Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #7

[Lilibet]

I’m thinking about my own tender feet. Even as a kid I could not tolerate going barefoot except on sand or soft ground. I used to spend summers near a river and it was difficult for me to go into the water and walk on the small rocks on the bottom. I never was able to walk on a trail barefoot. I never understood how other kids could just run around everywhere barefoot. They would say I needed to just “toughen up” the soles of my feet...but how? It hurt!

If I couldn’t walk on that terrain barefoot but with good balance, I have trouble imagining Nora walking outside their cottage barefoot and getting too far. I don’t think she would even get outside the resort compound without being in pain and just sitting down. I don’t think she could have walked far enough barefoot to get lost in the forest and keep wandering, let alone get to the spot where she died. The condition of her feet doesn’t indicate that she did all that.
JMO

 

[AnnesCuthberts]

I really don’t know what to think. I’m entirely flummoxed. I’ve always leaned towards Nora went out herself but I still have so many questions and it doesn’t feel like there’s any ‘easy’ answers to this. I’m with you @Lilibet - in my mind I’m a hippy dippy ground nature earth loving barefoot lady but I’ve never, ever been able to tolerate being barefoot outside. The feeling of the ground! Yuck! I don’t think I could manage that walk at all.

 

[Auntie_Seagull]

Both were perforated..... many perforations.

I employed google to clear the issue. Nora's duodenum, the first part of the small intestine that is connected to the stomach, was perforated due to ulceration. That, of course, caused inflammation of the peritoneum, the membrane that lines the abdominal cavity. Peritoneal ulcer perforation is very painful and any movement can worsen the pain. How was she able to walk in this condition?

 

[Alyce]

In short, sounds like inconclusive still? No signs of attack (but dna may have washed away). Injuries consistent with the jungle. Ulcers suggest severe stress level, poor girl.

Completely agree. Sadly I don't think the family will find the answers they are looking for.

 

[Chiatos]

Today's hearing: two policemen.
The first only spoke in Malaysian and mentioned the master bedroom and balcony several times.

The second police man spoke mostly in Malaysian. CCTV of the Quoirins at the airport was shown (small images), in which is to be understood that Nora could keep up fairly well with the rest of the family.
Cross examination by the family's lawyer was done in English.
The concept of "Nora could not walk for more than 20 feet/yards/meters (can't remember)", was underlined by the Quoirin's lawyer. Nora could walk on levelled ground, but not long distances and unaccompanied on rugged surfaces.

 

[Chiatos]

I employed google to clear the issue. Nora's duodenum, the first part of the small intestine that is connected to the stomach, was perforated due to ulceration. That, of course, caused inflammation of the peritoneum, the membrane that lines the abdominal cavity. Peritoneal ulcer perforation is very painful and any movement can worsen the pain. How was she able to walk in this condition?

I can imagine an excruciating pain.
Why has this not been questioned in court?

 

[seasideForest]

Long-time lurker here.

There's a photo of Nora with her siblings and mother and a man which shows Nora taller than her sister so not really small. Scroll fairly low down. 'Our hearts are breaking' - family of missing teen Nora Quoirin offer cash reward for information

A few weeks ago I found a photo of Nora with her family, taken after the brother's First Communion. It was stated that was the last photo taken of the family together, a few months before she went missing I think. That year anyway. I can't find it now though.

I know there has been a certain amount of discussion about what the Head Teacher in Nora's school said and also about how disabled Nora really was. His description made a lot of sense to me. She sounded very disabled to me -physically, mentally, emotionally. I was really struck in the second interview with him that he said she didn't understand the concept of 'yesterday'. I teach some slow-learner children one-on-one and they have quite a lot of problems intellectually but not like that.

Having done some work with disabled children, I thought his insistence that yes Nora could ride a bike but only under certain circumstances and that yes she was on a sports team (basketball?) but that didn't mean too much (paraphrase) was meaningful. In my experience you have to really explain to people what a disability is like. I didn't notice for weeks that one of my students had balance problems. I'm self-taught so I have no professional qualifications or background.

The only part of his testimony that I found a bit strange was his claim that waist height on an adult (the window) would be chest height on Nora. I couldn't see that in the photos I mention above. Did he have a picture of her in his head from when she was younger?

Whatever happened exactly, poor Nora.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Long-time lurker here.

There's a photo of Nora with her siblings and mother and a man which shows Nora taller than her sister so not really small. Scroll fairly low down. 'Our hearts are breaking' - family of missing teen Nora Quoirin offer cash reward for information

Welcome to the convo seaside

 

[seasideForest]

Thank you HongKongPhooey

 

[Cherwell]

There's a photo of Nora with her siblings and mother and a man which shows Nora taller than her sister so not really small. Scroll fairly low down. 'Our hearts are breaking' - family of missing teen Nora Quoirin offer cash reward for information ................

..............The only part of his testimony that I found a bit strange was his claim that waist height on an adult (the window) would be chest height on Nora. I couldn't see that in the photos I mention above.

Yes, it's clearly nonsense. She's barely a head shorter than her mother, and about shoulder height to her father.

 

[seasideForest]

Here's the First Communion photo (scroll down): A year after Nóra Quoirin’s body was found, her parents still believe she was abducted

 

[Cascadia Mount]

Long-time lurker here.

There's a photo of Nora with her siblings and mother and a man which shows Nora taller than her sister so not really small. Scroll fairly low down. 'Our hearts are breaking' - family of missing teen Nora Quoirin offer cash reward for information

A few weeks ago I found a photo of Nora with her family, taken after the brother's First Communion. It was stated that was the last photo taken of the family together, a few months before she went missing I think. That year anyway. I can't find it now though.

I know there has been a certain amount of discussion about what the Head Teacher in Nora's school said and also about how disabled Nora really was. His description made a lot of sense to me. She sounded very disabled to me -physically, mentally, emotionally. I was really struck in the second interview with him that he said she didn't understand the concept of 'yesterday'. I teach some slow-learner children one-on-one and they have quite a lot of problems intellectually but not like that.

Having done some work with disabled children, I thought his insistence that yes Nora could ride a bike but only under certain circumstances and that yes she was on a sports team (basketball?) but that didn't mean too much (paraphrase) was meaningful. In my experience you have to really explain to people what a disability is like. I didn't notice for weeks that one of my students had balance problems. I'm self-taught so I have no professional qualifications or background.

The only part of his testimony that I found a bit strange was his claim that waist height on an adult (the window) would be chest height on Nora. I couldn't see that in the photos I mention above. Did he have a picture of her in his head from when she was younger?

Whatever happened exactly, poor Nora.

I think the basketball team would be very hard to explain cross culturally but at a school for disabled children it would mean something different for each of them. Just standing on the court, maybe throwing the ball a few times could be considered being on the team. It would have been about participation and socialization in a way Nora was capable of--not that she was really playing basketball.

 

[Chiatos]

Here's the First Communion photo (scroll down): A year after Nóra Quoirin’s body was found, her parents still believe she was abducted

According to the Malaysian postmortem report, no organisms from the water in the specific stream where Nóra was found were present in her body.
This is a red flag too.

 

[Chiatos]

Long-time lurker here.

There's a photo of Nora with her siblings and mother and a man which shows Nora taller than her sister so not really small. Scroll fairly low down. 'Our hearts are breaking' - family of missing teen Nora Quoirin offer cash reward for information

A few weeks ago I found a photo of Nora with her family, taken after the brother's First Communion. It was stated that was the last photo taken of the family together, a few months before she went missing I think. That year anyway. I can't find it now though.

I know there has been a certain amount of discussion about what the Head Teacher in Nora's school said and also about how disabled Nora really was. His description made a lot of sense to me. She sounded very disabled to me -physically, mentally, emotionally. I was really struck in the second interview with him that he said she didn't understand the concept of 'yesterday'. I teach some slow-learner children one-on-one and they have quite a lot of problems intellectually but not like that.

Having done some work with disabled children, I thought his insistence that yes Nora could ride a bike but only under certain circumstances and that yes she was on a sports team (basketball?) but that didn't mean too much (paraphrase) was meaningful. In my experience you have to really explain to people what a disability is like. I didn't notice for weeks that one of my students had balance problems. I'm self-taught so I have no professional qualifications or background.

The only part of his testimony that I found a bit strange was his claim that waist height on an adult (the window) would be chest height on Nora. I couldn't see that in the photos I mention above. Did he have a picture of her in his head from when she was younger?

Whatever happened exactly, poor Nora.

The window is higher from the ground on the outside than it is on the inside of the house.
Could be waist height or perhaps thigh height. Meabh mentioned waist height. Either height would have caused Nora to fall out of the window and to get hurt, according to the parents and mr. Michael.

 

[Cherwell]

Here's the First Communion photo (scroll down): A year after Nóra Quoirin’s body was found, her parents still believe she was abducted

Thanks. Not quite as informative as the other picture as we can't see how they are standing - for instance the parents look a similar height to each other, whereas father looks taller in the first photo. But certainly Nora looks to be a normal height for a teenager, certainly not especially small.

 

[Ardoch]

Nóra Quoirin: Male DNA found on cigarette butts near body

 

[Chiatos]

Nóra Quoirin: Male DNA found on cigarette butts near body

I'll read the article later on.

Meanwhile: I have tried to follow the hearing of today. Again all in Malaysian. Now and then some English words in between.
As from 1:09:00 the Coroner said: "Both of you, ... are both of you satisfied ...the sole reason of the cause of the death ... the element, young criminal element ... which lead to that cause of death, ok, .....now .... you rule out one young criminal element..."

 

[Chiatos]

I have no idea what has been discussed, but these were the only large exhibits that I have been able to capture:

As far as I know, no cross examination by Louise today. A pity, because she would have done it in English.

 

[kittythehare]

Nora Anne Quoirin inquest: Witness says family’s insistence on abduction theory not meant to mislead investigators | Malay Mail

 

[kittythehare]

Thanks. Not quite as informative as the other picture as we can't see how they are standing - for instance the parents look a similar height to each other, whereas father looks taller in the first photo. But certainly Nora looks to be a normal height for a teenager, certainly not especially small.

Are you searching for her height?
She was 5 ft 1 apparently according to an early Irish Times article.
But if you want to double check, both pathologists measured her height in the course of their autopsies, both linked above.