Manorville Bodies: A Second Killer? Latest Remains found 02/17/2012

[the quiet girl]

Sorry, I really took a little time off ...
A little clarification:

In psychology you learn basically the mechanisms of a normal mind, in other words, the patterns that imprint the majority of mankind. But if you try to figure out a serial killer, some of thoe patterns just don't work the same way because most of them are pretty damaged. Half of the reason, why they are SKs are, that some or most of the normal patterns are destroyed or neve developed.
So, essentially:
You learn patterns of sane or halfway sane persons in psychology
but
Those guys are in most cases not even near to halfway sane

Thus the trick is to figure, what such a sick guy would think about a subject to get ahead of him.

That bbm is not correct, I had taken several psychology courses as it was to be my minor in college. I loved my Abnormal Psychology course for instance. You study everything. Just wanted to throw that out there and god its been years...

 

[Peter Brendt]

Would that be a real life Hannibal Lectur?

Naah, just another kind of crazy sicko. But I bet, he would like the comparison

 

[Peter Brendt]

So it looks like the earliest body is from 1997, only one of the four found in that area have been identified. Taylor has been identified through the reconstruction of a tattoo but her head and hands were missing. Another woman, Doe 6, found in the same area was missing hands and a foot. The thought was that the foot had a tattoo and that the killer wanted to hinder identification of the body. It actually looks like his earliest bodies were cut up into plastic bags that turned up in the water. Taylor was found lying on plastic but missing body parts. Her body parts were found associated with four women wrapped in burlap ... not plastic.

This sounds like one person to me.

Different victimology, different signature, different psycho-pathology, different ways to drop the bodies, all they have in common is, they were in roughly the same area.
And I still doubt, the heads and limbs were all the time out there, they are in a too good state to have been there for 11 respectively 8 years. Especially for Jane Doe 6, we can use the GB4 as reference. From Maureen Brainard Barnes, we have skeletal remains after just 3 years out there, but from Jae Doe 6 after 11 years, we have enough to talk about scars and painted toenails. This andicates, the limbs and the head of Jessica Taylor and Jane Doe 6 were dropped out there only, after the media frenzy set it. Which in consequence would indicate already some dynamic between Manorville and LISK.
So, sounds NOT like one person to me.
The only funny thing is, that any garden variety SK who crossed the path of such a staging dismemberer like Mv, had a sudden and abrupt end of his series. So, there is some chance, Manorville would go after LISK himself.

 

[Peter Brendt]

It's great to see you Otto. Your one person idea sounds plausible to me looking at the length of time between the first and last killings, '97 to '10 if that is correct.

Don't you think it is about time for LE to hold a presser? It seems like they are not trying to pull info from the public which is odd. I know it is a delicate investigation as the case has to be perfect before any warrants are pulled on him. I have seen so many cases where LE still kept in touch w/ the public and were still guarded in what they said. ;}

Well, since LE only rarely caught any SK without the public help, it would be better for them, to connect with said public as far as they can. Question is, are they bright enough to recognize that?

 

[truthspider]

It sounds like the Manorville area was the original dumping ground, but there was some concern about having a couple of the bodies identified, probably because they clearly linked back to the killer, so he took the identifying body parts (hands, head) and put them in another location.

His original dumping ground is the JFK Wildlife Sanctuary on Jones Island:

"The least known part of Jones Island is located just 1.9 miles east of Jones Beach State Park. JFKWildlife Sanctuary occupies about 550 acres and has a large pond, maritime thickets, marshes and bay shores."
http://www.estuary.cog.ny.us/nrag/site20a.html

The earliest victim we know of is Jane Doe 9098 whose skull was found near Gugenheim Pond within the sanctuary on Monday April 11th, 2011, which was almost 15 years to the day after her legs were found at Blue Point Beach:
"A Suffolk police officer and a cadaver dog in the dense brush of a wildlife sanctuary at Tobay Beach found the 10th set of remains -- a human skull sitting on the surface of the sand. This skull was connected to remains found on Fire Island in 1996." -Newsday

Her legs floated up on the bay side of Blue Point Beach in early 1996. The legs were found shortly after 7pm, Saturday the 20th of April, 1996. There isn't a doubt in my mind that her legs were buried back in this sanctuary with her skull and the rest of her remains which have yet to be found. The Nor Easter of 96, January 6-8th, and it's historic flooding of Jones Island likely unearthed the skull and the legs in a plastic bag which floated down to Blue Point Beach. This same flooding is probably the reason the skull was sitting on top of the sand with a root growing through it. He may have buried her in the sand, or weighted down the bags to the bottom of one of the canals, never thinking forward to the hurricanes and nor easters that would flood and erode the area causing the remains to float up and become visible. I believe today the rest of her remains are still buried, are underwater, or are entangled in the growth within the JFK Wildlife Sanctuary.

I suspect in hindsight this storm will turn the perps love affair with Mother Nature into a love hate relationship. I think we can safely assume this perp already had mixed feelings about his own mother, and now mother nature doesn't care for this man.

The pictures attached show the sandy beach road that traverses the sanctuary, this road is accessible by vehicle. I would be interested to see the list of people who purchased permits to enter this sanctuary between 1991 - 1995. Jane Doe 9098 was buried in here as late as December of 1995 but possibly earlier, decomposition of the legs could help approximate. "A free one-year permit is required to visit the sanctuary. Obtain it from the Town of Oyster Bay Department of Parks at (516) 797-4111, 977 Hicksville Road, Massapequa, NY 11758."

This sanctuary is a gem and if you are a lover of parks and wildlife and live on Jones Island you certainly know it, cph's family and their love of parks and their employment with the parks service has no doubt put him in this bird sanctuary on multiple occassions. CPH moved to Oak Beach on Jones Island in 1991.

 

[snowstar]

All what he said, was planned, not result of rage. This is a definitve discrepancy to the impression, he was drunk. He was too precise. And he described, but then if those descriptions included torture, are really torture marks on the remains?
What made me think a long time ago is thie "Do you think ... no, I killed her" line. This is domination behavior, master over life and death, master over giving and taking attitude. So by his words, he sounds psychopath, but by the way, he uses them, he sounds more mission-driven. Precise, planned and always with a purpose.

I think he has domination behavior too. That might be why he chooses petite women, easier to control/dominate. I also think he's precise and calculating.

 

[snowstar]

His original dumping ground is the JFK Wildlife Sanctuary on Jones Island:

"The least known part of Jones Island is located just 1.9 miles east of Jones Beach State Park. JFKWildlife Sanctuary occupies about 550 acres and has a large pond, maritime thickets, marshes and bay shores."
http://www.estuary.cog.ny.us/nrag/site20a.html

The earliest victim we know of is Jane Doe 9098 whose skull was found near Gugenheim Pond within the sanctuary on Monday April 11th, 2011, which was almost 15 years to the day after her legs were found at Blue Point Beach:
"A Suffolk police officer and a cadaver dog in the dense brush of a wildlife sanctuary at Tobay Beach found the 10th set of remains -- a human skull sitting on the surface of the sand. This skull was connected to remains found on Fire Island in 1996." -Newsday

Her legs floated up on the bay side of Blue Point Beach in early 1996. The legs were found shortly after 7pm, Saturday the 20th of April, 1996. There isn't a doubt in my mind that her legs were buried back in this sanctuary with her skull and the rest of her remains which have yet to be found. The Nor Easter of 96, January 6-8th, and it's historic flooding of Jones Island likely unearthed the skull and the legs in a plastic bag which floated down to Blue Point Beach. This same flooding is probably the reason the skull was sitting on top of the sand with a root growing through it. He may have buried her in the sand, or weighted down the bags to the bottom of one of the canals, never thinking forward to the hurricanes and nor easters that would flood and erode the area causing the remains to float up and become visible. I believe today the rest of her remains are still buried, are underwater, or are entangled in the growth within the JFK Wildlife Sanctuary.

I suspect in hindsight this storm will turn the perps love affair with Mother Nature into a love hate relationship. I think we can safely assume this perp already had mixed feelings about his own mother, and now mother nature doesn't care for this man.

The pictures attached show the sandy beach road that traverses the sanctuary, this road is accessible by vehicle. I would be interested to see the list of people who purchased permits to enter this sanctuary between 1991 - 1995. Jane Doe 9098 was buried in here as late as December of 1995 but possibly earlier, decomposition of the legs could help approximate. "A free one-year permit is required to visit the sanctuary. Obtain it from the Town of Oyster Bay Department of Parks at (516) 797-4111, 977 Hicksville Road, Massapequa, NY 11758."

This sanctuary is a gem and if you are a lover of parks and wildlife and live on Jones Island you certainly know it, cph's family and their love of parks and their employment with the parks service has no doubt put him in this bird sanctuary on multiple occassions. CPH moved to Oak Beach on Jones Island in 1991.

I'm not a local so this gives me a better understanding of the area where these remains were found. Thanks!

 

[snapdragon2]

His original dumping ground is the JFK Wildlife Sanctuary on Jones Island:

"The least known part of Jones Island is located just 1.9 miles east of Jones Beach State Park. JFKWildlife Sanctuary occupies about 550 acres and has a large pond, maritime thickets, marshes and bay shores."
http://www.estuary.cog.ny.us/nrag/site20a.html

The earliest victim we know of is Jane Doe 9098 whose skull was found near Gugenheim Pond within the sanctuary on Monday April 11th, 2011, which was almost 15 years to the day after her legs were found at Blue Point Beach:
"A Suffolk police officer and a cadaver dog in the dense brush of a wildlife sanctuary at Tobay Beach found the 10th set of remains -- a human skull sitting on the surface of the sand. This skull was connected to remains found on Fire Island in 1996." -Newsday

Her legs floated up on the bay side of Blue Point Beach in early 1996. The legs were found shortly after 7pm, Saturday the 20th of April, 1996. There isn't a doubt in my mind that her legs were buried back in this sanctuary with her skull and the rest of her remains which have yet to be found. The Nor Easter of 96, January 6-8th, and it's historic flooding of Jones Island likely unearthed the skull and the legs in a plastic bag which floated down to Blue Point Beach. This same flooding is probably the reason the skull was sitting on top of the sand with a root growing through it. He may have buried her in the sand, or weighted down the bags to the bottom of one of the canals, never thinking forward to the hurricanes and nor easters that would flood and erode the area causing the remains to float up and become visible. I believe today the rest of her remains are still buried, are underwater, or are entangled in the growth within the JFK Wildlife Sanctuary.

I suspect in hindsight this storm will turn the perps love affair with Mother Nature into a love hate relationship. I think we can safely assume this perp already had mixed feelings about his own mother, and now mother nature doesn't care for this man.

The pictures attached show the sandy beach road that traverses the sanctuary, this road is accessible by vehicle. I would be interested to see the list of people who purchased permits to enter this sanctuary between 1991 - 1995. Jane Doe 9098 was buried in here as late as December of 1995 but possibly earlier, decomposition of the legs could help approximate. "A free one-year permit is required to visit the sanctuary. Obtain it from the Town of Oyster Bay Department of Parks at (516) 797-4111, 977 Hicksville Road, Massapequa, NY 11758."

This sanctuary is a gem and if you are a lover of parks and wildlife and live on Jones Island you certainly know it, cph's family and their love of parks and their employment with the parks service has no doubt put him in this bird sanctuary on multiple occassions. CPH moved to Oak Beach on Jones Island in 1991.

Hey Truthspider,

Since you are familiar with this area I thought I'd ask you about this - about a decade ago I rented a place on Oak Island for a week. My understanding is Oak Island is the little island right near the Oak beach community - it's just north and a little to the west. It's only accessible by boat. There are cottages along the south shore of it, but the rest of it is all marshland and I think protected land. I was told there are all sorts of protected bird species that nest out there. Anyhow, when all this started going down it freaked me out to think how close I was staying to all this and the Oak Beach community. But on the Google Maps it is not identified as Oak Island. "Oak Island" on that map is identified as being further west.

Obviously there's nothing to tie what I call Oak Island to the LISK, but the proximity to Oak beach just makes me wonder if LE flew over that area or ever checked that area out.

I was wondering if you are familiar with Oak Island at all, and if you knew why it wasn't called that on the map - that IS in fact it's name, right?! (The person renting to me called it that, as did the neighbours!)

(By the way, the week I was there, which was in the month of September, it rained one day like crazy and the land behind the cottage, which had been dry, overnight became like a lake. It was quite astonishing. But just as quickly it receded and was gone when the nice weather came back. That just makes me wonder how "deep" the water was (in the area in which Shannan was eventually found) on the night she disappeared - and in fact if it was "deep" at all - since it hadn't rained in awhile. Or perhaps one can't compare the two areas?)

Thanks!

 

[Dwntwnslim]

That is not rage, that sounds to me more like domination behavior. Overcompensation for perceived flaws or inferiority. That would fit a racist or a reverse-racist as well. But it would be better to have complete transcripts to estimate this. This guy is pretty bright and to a degree educated or self-educated. I read in other articles something, he made references to Melissa's lifestyle in general? And about the sister's?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "reverse racist". Could you clarify?

 

[Dwntwnslim]

All what he said, was planned, not result of rage. This is a definitve discrepancy to the impression, he was drunk. He was too precise. And he described, but then if those descriptions included torture, are really torture marks on the remains?
What made me think a long time ago is thie "Do you think ... no, I killed her" line. This is domination behavior, master over life and death, master over giving and taking attitude. So by his words, he sounds psychopath, but by the way, he uses them, he sounds more mission-driven. Precise, planned and always with a purpose.

"All what he said, was planned, not result of rage. This is a definitve dispcrepancy to the impression, he was drunk."


I had never realized that before. Excellent point! Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[Just K]

His original dumping ground is the JFK Wildlife Sanctuary on Jones Island:

"The least known part of Jones Island is located just 1.9 miles east of Jones Beach State Park. JFKWildlife Sanctuary occupies about 550 acres and has a large pond, maritime thickets, marshes and bay shores."
http://www.estuary.cog.ny.us/nrag/site20a.html

The earliest victim we know of is Jane Doe 9098 whose skull was found near Gugenheim Pond within the sanctuary on Monday April 11th, 2011, which was almost 15 years to the day after her legs were found at Blue Point Beach:
"A Suffolk police officer and a cadaver dog in the dense brush of a wildlife sanctuary at Tobay Beach found the 10th set of remains -- a human skull sitting on the surface of the sand. This skull was connected to remains found on Fire Island in 1996." -Newsday

Her legs floated up on the bay side of Blue Point Beach in early 1996. The legs were found shortly after 7pm, Saturday the 20th of April, 1996. There isn't a doubt in my mind that her legs were buried back in this sanctuary with her skull and the rest of her remains which have yet to be found. The Nor Easter of 96, January 6-8th, and it's historic flooding of Jones Island likely unearthed the skull and the legs in a plastic bag which floated down to Blue Point Beach. This same flooding is probably the reason the skull was sitting on top of the sand with a root growing through it. He may have buried her in the sand, or weighted down the bags to the bottom of one of the canals, never thinking forward to the hurricanes and nor easters that would flood and erode the area causing the remains to float up and become visible. I believe today the rest of her remains are still buried, are underwater, or are entangled in the growth within the JFK Wildlife Sanctuary.

I suspect in hindsight this storm will turn the perps love affair with Mother Nature into a love hate relationship. I think we can safely assume this perp already had mixed feelings about his own mother, and now mother nature doesn't care for this man.

The pictures attached show the sandy beach road that traverses the sanctuary, this road is accessible by vehicle. I would be interested to see the list of people who purchased permits to enter this sanctuary between 1991 - 1995. Jane Doe 9098 was buried in here as late as December of 1995 but possibly earlier, decomposition of the legs could help approximate. "A free one-year permit is required to visit the sanctuary. Obtain it from the Town of Oyster Bay Department of Parks at (516) 797-4111, 977 Hicksville Road, Massapequa, NY 11758."

This sanctuary is a gem and if you are a lover of parks and wildlife and live on Jones Island you certainly know it, cph's family and their love of parks and their employment with the parks service has no doubt put him in this bird sanctuary on multiple occassions. CPH moved to Oak Beach on Jones Island in 1991.

But, you wouldn't need a pass if you worked there or someone you know or share a vehicle with had a pass or worked there or for the Park Service, specifically.

 

[snowstar]

But, you wouldn't need a pass if you worked there or someone you know or share a vehicle with had a pass or worked there or for the Park Service, specifically.

That's a good point. I hope they went through the list of permits that were issued and checked the park service employees.

 

[the quiet girl]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "reverse racist". Could you clarify?

I was thinking he meant like reverse discrimination?
I cant put words in his mouth thou.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "reverse racist". Could you clarify?

"Racist" in our current politcal correct language is used for a white who hates blacks. "Reverse-Racist" is a black, who hates whites, either for self-perceived inferiority (which normally doesn't exist in reality) or due to ingrained subcultural imprint (the famous "it's all whitey's fault).
Basically, same thing, just a tupid hating other people because of skin-color, only the direction is reversed. Therefore "Reverse-Racist".

 

[Peter Brendt]

I was thinking he meant like reverse discrimination?
I cant put words in his mouth thou.

But you were right. Only it's a complex social probelm behind it. But since I have a degree in political incorrectness, I take the freedom to speak it out :floorlaugh:

 

[truthspider]

But, you wouldn't need a pass if you worked there or someone you know or share a vehicle with had a pass or worked there or for the Park Service, specifically.

you dont need anything to get in, i pulled in at 3pm today, no one around to stop me. it's open and accessible from 3 points at all times.

the west entrance is for utility trucks and is always open, are you listening Atlantic City and Manorville? a Service Road. Jane Doe #10 was discarded inside this utility road.

 

[the quiet girl]

Did you use the periscope?

lease:

 

[truthspider]

Hey Truthspider,

Since you are familiar with this area I thought I'd ask you about this - about a decade ago I rented a place on Oak Island for a week. My understanding is Oak Island is the little island right near the Oak beach community - it's just north and a little to the west. It's only accessible by boat. There are cottages along the south shore of it, but the rest of it is all marshland and I think protected land. I was told there are all sorts of protected bird species that nest out there. Anyhow, when all this started going down it freaked me out to think how close I was staying to all this and the Oak Beach community. But on the Google Maps it is not identified as Oak Island. "Oak Island" on that map is identified as being further west.

Obviously there's nothing to tie what I call Oak Island to the LISK, but the proximity to Oak beach just makes me wonder if LE flew over that area or ever checked that area out.

I was wondering if you are familiar with Oak Island at all, and if you knew why it wasn't called that on the map - that IS in fact it's name, right?! (The person renting to me called it that, as did the neighbours!)

(By the way, the week I was there, which was in the month of September, it rained one day like crazy and the land behind the cottage, which had been dry, overnight became like a lake. It was quite astonishing. But just as quickly it receded and was gone when the nice weather came back. That just makes me wonder how "deep" the water was (in the area in which Shannan was eventually found) on the night she disappeared - and in fact if it was "deep" at all - since it hadn't rained in awhile. Or perhaps one can't compare the two areas?)

Thanks!

I believe you stayed here... google maps is labeled via algo not a person, hence the error.

(By the way ..... she was murdered)

 

[truthspider]

Did you use the periscope?

lease:

nope, car and cellphone

 

[Bellaneph]

Different victimology, different signature, different psycho-pathology, different ways to drop the bodies, all they have in common is, they were in roughly the same area.
And I still doubt, the heads and limbs were all the time out there, they are in a too good state to have been there for 11 respectively 8 years. Especially for Jane Doe 6, we can use the GB4 as reference. From Maureen Brainard Barnes, we have skeletal remains after just 3 years out there, but from Jae Doe 6 after 11 years, we have enough to talk about scars and painted toenails. This andicates, the limbs and the head of Jessica Taylor and Jane Doe 6 were dropped out there only, after the media frenzy set it. Which in consequence would indicate already some dynamic between Manorville and LISK.
So, sounds NOT like one person to me.
The only funny thing is, that any garden variety SK who crossed the path of such a staging dismemberer like Mv, had a sudden and abrupt end of his series. So, there is some chance, Manorville would go after LISK himself.

Ya, Peter, I was thinking that too. If you saw my earlier post about the Manorville sk in a sort of competition with LISK in reference to why he would put the body parts there. It reminds me of how Red John Killed James Panzer in The Mentalist. Maybe that's what he is thinking about doing.