Found Deceased ME - Kristin Westra, 47, North Yarmouth, 30 Sept 2018

[Gardenista]

So I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around the suicide as COD. maybe it's like the first time I heard about a woman who claimed Bill Cosby assaulted her dozens of years ago. My brain just did not want to compute that. I wanted to believe the woman was in it for money or revenge or something. Slowly I was able to let go of the amazing man I and others had loved and accept that he was a sexual predator. Our brains really don't like their reality messed with.

Anyway to get back on topic I have some questions. I have been reading here for years. I have watched this scenario repeatedly when a woman went missing and the husband eventually reported her missing. She just left in the middle of the night or they had a fight and she walked away. Almost 100% of the time people are sitting on their hands waiting for the husband to be arrested. They are waiting for the house to be searched by LE and are upset if the spouse remains in the home without any checking. Often members are suspicious when the husband controls the narrative. Also when the husband isnt immeditely worried when perhaps we think he ought to be. This case, regardless of the final discovery, had all the red flags. So my question is this: why were so few folks suspicious? How was this case different? Why didnt LE ever seem to even question what the husband said or tape off the house for an initial search? Why did he get an immediate pass from almost everyone? I am curious. His complete control of the narrative sent my antenna up immediately. I don't know this woman, but I share her name, I live a life similar to her, and I cant wrap my head around the suicide (and yes I have far too much experience with suicide). Maybe it's the way her best friend spoke about her. Maybe she didn't want to air "dirty laundry", but the husband already did so there was no reason not to confirm that. I don't know. I will come around eventually or maybe someday we will hear that there are questions about her death. I hope not, but it has happened before.
Anyway, I am just rambling. I love that part of Maine. I love where she grew up in Vermont. I hope something good can come out of this. And I would love to hear your thoughts and answers.

Can't speak for others but, after hearing him speak, it was pure gut instinct for me. He seemed very credible.

 

[Peppery]

I personally didn’t see any red flags in this case. Especially after the video interview with her husband, I suspected this would be the unfortunate outcome.

 

[zecats]

So I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around the suicide as COD. maybe it's like the first time I heard about a woman who claimed Bill Cosby assaulted her dozens of years ago. My brain just did not want to compute that. I wanted to believe the woman was in it for money or revenge or something. Slowly I was able to let go of the amazing man I and others had loved and accept that he was a sexual predator. Our brains really don't like their reality messed with.

Anyway to get back on topic I have some questions. I have been reading here for years. I have watched this scenario repeatedly when a woman went missing and the husband eventually reported her missing. She just left in the middle of the night or they had a fight and she walked away. Almost 100% of the time people are sitting on their hands waiting for the husband to be arrested. They are waiting for the house to be searched by LE and are upset if the spouse remains in the home without any checking. Often members are suspicious when the husband controls the narrative. Also when the husband isnt immeditely worried when perhaps we think he ought to be. This case, regardless of the final discovery, had all the red flags. So my question is this: why were so few folks suspicious? How was this case different? Why didnt LE ever seem to even question what the husband said or tape off the house for an initial search? Why did he get an immediate pass from almost everyone? I am curious. His complete control of the narrative sent my antenna up immediately. I don't know this woman, but I share her name, I live a life similar to her, and I cant wrap my head around the suicide (and yes I have far too much experience with suicide). Maybe it's the way her best friend spoke about her. Maybe she didn't want to air "dirty laundry", but the husband already did so there was no reason not to confirm that. I don't know. I will come around eventually or maybe someday we will hear that there are questions about her death. I hope not, but it has happened before.
Anyway, I am just rambling. I love that part of Maine. I love where she grew up in Vermont. I hope something good can come out of this. And I would love to hear your thoughts and answers.

Who really knows how long this had been going on. Perhaps he had been dealing right along with Kristin with her depression. Perhaps she was bi-polar. Having had experience with scenarios where people behave in extremes myself, it does take a toll on the spouse and family as well as the individual. When he mentioned that this was the worst thing he had ever endured, that's where my brain went - that he's been dealing with this too for some time. Also possibly he's been keeping it a secret and now it's a bit of a relief to be able to express his emotions. jmo

 

[bellesnwhistles]

I lived with a suicidal spouse, day in and day out. Do not judge Jay or Krista until you’ve walked in those shoes. That is all.

TY for this. I feel awful for her husband. I feel guilty on a daily basis for what my partner goes through dealing with my anxiety issues, but he never complains.

 

[bellesnwhistles]

I personally didn’t see any red flags in this case. Especially after the video interview with her husband, I suspected this would be the unfortunate outcome.

TBH this was the first case I really had no suspicion of anything other than suicide

 

[SoBu]

So it sounds like some of you see this as a battle she had been fighting for much longer than we have evidence of and that she kept it from everyone but her husband? So sad any way the situation evolved. I personally feel that medications may have helped had she given them a try. By what her husband said, it sounds like she was overall against medications, so maybe she’d been resistant to going in that direction? It does sound like she valued the benefits of exercise and diet to mental health though, but had gotten out of the routine of exercise.

 

[Peppery]

So it sounds like some of you see this as a battle she had been fighting for much longer than we have evidence of and that she kept it from everyone but her husband? So sad any way the situation evolved. I personally feel that medications may have helped had she given them a try. By what her husband said, it sounds like she was overall against medications, so maybe she’d been resistant to going in that direction? It does sound like she valued the benefits of exercise and diet to mental health though, but had gotten out of the routine of exercise.

From experience within my own family, depression, anxiety, stress, etc, or whatever Kristin may have been dealing with take time to manifest and cause concern. She may have been dealing with her feelings for some time, but she or her husband or friends could easily attribute them to a new school year, renovations at home, renovations at work, or any other stress most of us face. I’d be surprised if she just recently began feeling off and her husband instantly jumped to asking her to talk to the NP.

From what little we know, it sounds like she had educated herself on self-care and was trying to alleviate her feelings by taking care of herself. Not everyone does or should jump to medication. And I’m very pro psychiatric care, I just know it’s not the best first step for everyone. Most psychotropic drugs take several weeks to build enough blood concentration to have any effect.

 

[DAMages]

Often members are suspicious when the husband controls the narrative. Also when the husband isnt immeditely worried when perhaps we think he ought to be. This case, regardless of the final discovery, had all the red flags. So my question is this: why were so few folks suspicious? How was this case different?

But he wasn't the only one controlling the narrative. For me, I wasn't suspicious in this case because we also had the perspective of the nurse practitioner friend who met with them the day of the disappearance, a fact which was confirmed by the police. Whether Kristin had an ongoing mental illness or just had not slept for days because of anxiety--and lack of sleep for several days can REALLY mess with your head--she was clearly having mental/behavioral changes that worried her and her husband. The NP/friend didn't contradict the husband's account that she was worried about her mental health and seeking help. That concern, confirmed by more than just the husband, was enough to push me toward thinking she may have harmed herself.

I lived for years with a bipolar and often suicidal spouse. He was also a teacher. He was VERY careful not to disclose his mental health issues to his colleagues, out of the concern that he'd lose his job, because people might think mental illness + children was a bad combination. And in fact, he was fired from one of his teaching jobs for concerns about his mental health. So perhaps that's a reason she didn't tell her teacher-friends about an ongoing issue, if there was one.

 

[floridamomma]

Damn.

 

[2manyhorses]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful answers. I did not read where the NP actually confirmed what the husband said. Quite frankly I don't see how she legally could due to HIPPA, but who knows.
I try not to make a judgement of responsibility based on a video interview, because i think some people are just better or worse at public speaking. Some are good story tellers. Some people are emotional, some aren't. so I mostly read the articles or transcripts. I really just found it curious as to how people came to their original suspicions or lack thereof. And I am so so sad for Kristin's husband, daughter, and stepson. My niece is growing up without her dad because of suicide.

 

[DAMages]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful answers. I did not read where the NP actually confirmed what the husband said. Quite frankly I don't see how she legally could due to HIPPA, but who knows.
I try not to make a judgement of responsibility based on a video interview, because i think some people are just better or worse at public speaking. Some are good story tellers. Some people are emotional, some aren't. so I mostly read the articles or transcripts. I really just found it curious as to how people came to their original suspicions or lack thereof. And I am so so sad for Kristin's husband, daughter, and stepson. My niece is growing up without her dad because of suicide.

I didn't say that the NP confirmed what the husband said, simply that the police had certainly followed up on this easily checkable story and no one ever contradicted that part of his account. One news story:

Missing Maine Teacher Was Sleepless, Stressed, Husband Says

Even says that one of the NPs she saw was her sister in law, so presumably she or another family member would have called if this never happened or if he had grossly misrepresented what was happening.

Earlier Sunday, she saw a nurse practitioner for a “safety assessment” and was judged “not at risk for any harm to herself or anybody else,” Jay Westra said. “She made plans with a nurse practitioner, her sister-in-law, to have the labs drawn on Monday.”​

Since the medical examiner has already ruled her death a suicide, I don't think we're going to learn that all of this was made up or false in any way. Anyhow, those details were what made me less suspicious.

 

[drama_farmer]

I will say this.

Not everyone who dies by suicide is "mentally ill", or "depressed" in the sense that there is a unifying definition of depression that we can apply to the experience of a distraught suicidal person, and there is no unifying cause for suicidal death. Suicide is often reflexive and can occur in an escalating perfect storm. There is nothing more hurtful or frankly offensive than hearing "How could he/she do that to his/her family/didn't he/she realize...", and it's frankly not even a relevant question. One way to think about it is, do we ask why the 9/11 jumpers didn't think of their family? Sometimes 'jumping' is the lesser bad option than letting the building burn with you in it, so to speak (not speaking for Kristin or others, just using the image to redirect from the 'how could they/why didn't they just get counseling' perceptions).

I personally don't ascribe to the idea that people who take their lives transfer their pain. Pain and despair and a sense of no further meaning (the building is rapidly burning and believed to soon be in ashes) cannot be transferred, and the traumatic outcome for loved ones is too deep and wide to articulate here. It's a stay in your lane kind of thing, no offense, but one of the most frustrating issues can be outsiders thinking they 'get' what this tragedy is about for any party involved.

Others looking in often think they know what they would or wouldn't do, or what could 'solve' such a crisis. To that I would say, they have not faced the particular degree of heat or utterly untenable circumstance that would ignite their building. And all humans have a place on the dial for the amount of heat and back to the wall, no way out scenario they can take. I offer these images and thoughts to perhaps lend some perspective in a situation that is still taboo and harshly judged. You can't think like someone whose tower is on fire in NYC if your house is at no risk in Kansas, nor can you think like the person who has to keep living after the tower is gone. You just can't. Not your fault.

My heart aches for her and for her family. This is just the beginning and I hope they find the right support because not everyone does.

FWIW

I usually respectfully snip longish posts for the sake of saving space but I couldn't bring myself to do it to your post.
The "tower jumpers" analogy is so appropriate in this case and a myriad of others that include reactions like "how could s/he do this to..... Fill in the blank. IMO.

And, I recall, in the aftermath of the towers falling, there were similar reactions to the" choice" to jump. I believe that in one case, a family preferred to believe that their loved one simply slipped and fell, perhaps feeling that their loved one's decision to escape the inescapable searing heat and smoke by jumping was somehow a cowardly act.

IMO, based on memories of the day and a documentary I watched about the subject. I think it was called The Falling Man.

 

[Cherry]

I hadn't reached the end of all posts and saw she had been recovered. Has any cause of death been released?

 

[Cherry]

I still cannot get to end of the thread! I really need to say that being 'seen' by a family member in a crisis mental health situ is negligent.
As discussed, most would lie to a family member if they have a plan. I really question why she was not seen by an ER doctor to assess what was flat out a plan in the making. My best friend committed suicide and I miss her daily. It has been years, her daughter had been hit by a mac truck and was seriously impaired. My other bff was electrocuted at work on the power lines. I miss him still.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I didn't say that the NP confirmed what the husband said, simply that the police had certainly followed up on this easily checkable story and no one ever contradicted that part of his account. One news story:

Missing Maine Teacher Was Sleepless, Stressed, Husband Says

Even says that one of the NPs she saw was her sister in law, so presumably she or another family member would have called ******** if this never happened or if he had grossly misrepresented what was happening.

Earlier Sunday, she saw a nurse practitioner for a “safety assessment” and was judged “not at risk for any harm to herself or anybody else,” Jay Westra said. “She made plans with a nurse practitioner, her sister-in-law, to have the labs drawn on Monday.”​

Since the medical examiner has already ruled her death a suicide, I don't think we're going to learn that all of this was made up or false in any way. Anyhow, those details were what made me less suspicious.

Personally, as soon as I read that Kristin had had a “safety assessment” less than 24 hours before she disappeared, that was it for me.

Whether it was her husband or sister-in-law, clearly, someone thought she might have to go inpatien to ensure her safety.

During an impatient stay, one would likely have his/er medication adjusted, have individual therapy, and perhaps participate in group therapy (once stable enough), but most importantly, s/he will be in a setting where the primary objective is to prevent self-harm: Things like shoelaces and clothing with drawstrings (e.g., hoodies or sweatpants) are taken away, and one may be allowed to floss or shave but only with supervision. This level of protection just cannot be provided at home, IMO.

I hope that her sister-in-law doesn’t blame herself for not recommending inpatient treatment for Kristin. From personal experience, it isn’t terribly difficult to make it appear or sound as though you are not as ill as you appear (I admit I have done this before, though only to be admitted a few days later).

This is purely my personal opinion, and I am not talking about Kristin specifically, but in general, I dont think it is best to ask a family member for help in this kind of situation unless s/he already has intimate knowledge of what has been going on. Calling 911 or going to the ER is always an option, IMO, where one can be examined by a neutral third party.

Rest In Peace, Kristin. My prayers are with her loved ones, especially her husband, children and brother.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I hadn't reached the end of all posts and saw she had been recovered. Has any cause of death been released?

No. Only the manner of death - suicide. Since the medical examiner did not have to wait on toxicology to make such a determination there was something obvious in the autopsy consistent with the circumstances of where she was located and the condition she was found in and any items found where she was found. I don't think we will ever learn the cause of death.

 

[CTPDMom]

Personally, as soon as I read that Kristin had had a “safety assessment” less than 24 hours before she disappeared, that was it for me.

Whether it was her husband or sister-in-law, clearly, someone thought she might have to go inpatien to ensure her safety.

During an impatient stay, one would likely have his/er medication adjusted, have individual therapy, and perhaps participate in group therapy (once stable enough), but most importantly, s/he will be in a setting where the primary objective is to prevent self-harm: Things like shoelaces and clothing with drawstrings (e.g., hoodies or sweatpants) are taken away, and one may be allowed to floss or shave but only with supervision. This level of protection just cannot be provided at home, IMO.

I hope that her sister-in-law doesn’t blame herself for not recommending inpatient treatment for Kristin. From personal experience, it isn’t terribly difficult to make it appear or sound as though you are not as ill as you appear (I admit I have done this before, though only to be admitted a few days later).

This is purely my personal opinion, and I am not talking about Kristin specifically, but in general, I dont think it is best to ask a family member for help in this kind of situation unless s/he already has intimate knowledge of what has been going on. Calling 911 or going to the ER is always an option, IMO, where one can be examined by a neutral third party.

Rest In Peace, Kristin. My prayers are with her loved ones, especially her husband, children and brother.

I'm not sure it was clear to them that she might need to be inpatient. We don't know whether it was situational or not, whatever was going on with her. If she did not have a diagnosed illness (such as bipolar) this could have very well been something situational. It's also possible she had a longstanding mental illness, that she was good at hiding/handling on her own.

I have experience with my own family member who made an unsuccessful suicide attempt. Never would I ever have imagined it. She did suffer from depression, mostly SAD, but never to the point of suicidality. But in a terrible situation, she reached that point. There were no warnings. It was only by happenstance that someone came upon her after she OD'd, and she was able to be saved.

I do believe that it is possible that she was having suicidal ideations, and would have easily been able to 'con' (for lack of a better work) her husband, the nurse, etc that she was good with the 'plan' and acted that way (See, I'm going for a run, I'm fine!) to the point that they backed off a little.

With regard to a generally stable person, with what appeared to be so much to live for, and a career that could very well be ruined by a 911 call for mental instability followed by an inpatient mental health stay, it would be VERY difficult for a family member to force the issue without being 100% certain. Very hard emotionally on them, I mean, on the 'reporter'. To have worries appeased by a professional who thinks their family member is ok for the moment, whose family member appears cooperative and compliant, would make it even easier to acquiesce.

If any of this is truly the case with Kristen, this will torture her husband for years to come. And he, along with their children, extended family and friends, remain in my prayers.

 

[sallye818]

I still cannot get to end of the thread! I really need to say that being 'seen' by a family member in a crisis mental health situ is negligent.
As discussed, most would lie to a family member if they have a plan. I really question why she was not seen by an ER doctor to assess what was flat out a plan in the making.

RSBM, inmyhumbleopinion, we need to remember that no one can force someone to go to the ER or a mental health provider if they choose not to. Kristin's husband and even her SIL the NP, no doubt would've taken her (or forced her) to go somewhere more urgent if she had spoken of suicide. But apparently, she didn't tell her plan to anyone in her family or the NP. No one could, at that point, have forced her to see an ER dr. Our family is going through this with a family member, who's addiction to opiates is causing bouts of depression & suicidal ideation, but he will not admit this to family members or professionals, making it a very touchy situation. Frankly, I'm scared for him daily but our hands are tied right now. It is frustrating and sad for family.

 

[sallye818]

Sorry, I should've replied to cherry in that previouse post. And CTPDmom you and I are on the same page.

 

[zecats]

I usually respectfully snip longish posts for the sake of saving space but I couldn't bring myself to do it to your post.
The "tower jumpers" analogy is so appropriate in this case and a myriad of others that include reactions like "how could s/he do this to..... Fill in the blank. IMO.

And, I recall, in the aftermath of the towers falling, there were similar reactions to the" choice" to jump. I believe that in one case, a family preferred to believe that their loved one simply slipped and fell, perhaps feeling that their loved one's decision to escape the inescapable searing heat and smoke by jumping was somehow a cowardly act.

IMO, based on memories of the day and a documentary I watched about the subject. I think it was called The Falling Man.

Yes it is The Falling Man. And I’ve seen many variations of the photos of that individual in free fall. His identity was thought to be known several times but in the end wasn’t conclusive. Truly emotionally moving photos, almost beautiful in their stillness. But also the horror of yeh realty.
I’m thinking something was obvious in the way Kristin was discovered that led to a suicide conclusion. Sad she wasn't able to get the help she needed.

 

[Alethea]

I'm sure the NP friend-of-the-family feels awful so I don't know how much there is to talk about. If she didn't think KW fit the parameters to be involuntarily committed, there is not much she could do. I think this is a tragedy all around for everyone involved.