Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

[otto]

Can you give a cite for this information? I'd be very interested to see this if it is indeed true.

What's with all the cite requests? Is everyone new to the case? looking to waste someone else's time while they search and post the links again ... four years into discussing the same evidence long after the links were posted?

It's true. One of the lying prisoners has capitulated and implicated the prisoner's lawyers. The Circus is On!

If you could please ask for a citation regarding a specific point, or clarify what kind of citation you're requesting, rather than responding to my comments with "gotta cite?" ... that would help.

I have provided links regarding defense witness Aviello who has admitted that he made an agreement with defense lawyers to lie in exchange for money. He was supposed to receive the money from Sollecito's sister and he was willing to lie because he was in love with Sollcito. He wanted the money so he could become a pretty girl.

 

[Sonata]

What's with all the cite requests? Is everyone new to the case? looking to waste someone else's time while they search and post the links again ... four years into discussing the same evidence long after the links were posted?

It's true. One of the lying prisoners has capitulated and implicated the prisoner's lawyers. The Circus is On!

If you could please ask for a citation regarding a specific point, or clarify what kind of citation you're requesting, rather than responding to my comments with "gotta cite?" ... that would help.

I have never seen reference to that amount of money or an itemised receipt for lingerie. Please can you link me to your source.

I am not new to the case. I have never seen this specific information. And I am concerned that your source might be from a tabloid such as the Sun which as a Brit I know is utterly, utterly unreliable and though popular is not taken seriously by any educated british citizen.

So if you don't mind I would like to check those facts.

 

[SMK]

Four years is long enough to begin to correct a confused memory, dream imagining and drug fueled murder. Do innocent people get weathered criminal looking expressions? Sollecito was described as a "hardened criminal" because he cut his hair, but I suspect it's written all over his face.

I don't think it would be a good idea to call a 25 year old professional, heterosexual male on the football team, or in the army, "pretty".

He looks boyish and smiling and musing to me. Almost little-boy like and innocent. How would he become a hardened criminal when he is in jail, committing no crimes? I actually think his looks have evolved in prison from scruffy Harry Potter to collegiate charm.....

 

[Sonata]

Four years is long enough to begin to correct a confused memory, dream imagining and drug fueled murder. Do innocent people get weathered criminal looking expressions? Sollecito was described as a "hardened criminal" because he cut his hair, but I suspect it's written all over his face.

I don't think it would be a good idea to call a 25 year old professional, heterosexual male on the football team, or in the army, "pretty".

Yes. Absolutely. Innocent people get weathered faces. Weathered faces are a sign off stress and negative life experiences not an indication of evil. Otherwise we could just run a legal system on that!

"Mrs. Pippington, you stand accused of murder. You're clearly guilty - just look at that brow! 26 years in jail!"

"But, but I was in hospital with kidney failure at the time of death!"

"Lies! You look weathered! You did the crime now do the time!"

With regards to the pretty issue - is Raf a footballer or in the army? If not why is this relevant? Also, those people can think what they want but any feminist (whether male or female) will tell you that's misogyny.

 

[Monzoo]

The evidence that was reviewed was the knife handle, knife blade and clasp. The DNA on the knife handle was confirmed as being correct. The DNA on the other two items is in question, but is not discredited. The defense has had their say regarding the report, the prosecution is yet to be heard. The decision is due Sept 5. The footprints are connected with Knox, evidence that was revealed with luminol. There is mixed DNA in the bathroom and in Filomina's bedroom that is not in question and has not been discredited.

You are not correct in saying that the dfense has had their say, Otto. The experts that testified on the 25th were Court-Appointed Independent Experts. Not members of the defense teams. The fact that their report happens to agree with the defense does not make them part of the defense. It means that the nuetral position coincides with the defense.

The defense teams will have a chance to question the independent experts on Saturday, as well.

 

[otto]

I have never seen reference to that amount of money or an itemised receipt for lingerie. Please can you link me to your source.

I am not new to the case. I have never seen this specific information. And I am concerned that your source might be from a tabloid such as the Sun which as a Brit I know is utterly, utterly unreliable and though popular is not taken seriously by any educated british citizen.

So if you don't mind I would like to check those facts.

Have you ever heard that the shop was called Bubble?

 

[SMK]

Have you ever heard that the shop was called Bubble?

Here is an article where "Bubble" shop is mentioned, with a discount bin where Knox bought pairs of panties. The article emphasizes the villianization of Knox by the press.

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/files/Radar_Knox.pdf

and here is a quote about it from another piece:

The next day (after the murder was discovered), Amanda and Raffaele went shopping at Bubble, a fashionable clothing store on Via Calderini. In its brightly lit window were an assortment of flashy skirts and shoes. There the couple purchased two pairs of thong underwear, at which point Carlo Scotto di Rinaldi, the store’s bi-lingual owner, tells me, they kissed and embraced, and Raffaele told Amanda, “ ‘We can have wild sex tonight!’ Sesso selvaggio.” As Amanda was only his second girlfriend, Raffaele was pretty new to sex in all of its forms, according to his voluble lawyer, Marco Brusco. “Selvaggio, he learned from her,” the lawyer says, raising his hands, while speculating on the number of Amanda’s previous lovers, which he believes to be unnaturally high. What can you expect? “È americana!”

All of the couple’s amorous behavior was caught on closed-circuit camera. The shop owner, taken aback when he recognized Amanda’s face on the local news, mentioned what he had seen to a friend on the police force. A few days later, police retrieved the tape and handed it over to Perugia’s deceptively mild prosecutor, Giuliano Mignini, whose position is roughly equivalent to that of a U.S. district attorney. Within days, the tape was released to the rest of the world. On television and Web sites everywhere, the couple’s passion over the thong underwear was played and replayed.

 

[otto]

Yes. Absolutely. Innocent people get weathered faces. Weathered faces are a sign off stress and negative life experiences not an indication of evil. Otherwise we could just run a legal system on that!

...

With regards to the pretty issue - is Raf a footballer or in the army? If not why is this relevant? Also, those people can think what they want but any feminist (whether male or female) will tell you that's misogyny.

So ... we wouldn't really be able to tell by looking at them whether they were hardened criminals, with a buzz cut, or innocenti worn by the experience?

Can you name one 25 year old football player in the world, or army conscript, that wants to be described as "pretty".

I agree that weathered twisted facial expression come from twisted minds, but innocent 25 year olds don't get twisted faces when they are innocenti.

 

[otto]

Here is an article where "Bubbles" shop is mentioned, with a discount bin where Knox bought pairs of panties. The article emphasizes the villianization of Knox by the press. http://www.friendsofamanda.org/files/Radar_Knox.pdf

Maybe Knox and Sollecito spent $82 on something from the discount bin (perhaps what Edda called the "second hand store"), but that doesn't change the fact that she bought one pair of panties to replace the underwear that she couldn't access after the cottage was deemed a crime scene. Knox suggested that she bought the underwear to replace her missing underwear, yet she bought one pair of panties to last her until when ??? She was wearing Sollecito's boxers the rest of the days.

 

[SMK]

So ... we wouldn't really be able to tell by looking at them whether they were hardened criminals, with a buzz cut, or innocenti worn by the experience?

Can you name one 25 year old football player in the world, or army conscript, that wants to be described as "pretty".

I agree that weathered twisted facial expression come from twisted minds, but innocent 25 year olds don't get twisted faces when they are innocenti.

Raff is a late Generation X edgey type, not some stuffy old army footballer. And yes, he is very , very pretty!:razz:

 

[SMK]

Maybe Knox and Sollecito spent $82 on something from the discount bin (perhaps what Edda called the "second hand store"), but that doesn't change the fact that she bought one pair of panties to replace the underwear that she couldn't access after the cottage was deemed a crime scene. Knox suggested that she bought the underwear to replace her missing underwear, yet she bought one pair of panties to last her until when ??? She was wearing Sollecito's boxers the rest of the days.

But none of this points to murder. Had they committed murder, they likely would have put on a show of piety and somberness.....

 

[SMK]

So ... we wouldn't really be able to tell by looking at them whether they were hardened criminals, with a buzz cut, or innocenti worn by the experience?

Can you name one 25 year old football player in the world, or army conscript, that wants to be described as "pretty".

I agree that weathered twisted facial expression come from twisted minds, but innocent 25 year olds don't get twisted faces when they are innocenti.

Maybe your face would twist too if you were wrongly accused, imprisoned, and had to go to many boring and scary court dates.

Looks like a normal kid to me::razz:

 

[Sonata]

Have you ever heard that the shop was called Bubble?

Yes that rings a bell.

 

[Sonata]

So ... we wouldn't really be able to tell by looking at them whether they were hardened criminals, with a buzz cut, or innocenti worn by the experience?

Can you name one 25 year old football player in the world, or army conscript, that wants to be described as "pretty".

I agree that weathered twisted facial expression come from twisted minds, but innocent 25 year olds don't get twisted faces when they are innocenti.

Your request is impossible to fulfil, not because such men do not exist but because data like lexical preferences of men in certain careers is simply not accessible that I know of.

I can think of many famous footballers who I doubt would be insulted by the term eg Beckham, Michael Owen (my knowledge of army men is rather small since they do not tend to reach celebrity status).

I can also give you many many cites that prove that women and men frequently use that terminology to describe attractive males if you wish. Since Raf is unlikely to be aware of our conversation, I would assume this would do?

I utterly disagree with you on the weathered faces. I cannot comprehend the notion that you can tell from a face whether wrongly incarcerated or not. Surely, if that is the case you could just go walk through a prison every 6 months and release all those who have 'innocent looking' faces. Do you agree with that as a civil procedure?

 

[Malkmus]

Have you ever heard that the shop was called Bubble?

Here is a Perugia website, listing Bubble at the bottom:

http://shopping.perugiaonline.com/c...nto&localita=tutte&ling=E&nv=30&prov=pag=1&p=

Trendy and traditional clothes.

There's a photo too. Looks like any regular Gap-type clothing shop.

 

[Malkmus]

What are you suggesting is a repeat from a tabloid?

Knox bought one pair of panties and claimed that she did it right after the murder because she couldn't access her things and needed underwear ... knowing that it would be some time before she had access to her things. She spent $82 on this one piece of underwear. Are you suggesting that this was all she needed for the next few days? Surely she knew that since her rental was a crime scene she wouldn't be going home for a while ... one $82 pair of underwear from the second hand shop to replace the underwear that she couldn't access in the next few days, weeks or months? That's a nice story, but not believable.

Actually, I believe it was a camisole top and underwear. Without an itemized receipt there's no way of knowing which was the more expensive item.

ETA: I see you knew this already...

 

[Malkmus]

What are you suggesting is a repeat from a tabloid?

Knox bought one pair of panties and claimed that she did it right after the murder because she couldn't access her things and needed underwear ... knowing that it would be some time before she had access to her things. She spent $82 on this one piece of underwear. Are you suggesting that this was all she needed for the next few days? Surely she knew that since her rental was a crime scene she wouldn't be going home for a while ... one $82 pair of underwear from the second hand shop to replace the underwear that she couldn't access in the next few days, weeks or months? That's a nice story, but not believable.

She spent 82 Euros on one camisole and one pair of panties at a shop called Bubble and she was overheard by the shopkeeper making sexual overtures with Sollecito while they were selecting the lingerie. How far was that supposed to take her ... to the next week? I read the article where Edda claimed that Knox bought underwear at a second hand shop and that it wasn't really lingerie or anything odd ... but it was odd, given the fact that her roommate had just been brutally murdered what ... the day before, two days before? Buying underwear at a second hand shop is odd too, but what happened was odd in a more serious way.
Might have been $82, but that's an awful lot of money to spend on one pair of panties with the excuse that she didn't have access to her things and needed underwear for the next 26 years.

A top and panties is not one piece of underwear.

 

[otto]

What about that mother's testimony that was pushed underground because she asked Knox why she called before anything happened and was told that her daugther lied about Patrick ... but neither mom nor Knox told authorities for two weeks ... until independent proof was given that Patrick was not involed in the murder.

Funny how the Dempsey blog and book says that Knox got the idea that accusing someone else meant she could walk out of the police station because she watched CSI TV

 

[otto]

A top and panties is not one piece of underwear.

Quite right. A camisole and panties is two pieces of underwear, but when it comes to panties, was Knox really spending $82 to replace the underwear that was locked in a crime scene?

Probably not ... esp., if she only bought one pair.

 

[otto]

Actually, I believe it was a camisole top and underwear. Without an itemized receipt there's no way of knowing which was the more expensive item.

ETA: I see you knew this already...

So should we discredit eye witness testimony because the receipt was not found on the floor of the car? Facts are that she was not replacing the confiscated underwear the day after she was released from questioning ... instead she was playining in the shops with Sollecito. So Sollecito and Knox were out of words when asked what they did after Meredith's murder ... other than buy sexy lingerie and flirt in the shop.