MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

[MimosaMornings]

How Teen Gunman’s Parents Ended Up Hiding Out in Local Artist’s Studio — The Daily Beast

“A closer look by The Daily Beast of footage from the arrests of the Crumbleys show the couple exiting a room with signage for Andrzej Sikora, a Polish-born, Detroit-based artist with connections to Oxford.

According to a news article in the Oxford Leader last month, Sikora finished a mural at Red Knapps American Grill, a bar just around the corner from the Crumbleys’ house. A picture accompanying the story indicated the photo of Sikora was taken by a “Jehn Crumbley,” a nickname Jennifer Crumbley, a realtor-turned-marketing director, has been known to go by professionally and socially. The article appeared to have been updated to remove the caption, but a WayBack Machine archive still featured it.”

 

[happyday]

Imagine how differently the day would have gone if a school official had simply asked “Ethan, would you open your backpack for us?”

I’m still so shocked that they didn’t do this. It’s so standard in high schools these days. Perhaps his parents were such pains in the you-know-what, and they were expecting him to be be taken home they were caught off guard and forgot? I suspect something like that happened, but who knows. I do appreciate how hard it must be for schools to deal with difficult parents in these times.

 

[ReadySet]

Did any of the parents who let their kids stay home that day call the school to tell them of the concern? If not, why not? If your kid is scared enough to stay home all day, you should let the school know.

As for evidence that this was a premeditated act, additional searching turned up msm reports that fully support the claim (my bolding):

According to [Oakland County Lieutenant] Willis, police discovered "a video made by him the night before the incident wherein he talked about shooting and killing students the next day at Oxford High School."

Willis continued, "Further, a journal was recovered from Ethan's backpack also detailing his desire to shoot up a school to include murdering students."
Videos found on Ethan Crumbley's phone "horrendously disturbing," Oakland Co. Sheriff says

And more:

Police said they were unaware of any warning signs, but some parents and students said they had heard rumors before Tuesday that something bad might happen at the school.

Earlier this month, Oxford schools published a note to parents that it was aware that "numerous rumors" had "circulated throughout our building this week," and the school was reviewing the concerns.

Some parents later said, even before the shooting, rumors had been circulating that a school shooting was going to happen, and some students even said that they had decided not to attend.

Robin Redding, the parent of a 12th grader, told the Associated Press that there had been rumblings of trouble at the school.

“He was not in school today," she said. "He just said that 'Ma I don’t feel comfortable. None of the kids that we go to school with are going today.' "

Jody Job, chair of the Oakland County Democratic Party and a candidate for the state house in 2020, said her son didn’t go to school Tuesday because "he felt like something was going to go down."

“I think there was just a level of discomfort with some of the students," she said. "I don't know what they're communicating to each other. That's a whole other world I'm not a part of."
Oxford High School shooting leaves 4 dead, 7 injured

And more:

Crumbley was struggling in school when his mom wrote a blog post in 2016 called “Dear Mr. Trump” shortly after the 2016 election. She addressed multiple political concerns, including common core learning.

She wrote:

You see Mr. Trump, I need you to stop common core. My son struggles daily, and my teachers tell me they hate teaching it but the HAVE to. Their pay depends on these stupid *advertiser censored***** test scores. I have to pay for a Tutor, why? Because I can’t figure out 4th grade math. I used to be good at math. I can’t afford a Tutor, in fact I sacrifice car insurance to make sure my son gets a good education and hopefully succeeds in life. My parents teach at a school where their kids come from illegal immigrant parents. Most of their parents are locked up. They don’t care about learning and threaten to kill my mom for caring about their grades. Do you realize Mr. Trump that they get free tutors, free tablets from our Government so they can succeed. Why cant my son get those things, do we as hard working Americans not deserve that too?​

Ethan Crumbley: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

Lots of red flags waving IMO.

 

[tedtink]

Most mass shooters aren't on drugs or insane though. I think the entire family has 2A-itis: where nothing else matters besides the 2A.

Agree, but I did wonder, especially where he said about the voices or thoughts telling him to do it.

 

[Facinatingtimes]

Did any of the parents who let their kids stay home that day call the school to tell them of the concern? If not, why not? If your kid is scared enough to stay home all day, you should let the school know.

1000% agree. Especially if the threat that scared them was from EC’s post. It can’t be, right??? There were 1800 kids at that school - no one called the school or LE? I must be missing something here…

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I think the videos were shared in his social media:

His social media accounts were allegedly studded with menacing posts, including a photo of the handgun he used in his rampage and an apparent countdown warning: “Now I become death – destroyer of worlds – see you tomorrow Oxford.”
Ethan Crumbley: Red flags raised before Michigan school shooting spark scrutiny

I don’t think the specific video of his plan to shoot students was public on SM. It’s my understanding that they found it on his phone.

 

[Arkay]

This could have been his story to everyone. He was covering his real life plan with creating a video game. What if he was telling his parents the same thing? I really could see this being believable too. He's not been in trouble in the past, it really is hard to fathom him being a killer before the events that happened that day. I still trying to wrap my head around this! IMO

this may well have been his cover story, but any ACTUAL parents would at this point have interjected, “oh my son drew these pictures of gun violence? I think we should inform you that he in fact has access to a gun at home.”

THAT would have moved this immediately up the chain. In my school for sure he would have been removed from the building, either on a psych hold in an ambulance, or by police in a cop car.

I’ve mentioned before that in my school, grades 6-8 where I taught 8th, on the first day of school each year we hand out a contract that the parents must sign. We also have what we call the blue card, which is the card with all pertinent and emergency info, including who else has authority for the child beyond the parents. Often the parents will fill in “call 911” in an emergency. Of course that is normally when the parents can’t be reached, and in this case the parents were there.

In our contract though we do have a clause that the child’s backpack may be searched if necessary. I’m sure not every parent even bothers to read through it, but it gives us the right.

The guidance counselor was apparently alone and he or she should have gone up the chain of command. A mistake that will haunt everyone forever. But maybe not his or her fault alone since we don’t know this school’s protocols.

I don’t particularly want to see the guidance counselor crucified. It’s Ethan and the parents who seemingly encouraged this by buying him a gun and laughing off the ammo search. JMO

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Most mass shooters aren't on drugs or insane though. I think the entire family has 2A-itis: where nothing else matters besides the 2A.

I think most mass shooters have some crossed wires to be able to commit an act like this, I think this boy falls into that category too. MOO

 

[Dream'r]

I have a gut feeling that Ethan and his parents flat out denied he had access to a gun during the meeting; therefore, the school didn't believe that the backpack needed searched. The school was worried that Ethan was a suicide risk and wanted the parents to take him for psychiatric help that day, but they declined.
It appears to me that Ethan's parents were emotionally uninvolved with him (they took care of him materially) and were completely self-involved. Just the facts that they refused to take him home when he appeared seriously suicidal and suffering the day of the shooting, and then fled leaving him behind to face his charges alone shows that they really don't care about him, but only themselves.
And the whole 'they were scared and going to turn themselves in Saturday morning' is crap. They didn't need a plan to surrender.... they could've called the police or 911 and given their location so the huge manhunt didn't have to occur at all. They're straight up full of it.

 

[whitelilac]

Q. What are the criminal ramifications for the people that helped them? We don't have charges at this point, but it's part of the investigation. Any applicable charges is the prosecutors decision. We have enough early indications that someone let them into the location and made it available to them and it was after it was publicly announced there were warrants.

Q. Regards to the person in Detroit, is there any indication of the relationship? yes, but we aren't giving that info out yet.

Snipped for focus.

So...there IS a relationship to the person who let them into the building in Detroit.
I wondered about this last night....whether they knew this individual or talked their way in, maybe handing over some cash...was the person maybe not aware of the manhunt, a janitor or studio artist, whoever?

So that may indicate them going to Detroit rather than elsewhere because this person they knew would help them.
I wonder if this was arranged in advance, and what the plan was to be the following morning. Did this person have access to a boat? Would this person have taken them by vehicle, maybe hidden, through the tunnel (last night I read there was a tunnel from somewhere in the area to the Canada side) ?

 

[happyday]

Either because they were afraid of him or because they wanted him to shoot up the school. I think the parents are mentally ill and/or totally lacking in sound judgment of any kind.

Add in some serious personality disorders as well.

 

[MsMarple]

1000% agree. Especially if the threat that scared them was from EC’s post. It can’t be, right??? There were 1800 kids at that school - no one called the school or LE? I must be missing something here…

Yeah, it's hard to understand. We have msm reports of kids asking to stay home from school that day because they "felt something bad" was going to happen and there were rumors swirling about. The parents did listen enough to let their kids stay home but didn't call the school just to let the office know or even ask about the rumors?

IMO a couple of concerned phone calls from parents coupled with EC's teacher catching him searching for ammo on his cell phone might have been enough to take those drawings a lot more seriously.

Waiting for more information...

 

[happyday]

This makes a lot more sense to me now. No admin. in the meeting, who, imo, are typically quicker to give out more extreme consequences. I wonder how experienced the counselor was. I suspect they believed the danger was the shooter harming himself. But being at a shooting range should have tipped the balance to not sending him back to class. Horrible mistake.

It does make more sense they didn’t search the backpack since the meeting was with the counselor.

 

[lake daze]

The Crumbley's lawyers said they were in constant talks with the Crumbleys. However, we know their phones were turned off before they went into hiding.

Ethan was probably bullied to some extent. He seemed quite different, and this is high school...it probably happened. It's happened to MANY kids. What I wish some of these kids could figure out on their own is, if they think their high school mates are terrible people, what do they think living years with prisoners will be like. Ethan wasn't going to commit suicide, he put his gun down. He had to know he's going to jail. I know, kids don't think that far ahead, but I wish they did.

 

[happyday]

I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that these parents were actively fleeing and even possibly trying to get out of the country. Did they just plan on never coming back? As a mother I can’t fathom doing that to my child who is so troubled to commit mass murder and is sitting in jail. I suspect serious sociopathy and narcissism. I don’t even know how that explains it actually. I’m just flabbergasted.

 

[MsMarple]

Snipped for focus.

So...there IS a relationship to the person who let them into the building in Detroit.
I wondered about this last night....whether they knew this individual or talked their way in, maybe handing over some cash...was the person maybe not aware of the manhunt, a janitor or studio artist, whoever?

So that may indicate them going to Detroit rather than elsewhere because this person they knew would help them.
I wonder if this was arranged in advance, and what the plan was to be the following morning. Did this person have access to a boat? Would this person have taken them by vehicle, maybe hidden, through the tunnel (last night I read there was a tunnel from somewhere in the area to the Canada side) ?

Yes, both the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel and The Ambassador Bridge go to Canada. Neither allows pedestrians.
Detroit-Windsor Tunnel | Home
Main Page Ambassador Bridge

You can actually see Detroit from Windsor and vice versa. I don't see how they would successfully cross though. And I would think trying to cross the Detroit river illegally even a small boat would be quickly spotted.

I suppose there's also a possibility they were trying to arrange transportation to some other place in the US.

 

[ilovewings]

I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that these parents were actively fleeing and even possibly trying to get out of the country. Did they just plan on never coming back? As a mother I can’t fathom doing that to my child who is so troubled to commit mass murder and is sitting in jail. I suspect serious sociopathy and narcissism. I don’t even know how that explains it actually. I’m just flabbergasted.

I am so with you: I am no shrink but sociopathy really looks probable with respect to the parents and maybe their child. It is truly flabbergasting--- Never seen anything like this

 

[Arkay]

Ethan was probably bullied to some extent. He seemed quite different, and this is high school...it probably happened. It's happened to MANY kids. What I wish some of these kids could figure out on their own is, if they think their high school mates are terrible people, what do they think living years with prisoners will be like.

I’ve had a few 15 and even 16 year olds in 8th grade, though most are 14 by year’s end.
My experience may be specific to NYC and maybe to many large cities.

In my experience there is quite a lot of tolerance for people who are different nowadays, and I mean as far as other children go.

When I grew up, also NYC, kids made fun of overweight kids. I don’t see that really anymore. The kids today at least in NYC are elbow to elbow (pre-covid) with kids of every race, nationality, religion, style and so on. Pierced kids, tattooed kids, kids with all kinds of crazy hair, overweight kids, shaved heads on girls—-maybe it’s just me but I honestly don’t see them reacting to each other that way. They’re just used to everyone being their own way.

I think these shootings that seem to happen more in small towns perhaps have a more homogenous population than we have, and someone different stands out more. Also I guess there is still a jock culture? We don’t have that as much.

That’s not to say there aren’t popular and unpopular kids, there are, but I think the parameters have shifted. The cool kids can be anything.

JMO from observation and experience.

ETA: I’m guessing for Ethan, whom LE and the DA say planned this and looked forward to it, the anticipation of power and ability to instill fear seemed worth a life in prison. That and having his name in lights, as it were. He will come to see that prison is inglorious.

 

[NicMed329]

EBM

This is interesting.

After reading all the posts I mulled on the idea of the drawing.
I concluded - either EC was in desperate need of help - NOT schizophrenia (too young), but possibly a psychotic episode or drug related psychosis manifesting in hearing voices telling him to act out instructions.

OR.

The drawing was a goading, mocking, malevolent and sinister act designed as a threat. Part of his fantasy. And possibly 'pretending' to be mentally ill.

I now conclude the latter.

JMO MOO

I’m a social worker in an Inpt psych hospital and imo thoughts don’t mean voices necessarily but it definitely appears he has obsessive thoughts for sure. Probably more cluster b personality type which I don’t consider mental illness personally imo.

 

[ilovewings]

the parents don



I’m a social worker in an Inpt psych hospital and imo thoughts don’t mean voices necessarily but it definitely appears he has obsessive thoughts for sure. Probably more cluster b personality type which I don’t consider mental illness personally imo.

Cluster B personality disorders: Types and symptoms (medicalnewstoday.com)

I had to look up Cluster B personality disorder since I was not familiar with it