MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

[Arkay]

When a juvenile is in jail, parents lose the ability to make a lot of decisions, but not necessarily all. They can hire an attorney for their child, handle their child’s estate if he or she has one, etc.

When a child is in foster care, their ability to make decisions for their child typically is taken completely. At least temporarily.

If the child has a guardian, then the parents may still retain some control and they retain most of their parental rights.

Does this hold true in all 50 states? I know many laws are state-specific but I'm unaware of the laws in this situation outside of my own state.

Also, @gitana1, so you're saying that the fact that the parents are both in jail does not further impact their rights? A court must first determine if they lose their parental rights due to alleged negligence and fairly obvious recent abandonment?

TIA

ETA: I need to amend my post. I've been talking so much about the Crumbleys and I don't want to forget what should be my focus here:

Tate Myre, Hana St. Juliana, Justin Shilling and Madisyn Baldwin.

God help their families.

 

[Lillymac]

Maybe have already been addressed and if so just point me to it. Does the fact that EC has been charged as an adult only effect or determine what charges can be brought against him, or does his adult status apply to anything else? What else, if anything does it apply to? Thanks

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Oakland County, Michigan Sheriff says they finished their interview with Andrez Sikora around 5pm. Now they are executing a search warrant at his house. He is the artist associated with the warehouse where detectives say the Crumbleys were hiding out.

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1468003806743089160

 

[ilovewings]

Michigan teacher suspended for ‘insensitive’ comments made in class after Oxford HS shooting (clickondetroit.com)

Metro Detroit prosecutors bring charges as threats against schools continue (detroitnews.com)

Just shaking my head and asking what is wrong with peop!e?
Hard to imagine a teacher saying something so incendiary

 

[kaen]

Watched an analysis of Ethan from youtube by a man that studies school shootings, it was posted on here a few days ago. He said, with a few exceptions, the kids always know, the shooters always talk. He went on to say that this makes it difficult for the shooter to back out, change course. The other kids already know and in the shooter’s mind, they don’t want to be made fun of, thought of as a coward for not following thru. He emphasized that a good anonymous system is needed that allows people to report these rumors without repercussions.

Agree 10000% with this post.

And, I will say that beyond peers knowing making it difficult to back out, when you have parents who read your notes, see your drawings and don't want to step in and help you, that might also make a teen more settled on the course of action they were planning. How much more do you need as a parent then your kid saying the pain won't go away.....

 

[CrimeAway]

 

[kaen]

School personnel and Board of Education members have probably been advised by their respective legal representatives to not speak publicly or issue statements about the case. If I were a parent whose children attended Oxford High School, I'd want to hear from the administration and school board members. JMO

They have most likely all been told to not say a word. I don't know if they are unionized but it is never a good idea to go rogue in discussing this kind of case with anyone.

As a parent, knowing that I have been contacted minimizing the issues pertaining to threats AND now hearing that the counselors had this young man in their office with disturbing words and drawings AND now having had my child in a school where a student murdered others, I would want any and all of these leaders to not be leaders in my child's school anymore. There were so many missteps that should not have occurred given the amount of gun violence that occurs in schools these days. They are not trustworthy in my book. Of course, this is JMHO.

 

[kaen]

I wonder why they still have that video. The other people didn't seem overly concerned that he just smacked his head.

If I had the video, I would keep it for liability sake. This is evidence that he fell on his own not due to working conditions, or negligence or assault by another employee. People are litigious these days. Business owners do what they can to make sure they are not on the hook for an insurance claim.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

That's true, but was he sneaky in getting the gun?

He told several people, in a believable way, that a violent, bloody, shooting drawing with the word "help" was a game design sketch. No one probed any further about his interest in guns.

Perhaps the parents thought the gun was secure, perhaps duped by their son?

How "secure" was the gun in the unlocked drawer in the parents' bedroom (where they allege it was kept)?

I firmly believe that once EC was gifted his new "beauty", it never left his possession and was in HIS bedroom. Hardly any sneaking necessary either way.

JMO

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I'm unfamiliar with prosecutors who are angry rather than professional, or advocating for change in law rather than strictly upholding the law. Canadian prosecutors have the job of prosecutor on the basis of merit, rather than election. Perhaps that makes them apparently apolitical, unemotional and appropriately distanced from the job.

“Four kids were murdered and seven more injured. So yes, I think we should all be very angry and we should take a very hard look at what is in place in terms of criminal responsibility and what gun owners are required to do,” she said."
​

School Gunman’s ‘Fugitive’ Parents Laugh, Cry in Court After Wild Manhunt

Being angry and being professional are not mutually exclusive. Neither are legal reform and upholding the law.

 

[BUF]

Per CNN: search warrant at the artist’s house if for any and all electronic devices.

 

[lonetraveler]

Ethan Crumbley is seen collapsing while working at a diner last year | Daily Mail Online

I will not be surprised if we hear about his head injury during his defense. JMO

 

[borndem]

Has this article been posted...

Bouchard was asked Friday about Throne’s comments.

“Certainly, after the second encounter in the morning, I believe it was more than appropriate and necessary (to contact law enforcement), based on the content of what was seen on the second day,” Bouchard said. “Clearly, I believe that that would have been appropriate, and I also know that our school resource officer would have asked him to be removed from school while that counseling or whatever was ordered by the school takes place.”

Bouchard said the resource officer would have escorted Crumbley from the school and made sure he didn’t have any weapons on him.

Sheriff believes Oxford High School should have told police about suspect’s behavior before shooting

Uh-oh... What about the responsibility of the school staff and administration? I've been wondering if there would be any repercussions from this meeting...

It does make sense that this troubled child needed help right away, with the specter of past school shootings, and Ethan's looking-for-ammo sellers while in a classroom at that school.

Should the staff at the meeting have left the decision up to the parents that day? Ethan was obviously troubled and likely dangerous on this day....his writing, "Help me," just screams, IMO. SMH.

I assume the school administration would have had the authority to get that troubled student out of school immediately...

We'll see. It may be that the Crumbley's attorney will toss that hot potato onto the school and its administration. It may be all the defense that can be scraped-up for either Ethan or his parents.

What a sad horrible situation.

 

[Ruminations]

Wow. It is an interesting question. I do think they would have to appoint a guardian to represent his interests.

Wow. If it gets to the point that both parents blame their child, and vice-versa, the parents on so many levels have more power.

Edited to add: not to say that the shooter no responsibility. I don’t think the guilt is a finite size, and if we give the parents each a big slice, we are carving away at the shooters guilt. Each person who brought about this murder and terror spree have their own pie.

 

[Ched]

Ethan Crumbley is seen collapsing while working at a diner last year | Daily Mail Online

 

[Boxer]

Uh-oh... What about the responsibility of the school staff and administration? I've been wondering if there would be any repercussions from this meeting...

It does make sense that this troubled child needed help right away, with the specter of past school shootings, and Ethan's looking-for-ammo sellers while in a classroom at that school.

Should the staff at the meeting have left the decision up to the parents that day? Ethan was obviously troubled and likely dangerous on this day....his writing, "Help me," just screams, IMO. SMH.

I assume the school administration would have had the authority to get that troubled student out of school immediately...

We'll see. It may be that the Crumbley's attorney will toss that hot potato onto the school and its administration. It may be all the defense that can be scraped-up for either Ethan or his parents.

What a sad horrible situation.

The school was unaware that Ethan received hand gun for Christmas four days earlier, but the parents knew.

 

[Wild Rose]

As an educator, during the pandemic, so many schools went virtual, there was an oddly realized relief in not worrying about school shootings. Now, we are back in school and it is always in the back of your head again. During your commute or the quiet of your night or when you bolt the room windows every afternoon. Our schools need to be like families, where everyone knows they are loved. That is the best job we can do before any educating. Keep smiling, saying hello to every student. Include each student. And as a parent, do not have those parties where you invite 13 classmates and leave 2 out. Ever.

 

[JayWill]

As an educator, during the pandemic, so many schools went virtual, there was an oddly realized relief in not worrying about school shootings. Now, we are back in school and it is always in the back of your head again. During your commute or the quiet of your night or when you bolt the room windows every afternoon. Our schools need to be like families, where everyone knows they are loved. That is the best job we can do before any educating. Keep smiling, saying hello to every student. Include each student. And as a parent, do not have those parties where you invite 13 classmates and leave 2 out. Ever.

Yes, and often the bullying by girls is driven by their mothers. MOO.

 

[passionflower]

Ethan Crumbley is seen collapsing while working at a diner last year | Daily Mail Online

Ahhh, so this says MJ was used by dad and the rest of family?

 

[Murder She Wrote]

Ethan Crumbley is seen collapsing while working at a diner last year | Daily Mail Online

I do feel sorry for Ethan. How can his mom send him to work like that and then brush it off after she was called about his fall? As a parent, I would have been very concerned. This is not normal behavior for a 14 year old (at the time).