MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

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gitana1 said:
Thank you!



I liked Forager's answer. It could be the age and/or sex of the kids depicted or an assessment that indicated the daughter was not a victim, and not likely to be, etc. it's quite hard to tell.

Supervision is typically ordered for sex offenders with kids or those accused of being sex offenders. And it's a safe option usually. But if the monitor is sympathetic to the offender/alleged offender, that's a problem.
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You've been great to pitch in, Gitana1. It's been a help to get your expert take on it. Considering the status of the *advertiser censored* charges and visitation issues, it would lead one to question the motive behind Julia's murder. If the only POI still seems to be her step dad, could the motive be more than just hiding a proclivity for child abuse, rather could it be some lucrative illegal enterprise to go along?
 
FindHG said:
You've been great to pitch in, Gitana1. It's been a help to get your expert take on it. Considering the status of the *advertiser censored* charges and visitation issues, it would lead one to question the motive behind Julia's murder. If the only POI still seems to be her step dad, could the motive be more than just hiding a proclivity for child abuse, rather could it be some lucrative illegal enterprise to go along?
Click to expand...
You are right that JT seems to be the only POI. I wonder if that is the case. He certainly is the only person who has been named a POI. But I think that generally, LE doesn't publicize a list of all their POI's. In this case, LE only acknowledged that JT was a POI because there was some pressure from the media (since JT was charged with child *advertiser censored* posession).

But I find the term POI (person of interest) confusing. I take it to mean any person that may have relevant information. But it seems often to be used as a suspect that has not been formally charged. For example, in the Chelsea Bruck case the Sheriff pointed out:
The sheriff pointed out that the man depicted in the sketch is not a person of interest and there is no reason to believe Bruck is in danger.
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http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/2...eople-at-party-when-chelsea-bruck-disappeared
This is really weird. If person in the sketch is not of interest, then why are we looking for him? I think he should have said that the man in the sketch is a POI, but not a suspect.
 
rosesfromangels said:
"]Thank you for this look around.[/URL]
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There is a real creepy flat top gray building "for lease" right next to her apartments, and then more industrial stuff further down railroad rd. The gray building gives me the creeps, but it's probably residual willies from the Chelsea case.

Here's the thing...if the Perp had to enter through a "building" door, this becomes very puzzling. It was a Sunday night before finals. Kids coming and going at all hours. The library was open until 10:00pm. Anyone other than the kids would have really stood out. Puzzling...[/QUOTE]

I do agree as I lived on campus or in apartments near it for my five years of schooling. However, some things also came to mind to consider. It was winter time and got dark early, therefore, most people were probably quick to get from outside to their apartments. I wouldn't imagine much hanging around and socializing back and forth.... Especially for a Sunday night. Also, around this time we would see family coming in and out of dorms and apartments for students preparing to either move home for the semester break or if they graduated and we're leaving the area altogether.... Packing things up and going in and out of apartments. This makes me consider the fact that some people that may have seemed "out of place" normally being in a college apartment complex but maybe not really questioned because of this fact.
Or it was someone within the building already that didn't need to worry about being seen and out of place.
Just some other views to consider.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Here's a few ideas to ponder.................
Could the perp have been a resident of that apartment building? or another student that would not have been so noticeable.
With one roommate gone all weekend, if the perp knew this - Could the perp have been hiding in her room and waiting for an opportunity?
Here's a real reach..... Is it possible that her roommate had hidden some drugs in Julia's room or Julia had discovered some drugs hidden in the kitchen or common area. When the person that wanted the drugs could not find them, that's when they went to Julia's room. Think about this....... Roommate knocks on Julia's door (thinking Julia had "found" their hidden drugs) Julia opens door and that's when the trouble began. Julia is quickly incapacitated, perps think they killed her, put her in the tub to look like an accident then search the room for the drugs, leaving the room in a mess but not really stealing anything of value. Yes, the roommate have been checked out by LE but I'm not convinced that the perp was not a college student if it wasn't her roommate & boyfriend. Is it possible that the roommate & boyfriend could have been on a drug "high" and after the fact, they have no memory of what had transpired? I know this is all a far fetched scenario but such a thing could have happened. This is my theory that does not involve JT at all. What do you think?
 
Trojan1966 said:
Here's a few ideas to ponder.................
Could the perp have been a resident of that apartment building? or another student that would not have been so noticeable.
With one roommate gone all weekend, if the perp knew this - Could the perp have been hiding in her room and waiting for an opportunity?
Here's a real reach..... Is it possible that her roommate had hidden some drugs in Julia's room or Julia had discovered some drugs hidden in the kitchen or common area. When the person that wanted the drugs could not find them, that's when they went to Julia's room. Think about this....... Roommate knocks on Julia's door (thinking Julia had "found" their hidden drugs) Julia opens door and that's when the trouble began. Julia is quickly incapacitated, perps think they killed her, put her in the tub to look like an accident then search the room for the drugs, leaving the room in a mess but not really stealing anything of value. Yes, the roommate have been checked out by LE but I'm not convinced that the perp was not a college student if it wasn't her roommate & boyfriend. Is it possible that the roommate & boyfriend could have been on a drug "high" and after the fact, they have no memory of what had transpired? I know this is all a far fetched scenario but such a thing could have happened. This is my theory that does not involve JT at all. What do you think?
Click to expand...

What you just said was what I have been thinking. Or the roommate that came back to "grab stuff" could have told a friend she was leaving for the weekend but to go ahead and go to the apartment for drugs or whatever else. Maybe the roommate was cleared bc it was a friend of hers or in their group. I feel your theory could make sense in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The culprit could also have been dressed to look like a cleaning crew (alone or not) or maintenance worker, delivery perso. (pizza, flowers, etc). That would not raise much suspicion in an apartment complex. Although, usually the apartment needing maintenance would have been notified someone would be there at a specific day/time, it would raise no eyebrows from the others.

Keep in mind also ..... up to this point, JT is not considered a suspect. It is believed he MAY have info that would lead to the actual perpetrator. If he would go in and talk with LE in whatever capacity they want, he could be helpful in finding his daughter's killer or it may be discovered he had no knowledge whatsoever. To this day I do not understand the reasoning a parent would not go overboard in helping an investigation into the muder of their child (stepchild).
 
Spellbound said:
The culprit could also have been dressed to look like a cleaning crew (alone or not) or maintenance worker, delivery perso. (pizza, flowers, etc). That would not raise much suspicion in an apartment complex. Although, usually the apartment needing maintenance would have been notified someone would be there at a specific day/time, it would raise no eyebrows from the others.

Keep in mind also ..... up to this point, JT is not considered a suspect. It is believed he MAY have info that would lead to the actual perpetrator. If he would go in and talk with LE in whatever capacity they want, he could be helpful in finding his daughter's killer or it may be discovered he had no knowledge whatsoever. To this day I do not understand the reasoning a parent would not go overboard in helping an investigation into the muder of their child (stepchild).
Click to expand...

I can see a food delivery person - but most dont come in to clean or deliver flowers in the middle of the night....
 
Trojan1966 said:
Here's a few ideas to ponder.................
Could the perp have been a resident of that apartment building? or another student that would not have been so noticeable.
With one roommate gone all weekend, if the perp knew this - Could the perp have been hiding in her room and waiting for an opportunity?
Here's a real reach..... Is it possible that her roommate had hidden some drugs in Julia's room or Julia had discovered some drugs hidden in the kitchen or common area. When the person that wanted the drugs could not find them, that's when they went to Julia's room. Think about this....... Roommate knocks on Julia's door (thinking Julia had "found" their hidden drugs) Julia opens door and that's when the trouble began. Julia is quickly incapacitated, perps think they killed her, put her in the tub to look like an accident then search the room for the drugs, leaving the room in a mess but not really stealing anything of value. Yes, the roommate have been checked out by LE but I'm not convinced that the perp was not a college student if it wasn't her roommate & boyfriend. Is it possible that the roommate & boyfriend could have been on a drug "high" and after the fact, they have no memory of what had transpired? I know this is all a far fetched scenario but such a thing could have happened. This is my theory that does not involve JT at all. What do you think?
Click to expand...

Has LE disclosed whether there was evidence of a sexual assault?
 
MIMOMMY said:
I can see a food delivery person - but most dont come in to clean or deliver flowers in the middle of the night....
Click to expand...
I definitely agree! It's been nine years since my last round of bachelor degree finals, but there were always tons of delivery people around. A lot of places even extended their delivery hours until 4 am during finals. I never saw flower deliveries at all except for on Valentines day.
 
caspermi said:
Has LE disclosed whether there was evidence of a sexual assault?
Click to expand...

No:

Julia's twin sister, Jennifer Niswender, told AnnArbor.com Tuesday that Julia's apartment was found in disarray and "couple of things were missing." Jennifer also said the door to Julia's apartment was locked, but declined to say whether her keys were included in the missing items.

Jennifer said police have told the family there were no signs that a "sexual assault or struggle" took place.

"That's what they said right from the beginning," Jennifer said.
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http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsila...-confirms-julia-niswender-drowned-in-bathtub/

But I think sexual assault could still have been the motive. Julia was only partially clothed.
Police found Niswender partially clothed in the bathtub in her Peninsular Place apartment on Dec. 11 around 9:30 p.m., when they did a well-being check after she hadn’t been heard from in a few days.
Click to expand...
http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/11/julia_niswender.html
 
MIMOMMY said:
I can see a food delivery person - but most dont come in to clean or deliver flowers in the middle of the night....
Click to expand...

Yes, but...
She probably wouldn't open the door for a food delivery person if she hadn't ordered food. But if she had ordered food, she would have used her cell phone to call them (presuming there is no landline in the apartment) and LE would know about it, and they would have found the perp by now. I think that whoever the perp is, it is probably a person she did not call that day. Perhaps she spoke to the person during the day. Maybe that person just wanted to pick up or drop of something and Julia told the person that she would be at home in the evening.
 
black_squirrel said:
Yes, but...
She probably wouldn't open the door for a food delivery person if she hadn't ordered food. But if she had ordered food, she would have used her cell phone to call them (presuming there is no landline in the apartment) and LE would know about it, and they would have found the perp by now. I think that whoever the perp is, it is probably a person she did not call that day. Perhaps she spoke to the person during the day. Maybe that person just wanted to pick up or drop of something and Julia told the person that she would be at home in the evening.
Click to expand...

Or simply someone she recognized. Perhaps a friend of a roommate as has been suggested upthread. The "no signs of struggle" also indicate this to me.
 
I wonder if the roommates have been questioned about drugs. I can image that the one that was caught by Julia would not want to answer any questions about drug use etc., because those might incriminate her. If there were drugs in the apartment at some time, it would be important to know who delivered it etc.
 
Trojan1966 said:
Here's a few ideas to ponder.................
Could the perp have been a resident of that apartment building? or another student that would not have been so noticeable.
With one roommate gone all weekend, if the perp knew this - Could the perp have been hiding in her room and waiting for an opportunity?
Here's a real reach..... Is it possible that her roommate had hidden some drugs in Julia's room or Julia had discovered some drugs hidden in the kitchen or common area. When the person that wanted the drugs could not find them, that's when they went to Julia's room. Think about this....... Roommate knocks on Julia's door (thinking Julia had "found" their hidden drugs) Julia opens door and that's when the trouble began. Julia is quickly incapacitated, perps think they killed her, put her in the tub to look like an accident then search the room for the drugs, leaving the room in a mess but not really stealing anything of value. Yes, the roommate have been checked out by LE but I'm not convinced that the perp was not a college student if it wasn't her roommate & boyfriend. Is it possible that the roommate & boyfriend could have been on a drug "high" and after the fact, they have no memory of what had transpired? I know this is all a far fetched scenario but such a thing could have happened. This is my theory that does not involve JT at all. What do you think?
Click to expand...

As an FYI, here are the crime stats for Michigan Universities in 2012. I note they don't have Julia's murder noted for EMU, so take this report as "directional" vs. accurate:
http://www.emich.edu/police/documents/michigan-public-universities-crime-stats-2012.pdf

With regard to the roomie who allegedly used drugs. *Yes*, I have held her in high suspicion, but have moved on since LE apparently poly'ed, questioned, and cleared her? I'm still interested in knowing if Julia was dressed in a manner that would suggest she was expecting to be alone for the night, or was she gussied up which suggests she was expecting a visitor? Knowing this (if possible), would help focus the analysis.
 
black_squirrel said:
Yes, but...
She probably wouldn't open the door for a food delivery person if she hadn't ordered food. But if she had ordered food, she would have used her cell phone to call them (presuming there is no landline in the apartment) and LE would know about it, and they would have found the perp by now. I think that whoever the perp is, it is probably a person she did not call that day. Perhaps she spoke to the person during the day. Maybe that person just wanted to pick up or drop of something and Julia told the person that she would be at home in the evening.
Click to expand...

MIMOMMY said:
I can see a food delivery person - but most dont come in to clean or deliver flowers in the middle of the night....
Click to expand...

you are both right. That's why I need more than one brain to work through my thoughts. drats
thank you for the added input.
 
rosesfromangels said:
As an FYI, here are the crime stats for Michigan Universities in 2012. I note they don't have Julia's murder noted for EMU, so take this report as "directional" vs. accurate:
http://www.emich.edu/police/documents/michigan-public-universities-crime-stats-2012.pdf

With regard to the roomie who allegedly used drugs. *Yes*, I have held her in high suspicion, but have moved on since LE apparently poly'ed, questioned, and cleared her? I'm still interested in knowing if Julia was dressed in a manner that would suggest she was expecting to be alone for the night, or was she gussied up which suggests she was expecting a visitor? Knowing this (if possible), would help focus the analysis.
Click to expand...

And some additional data about the overall crime rates in Ypsilanti:

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Ypsilanti-Michigan.html
 
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