MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

[Trojan1966]

That may not be the case. Sometimes one court will issue orders as a back up that are less stringent than another. Trojan1966, do you know if bail conditions were modified?

No, but I will check tomorrow and let you know.

 

[Spellbound]

Gitana, I am thrilled you were able to come here. This has been a very troubling case, and is actually now two-cases-in-one-thread. Death of Julis by asphyxiation, and the child *advertiser censored* trial coming up for the stepfather.

:loveyou:

 

[rosesfromangels]

Regardless of what the courts order, I really really pray that the adults will reconsider and get the minor child some counseling. I know the mother KT stated that the minor "won't talk" to a counselor, but counselors know how to work with that.
It's been stated on this thread that the child has been subjected to some very unpleasant remarks at school. She has lost one of her big sisters. Can you imagine what might be going through her mind? She is probably checking under her bed and in her closets each night.

School is, or will be out shortly. Can't she go spend the summer with an out of town relative while all these adult issues get sorted out? My heart goes out to this little girl. She must be very fearful and worried. At least I would be. : (

 

[gitana1]

Thank you so much, gitana1, for helping with Julia's case. This is very much appreciated. I'd like to be set straight on this because it completely boggles me.

I'd like to try to understand:

how considering what is known of the history of

abuse, violence, perversion and avoidance, by the adults KT and JT,

in relation to the minor they raised and lost,

her twin they raised to adulthood as well and kept,

and, now while the Turnquist = Red Team are responsible for,

with what seems to me, willy nilly restrictions as described by DnC,

the well-being of a minor in the middle of these potentially collapsing personalities,

is not being considered, as I complete agree with what you say, below?



RBBM

It can be confusing but I can't say that the well-being of the minor in question is not being considered. Clearly, the criminal court has considered her as bail conditions prevent the man from being around the girl. And CPS has a high standard to meet. Allegations do not equal fact in court. The 2000 allegations, what was the result? That would make a big difference to the probate court. Many people are certain as to the "known of the history of abuse, violence, perversion and avoidance, by the adults KT and JT", but allegations are not enough to prove that history.

Right now, the bail conditions keep the minor safe. If those are modified, the probate court conditions would keep the minor safe if the monitoring must be done by a professional, and NOT by someone who trusts the father.

We will see how this plays out. But he's not going to get away with having child *advertiser censored* on his computer. Possession is a felony that can lead to up to 4 years in prison.

What concerns me though is I thought I saw he was charged with only 1 count, yet 18 images were found on his computer. Is that true? If so, he should've been charged with more counts.

In any event, this case is fitting the pattern thus far of detectives who know a lot more than they're saying but not enough just yet to arrest, so they're putting on the pressure.

This is similar to the AJ Hadsell case as well as the Hannah Graham case - suspects are charged with lesser crimes they can be charged with which has the bonus of being used to pressure and to keep the community safe until further, more serious charges can possibly be brought.

This does NOT mean that the initial charges are merit-less, however.

 

[FindHG]

Regardless of what the courts order, I really really pray that the adults will reconsider and get the minor child some counseling. I know the mother KT stated that the minor "won't talk" to a counselor, but counselors know how to work with that.
It's been stated on this thread that the child has been subjected to some very unpleasant remarks at school. She has lost one of her big sisters. Can you imagine what might be going through her mind? She is probably checking under her bed and in her closets each night.

School is, or will be out shortly. Can't she go spend the summer with an out of town relative while all these adult issues get sorted out? My heart goes out to this little girl. She must be very fearful and worried. At least I would be. : (

She's been in the thick of it since her half-sister was murdered, and it's still not known for sure if her own father was involved, as he refuses to cooperate with LE, and her mom, her surviving half-sister, and a whole extend paternal family and small tight circle of people support him, while she lives in a community that I can only imagine is going kanipshin over this, as word has spread of what he may have done, which in a case of such taboos, is like wild fire, singes adults let alone a child. How does anyone expect this child to deal with what she may face given these circumstance without intervention is beyond me. None of the Red Crew would have it in their interest for her to be a normal communicative child if there is even the slightest chance he is guilty, which is clearly against her well-being. As long as that potential exists, I agree she needs all the help she may get.

 

[FindHG]

It can be confusing but I can't say that the well-being of the minor in question is not being considered. Clearly, the criminal court has considered her as bail conditions prevent the man from being around the girl. And CPS has a high standard to meet. Allegations do not equal fact in court. The 2000 allegations, what was the result? That would make a big difference to the probate court. Many people are certain as to the "known of the history of abuse, violence, perversion and avoidance, by the adults KT and JT", but allegations are not enough to prove that history.

Right now, the bail conditions keep the minor safe. If those are modified, the probate court conditions would keep the minor safe if the monitoring must be done by a professional, and NOT by someone who trusts the father.

We will see how this plays out. But he's not going to get away with having child *advertiser censored* on his computer. Possession is a felony that can lead to up to 4 years in prison.

What concerns me though is I thought I saw he was charged with only 1 count, yet 18 images were found on his computer. Is that true? If so, he should've been charged with more counts.

In any event, this case is fitting the pattern thus far of detectives who know a lot more than they're saying but not enough just yet to arrest, so they're putting on the pressure.

This is similar to the AJ Hadsell case as well as the Hannah Graham case - suspects are charged with lesser crimes they can be charged with which has the bonus of being used to pressure and to keep the community safe until further, more serious charges can possibly be brought.

This does NOT mean that the initial charges are merit-less, however.

The only person who may have had the courage to want to prove those allegations, who may have been both willing to and could have proven them, was murdered, it seems likely. Thank you so much gitana1, for explaining, and forgive my dunce approach as I tend to come at things more with my heart than my head. Appreciate your patience. You've very kind to share your time, knowledge and analysis of where things stand.

So, what should we be asking, what are the important questions, when it comes to personalities in denial raising a child in the middle of this, potentially?

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Isn't it likely the Prosecutor for Probate Court consulted with the Prosecutor for Circuit Court to see exactly what the "evidence" is in the criminal case against JT before they made a decision to dismiss?? Sure makes me wonder...

 

[gitana1]

Isn't it likely the Prosecutor for Probate Court consulted with the Prosecutor for Circuit Court to see exactly what the "evidence" is in the criminal case against JT before they made a decision to dismiss?? Sure makes me wonder...

No. .

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

No. .

Why not?

 

[TigerBalm]

Isn't it likely the Prosecutor for Probate Court consulted with the Prosecutor for Circuit Court to see exactly what the "evidence" is in the criminal case against JT before they made a decision to dismiss?? Sure makes me wonder...

No..!

ETA: I see Gitana already responded to no. I'll let her explain, since she is an attorney and will do a much better job then myself.

 

[gitana1]

Why not?

If they communicated it would've been before a complaint was filed. However, it is unlikely that the criminal prosecutors are talking to anyone regarding specifics. They need to remain tight lipped to protect their case.

Also, we don't know that the prosecution withdrew the complaint. We'll find out. But it is illogical to suggest that the prosecution for the state dropped child neglect allegations while the criminal court maintained their child
*advertiser censored* charges, based on the same evidence or lack thereof. Makes no sense. Also, it sort of appears it may have been an agreement of some sort because there is a court order in place by the probate court stating the father may only have supervised contact. That indicates a compromise.

 

[black_squirrel]

If they communicated it would've been before a complaint was filed. However, it is unlikely that the criminal prosecutors are talking to anyone regarding specifics. They need to remain tight lipped to protect their case.

Also, we don't know that the prosecution withdrew the complaint. We'll find out. But it is illogical to suggest that the prosecution for the state dropped child neglect allegations while the criminal court maintained their child
*advertiser censored* charges, based on the same evidence. Makes no sense. Also, it sort of appears it may have been an agreement of some sort because there is a court order in place by the probate court stating the father may only have supervised contact. That indicates a compromise.

Thanks for explaining. It is useful to have an attorney on the forum!

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

If they communicated it would've been before a complaint was filed. However, it is unlikely that the criminal prosecutors are talking to anyone regarding specifics. They need to remain tight lipped to protect their case.

Also, we don't know that the prosecution withdrew the complaint. We'll find out. But it is illogical to suggest that the prosecution for the state dropped child neglect allegations while the criminal court maintained their child
*advertiser censored* charges, based on the same evidence or lack thereof. Makes no sense. Also, it sort of appears it may have been an agreement of some sort because there is a court order in place by the probate court stating the father may only have supervised contact. That indicates a compromise.

Thank you for your expertise! You have made a great sense to me! Thank you, thank you! You mentioned upthread about the supervised visits (who is allowed to supervise, correct?)... this will be an important indicator to where things really stand. Also, if the prosecution withdrew the complaint would be another very telling move wouldn't it?!

 

[Trojan1966]

Here's the latest concerning the Probate Court case......... I just talked to the court and the charges were in fact "dropped" by the prosecutor and DPS. The official "order" will be done today and they will send me a copy. I will try to get more info from my contact at DPS but they are usually very tight lipped about things! If I hear more, I'll let everyone know. So as it stands right now, the only pending case is the Child *advertiser censored* charges against Jim T in Circuit Court scheduled for a trial to begin on June 29th at 8:15 AM.

 

[FindHG]

Here's the latest concerning the Probate Court case......... I just talked to the court and the charges were in fact "dropped" by the prosecutor and DPS. The official "order" will be done today and they will send me a copy. I will try to get more info from my contact at DPS but they are usually very tight lipped about things! If I hear more, I'll let everyone know. So as it stands right now, the only pending case is the Child *advertiser censored* charges against Jim T in Circuit Court scheduled for a trial to begin on June 29th at 8:15 AM.

Thank you for the update Trojan, concerning the probate court information and Circuit Court schedule in the morning, at 8:15 am, on June 29th. It's been great to get gitana1's take on this. Seems like things are still a tad more in flux for Turnquist than it may appear, all the fodder aside.

 

[psyquestor]

If I understand correctly, KT denies ever asking Rose to vouch for JT. Perhaps Rose reported to CPS and told the vouching story to cover up. Just exploring different possibilities here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With all due respect, KT isn't here to say anything and the mods have reminded several times that no one here speaks for her. They may have an opinion based on conversations they've had with her, but this is hearsay. We've seen that some of the statements here have proven to be erroneous. fwiw, moo.

To be fair, no one speaks for Grandma Rose either, but her ex husband is here with us and has relayed information concerning these events to the best of his knowledge. But if I follow your logic above, then Rose made up vouching for JT? Why would she do that? It seems to me that if she believed at time that there was abuse going on, she would have sought to regain custody (only recently given up at that point iifc)... yet she didn't.

So the theory does not hold water imoo. I don't see this Grandma stopping short in protecting her grandchildren then or now. She certainly isn't backing down on her position presently, even under pressure from her family to do so.

So again, this makes no sense to me. I do believe Trojan that the school originated the call to CPS. It just makes the most sense.

 

[Trojan1966]

About the question whether Kim asked Grandma Rose to vouch for her: Only Kim and Grandma Rose know for sure. Trojan can report what he heard from Grandma Rose,
and MIMOMMY can report on what she heard from Kim. In the end it is both hearsay. For the sake of objectivity, it is useful to point out the statements that both sides agree on
and the statements that are disputed.

There are various possibilities. Perhaps she was convinced that abuse was going on and reported it, yet she was unwilling to regain custody. (She moved out of the house where the twins were living several years earlier.) Perhaps she was not convinced that abuse was going on, but reported out of spite. (It is no secret that she hates JT.) And then, of course it may have been someone else who reported it. Again, the bottom line is that we cannot say for sure who reported to CPS.

I know for a fact that DPS had scheduled a visit to Kim and Jim's apartment as me and my wife were at their place for dinner when Kim told that DPS was coming to her house for a visit because of something Julia had said at school. That was it, she did not give us any details.

 

[Trojan1966]

Update on JT's bond conditions from Circuit Court. I called Circuit Court and was told that JT's lawyer and the prosecutor met with the Circuit Court judge and they amended his bond to allow supervised visits to his minor daughter. All other conditions remain in effect. "No contact with anyone under the age of eighteen." That's what I was told, so evidently the Circuit Court judge agreed to do this.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I know for a fact that DPS had scheduled a visit to Kim and Jim's apartment as me and my wife were at their place for dinner when Kim told that DPS was coming to her house for a visit because of something Julia had said at school. That was it, she did not give us any details.

She was quite the little communicator....then communications major....then "silenced".
Why can't I shake this theory of Julia being "silenced"?
What would she have known that someone didn't want her to "communicate"?

We are as sick as our secrets....as sick as our silence.

All just speculation, of course. Just can't shake that theory! :gaah:

 

[georgiasblu]

The Turnquist family, KT and JT sure have the worst luck. Everyone seems to be out to get them, everyone else is telling half truths and fibs. There iszalways an excuse. Sheesh...this alone causes me to look at them sideways. This case has me hooked and I feel for this fractured family. Sad