MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #10

[Jodibug]

I was not able to attend the afternoon session, and I didn't hear this in the morning hearing. First I heard of it was on KRCG at 10pm last night. I went looking for it on their website to see if they said where the info came from, and couldn't find it.

It was not mentioned in either court hearing. The only place I have heard about this is WS.

The second hearing was brief.... 5-6 mins at most. We were in the room probably 12-15 mins and did get to see the families the rest of that time.

Someone must have said something about them not being shown the first hearing, because the camera scanned them several times before, during and after the second one.

Members of the media were filling each other in on the names of the spectators in the upstairs courtroom. They knew most of them, only a couple of people were unknown.

As for the group that watched with us in the morning session, only about half of them came back. The lady from Prenger did not come back, and neither did the older couple that was taking notes.

I was writing notes the entire time of the second session though.

I sure hope Alyssa's jail cell is as cold as that court room was yesterday. I don't think it was over 55 degrees yesterday morning. It was a bit warmer in the afternoon yesterday, but not much.

We were all bundled up and FREEZING! That first hearing seemed sooooo long because I just wanted to get somewhere that had heat!

 

[Elley Mae]

Prof, I am feeling the same. This is not normal behavior. Something is wrong with their actions that night. The only explanation that would make sense to me would be that Alyssa was playing to have an attack (panic) because of Elizabeth being missing. That she wanted to get as far away from the murder scene thinking that Elizabeth would be found that evening. Because of her past history with mental Health Care the Gparents fell for it. Then when Elizabeth still was not found the next day -Thursday- she felt that it was safe to go home.Or they suspected her and wanted to get her out of the house for fear of their own lives.

 

[leandjl]

I find it pretty significant that Alyssa was wisked away to a psychiatric facility later on the night of the murder. First, because it shows ILC was pretty full of crap, and obviously trying to muddy the waters, and Second, because the GP had some inkling of something very wrong with her. Haven't heard much anything about this before, but if your searching for someone and the people from the last place she was seen up and leave like that, kinda would raise some red flags.

However, if this was the case, it makes much more sense now the way the Sheriff was painting the situation as a non-abduction crime, and apparently trying to control the search the best he could without tipping his hand. I would assume no one has any information about how and when Alyssa came back from St. Louis. I am also relieved to see that media folks are giving more attention.

Is the idea that the GP's took AB to a psychiatric center just rumor at this point, or is it a known fact? I can't understand why they would choose to take her to St. Louis - at least 2 hours away, when they could have taken her to a hospital in Jefferson City or even Columbia, or why not contact the therapist that had been seeing her "daily"? Can't imagine what an automobile ride for 2 hours would have been like with AB immediately after she committed this heinous crime.

 

[Prof]

I was not able to attend the afternoon session, and I didn't hear this in the morning hearing. First I heard of it was on KRCG at 10pm last night. I went looking for it on their website to see if they said where the info came from, and couldn't find it.

I can see several possible explanations....IF IT'S TRUE....
1) they knew EO was missing, saw AB acting strangely or maybe with blood on her and did realize there was, or could be, a connection, and decided to get her out of town. Could be for her own safety or the safety of the other kids, or could be to get her off LE radar till they could make a decision about what to do.

2) they may have seen AB with blood on her and thought she'd either killed an animal or had been cutting herself in a serious way and not even connected it to EO's disappearance.

3) AB may have hidden any bloody clothing, but still displayed erratic or psychotic behavior that scared them, so they took her in for treatment.

4) story may not be true at all

If they drove her to St Louis, did they take the rest of the kids with them? Did the other kids go to school on Thursday? Did aunt KP babysit the other kids while GM/GF/AB were driving to St L and back? When did AB get back? How did she get released so quickly? Was that because JC LE already knew (grandparents called and told them what was up maybe?), so they controlled the search and the news until they could get a chance to talk to her? Maybe the written evidence is a statement she gave at the psychiatric facility?


So many possibilities added by a single sentence I heard on TV news......
:banghead:

1 -- This scenario makes me want to scream! as Raebie noted on the previous page--- this action should have brought charges!
2 -- and not link it to the child missing? they should not have any children at home if this scenario is true
3 -- why not local? why drive 2 and 1/2 hours that night?
4 -- this is what I am hoping

Thank you for thinking these scenarios out--- makes me mad, not you or your post, just the thought of this being true

Thanks for all of your first hand information on the trial yesterday!

 

[tgrlaw]

If in fact the GPs took her to St Louis, I don't think they knew at the time that she murdered Elizabeth. I would think they would have been charged with something if they had known.

It makes more sense to me that Alyssa either faked or had a true breakdown Wednesday evening, prompting the GPs to take her in. I think after she got there, it came out that she was involved. The GPs then contacted LE who went to the house on Thursday and found the diary. They then arranged for the GPs to bring her back on Friday for questioning.

Just my thoughts. I seriously can't believe the GPs skipped town with her to protect her. I think there would have been charges filed.

Well I don't think they were trying to skip town, either. It's just very odd that a crisis erupts in the home where a missing child was last seen, and LE let the family leave the home. I know they would have been dealing with a juvenile at that time, but don't you think LE should have at least asked a cursory question or two of Alyssa, with her family around. Hey do you know anything about Elizabeth missing? Did you see something? Is that why you're are all freaked out????

Why go all the way to St. Louis? There are crisis beds and facilities within 30 miles of JC. And if Alyssa was in such crisis that evening, why could she up and leave a psychiatric facility after 36 hours voluntarily? She apparently wasn't too bad off. She was in for 10 days in 2007.

 

[hellinor]

Sorry if this is a repeat.
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=51273517001#/News/Alyssa+Bustamante+to+be+tried+as+an+adult/48541678001/48355648001/51273517001

Look familiar? This news report claims that this friend new that she wanted to kill someone!

CR and her Dad are both absolutely crazy!! If my parents had've known one of my friends wanted to have the experience of KILLING SOMEONE!!! My parent wouldn't let me hang around people they thought did drugs or stole, and relatively those things are tame!! I do feel bad for CR as I don't think she expected this and at that age, your friends are everything.

 

[Dal Gal]

Why not use the services of the mental health professionals (Pathways) who have already been treating Alyssa??

From Pathways web site:

24-Hour Crisis Services

Pathways has a strong commitment to responding to mental health/substance abuse crises of area residents. Alleviating a crisis is a difficult task at best, and may need professional assistance. Pathways can provide help with the following services as necessary for the specific situation:

A 24-hour telephone hotline available seven days a week
Next-day appointments with a professional
Face-to-face intervention
Referrals to inpatient hospitalization
23-hour observation beds
Respite beds
Substance abuse services and social detox
Professionals are also available to provide crisis debriefings for community organizations and businesses as well as educational presentations about how the Access Crisis Intervention System works.

Call 1-888-279-8188 if you live in
Johnson, Cass and Lafayette Counties

Call 1-800-833-3915 if you live in
Bates, Benton, Camden, Cedar, Cole, Crawford, Dent, Gasconade, Henry, Hickory, Maries, Miller, LaClede, Osage, Pulaski, Phelps, St. Clair and Vernon Counties

 

[Csquare]

Why St Louis? IF AB was that bad, do you have any idea how long that ride would have been and what it would have been like? IF she was that bad, why was she released as soon as she was? I am trying to add 2 and 2 but I am not coming up with 4.

For those of you that shared your experience with us in ref to cutting, I would like to say thanks and I hope you are better now. I can't even imagine what that would have been like.

 

[W8nC]

It was SOOO cold!! When I got to my car, I cranked the heat up to max. Made it very hard to concentrate, being cold.

The statement about going to St L is on KRCG's website now...
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297

 

[tgrlaw]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=379297

This is KRCG's timeline of what happened.

"Later that night, courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital."

??????

 

[vjlaw]

Maybe when Bustamante saw all the volunteers and LE searching, she went into the real or faked breakdown. I don't know where in JC/Columbia there is a good mental facility that could handle a teenager in some sort of mental state. Maybe she wouldn't talk to the gp's at all, so they just took her to the hospital. They didn't keep her long.

 

[Csquare]

I am just wondering what time they left. Was it before EO was reported as missing or was it after?

 

[hellinor]

totally FUBAR

I AM TOTALLY WITH YOU TLCOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am only 28 and being a teen is feeling farther and farther away as I learn more about this case.......

 

[desquire]

I was not able to attend the afternoon session, and I didn't hear this in the morning hearing.

This would only have come out in the morning session during testimony about Alyssa's mental condition, not at the arraignment. I was sort of skeptical reading it because it seems like a fact that you and Jodi (and all of the other media there) would not have overlooked.

If the story is true, I agree that the grandparents may not have known that night exactly what had happened but when you have hordes of police and volunteers searching your backyard for a girl gone missing after playing at your house and your psychologically troubled grandaughter is somehow acting disturbed, it doesn't take a PhD to put 2 and 2 together. I also sympathize that they would need some time to struggle with the wrenching decision about what to do - I've tried to imagine what I would do if my child had possibly committed an unthinkable crime. But based on everything they have done for the grandchildren, my gut just doesn't think they are the kind of people who would, as Prof aptly put it, leave Elizabeth out there somewhere hurt or dead for a cold rainy night and following day.

 

[vjlaw]

I am just wondering what time they left. Was it before EO was reported as missing or was it after?

The new said "later that night". Not very specific.

 

[Prof]

If she was hysterical and threatening suicide, I could see that. And we really don't know how soon they contacted LE if they really went to St Louis. It could have been very soon after they arrived, which would explain the lack of an Amber Alert. We just don't know.

Then we would know the Sherrif has not been telling the whole truth, because that does not jive with his press releases or statements about how and when he learned about AB's possible involvement--

There are so many things that are still considered rumor in my eyes -- and a lot of the "rumor" that I am referring to came from the news media

We have heard many different stories from the different news media on just some of the logistics of the case; for example

We do not know what phone calls took place the day Elizabeth went missing
We do not know when Elizabeth was last seen by any adult
We do not know where Elizabeth was last seen by any adult
We do not know when Elizabeth was told to go home, who told her to go home, or if anyone told her to go home
We do not know what written evidence lead LE to AB on Friday
(These are just off the top of my head)

It's a bit strange that the stories that do all seem to correspond and match up tend to be stories that do not involve something as concrete as phone records---

I tend to believe the lack of an Amber Alert was simply due to the lack of a witness stating that they saw Elizabeth abducted

 

[Dal Gal]

Jodibug or W8nC, would you mind posting a comment on the page with the statement about StL? Challenge them on the true source of that info, as you were both witnesses to the courtroom testimony that they claim was the source.

 

[Hopeful One]

"Later [on the night EO was reported missing], courtroom testimony revealed Bustmante's family drove her to St. Louis and checked her into a psychiatric hospital."

tgrlaw, you and I think alike. This seems like a pretty huge revelation. I'll go a step farther than "some inkiling" and say that, if true, it means that the gransparents had a reason to know or actual knowledge that Alyssa had done something to Elizabeth. It makes me really curious about exactly when/how/if the Brookes told LE. Can Jodibug or W8nc confirm that this really was the testimony yesterday?

I'm behind and trying to catch up so sorry if I missed it somewhere, but do you have a link to this quote? I'd like to read it. TIA!

ETA: Nevermind, found the link. That's what happens when I post before getting caught up!

 

[lajr56]

Jodibug or W8nC, would you mind posting a comment on the page with the statement about StL? Challenge them on the true source of that info, as you were both witnesses to the courtroom testimony that they claim was the source.

Or perhaps just email or call the reporter. I followed the Coleman murder case very closely. The reporter for the St. Louis Post Dispatch who covers that case has always answered emails from readers that had questions..

 

[danni]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PastorJerry
Sorry if this is a repeat.
http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.as...01/51273517001

"Look familiar? This news report claims that this friend new that she wanted to kill someone! "

I am shocked by this man's demeanor, his off the cuff remark about his daughter knowing AB wanted to kill someone!
Are we thinking that this IS the girl who has the same last name as the ms owner -- the one who has been posting laments about AB to include something about how they were supposed to do it together?

It is the EXACT same person. If you go look at "CR" myspace today her name is now TR! image that. She is seen on tv as TR and now her myspace reflects the same thing! Same one that had some pretty "odd" (to say the lease) pictures of herself on myspace.