MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #12

[wfgodot]

Is there a link to The video of the reinactment? If so could someone share it please. TIA

Here's one, which also is a good wrap of today's events. Going in the window is toward the last:

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...ives-back-at-irwin-home,-recreating-abduction

ETA

Whoops, this is the same one grandmaj linked, I think! Here's another, this one from KMBC:

Police Simulate Break-In At Baby Lisa's Home

 

[gitana1]

SBM, yes the dad's son was there. He has custody but the rage thing is overstated. He gained custody by default, because the son's mother didn't pursue it. I not sure if the mother visits, from what I've read here, she's unavailable at this time. HTH's

I didn't know that. How do you know it's been overstated and the mom just failed to pursue custody? (I have missed a lot. Was out of town).

(snipped, numbered, and bolded by me)

1) I never saw the need to have my daughter in bed with me for just a simple cold. I keep her monitor on and check on her a bazillion times, but she's comfortable in her own bed, and I'd be worried she'd climb or fall out of my bed. That, and my husband snores something awful sometimes. If she was miserable I guess that would be different, but she's really never been sicker than a mild cold, knock on wood. On the other hand, when my son was six, sometimes he would wake up in the night and come crawl into my bed if he got scared or had a bad dream....sometimes I didn't even know he was there until I woke up in the morning.

2) Re: the bold above, I posted something similar earlier. It's the one thing about this case that I'm kind of hung up on.....

Yes, what you said makes sense. I probably seem nutty to many but I don't like babies sleeping alone in a room by themselves. I don't like little kids doing that either. What if someone breaks in or there's a fire?

As a side note, the practice of putting an infant in a bed by itself in another room stems from the late Victorian era, mostly in the United States, and was part of a then new regimen of child rearing including bottles rather than breast feeding, early potty training, letting an infant cry rather than immediately addressing it's needs and having a strict feeding schedule, rather than letting the baby eat when it wants to, etc.

Part of came from the American idea of independence. And having a baby in a nursery in a separate room, alone, is not the usual practice in most of the world. Having European parents, it is a foreign practice to me. Reading about all these abduction cases makes it even less appealing. But as I said, I'm a bit nutty!

 

[thepinkdragon]

I can see why the sister would pass out the fliers at the raceway. It's near the Legends, which is a huge outdoor mall. There are so many people there, every day of the week. It would quickly spread this news to anyone who had been recently living under a rock and not heard of this case yet. I wouldn't necessarily chalk it up to sensationalism.

Oh I do agree it is newsworthy but the news station made it sound like there was a new lead. It had been reported hours earlier that the sister was at the raceway passing out fliers, so in this case they were misleading people to believe it was something that was a lead or a new development. That being said I haven't read the rest of this thread yet and I know I saw something on page 12 about a possible sighting, but I haven't got to that yet.

 

[MsDetective]

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...ives-back-at-irwin-home,-recreating-abduction


I think this is one of the links to the re-enactment

Yes it is TY

 

[captivagrl]

This kidnapper was both lucky AND extremely professional? He or she left no evidence, that we know of, and had detailed intimate knowledge of this family's home, schedules, etc. And, was brazen enough to enter the front of the well lit home and snatch a child so quietly that Mom, two brothers, and a dog heard nothing even with a baby monitor on? It's almost impossible to believe IMO.

 

[wfgodot]

This kidnapper was both lucky AND extremely professional? He or she left no evidence, that we know of, and had detailed intimate knowledge of this family's home, schedules, etc. And, was brazen enough to enter the front of the well lit home and snatch a child so quietly that Mom, two brothers, and a dog heard nothing even with a baby monitor on? It's almost impossible to believe IMO.

Tough to believe, it's true.

 

[dovebar]

Sadly, as with the other cases posted today, it's possible.

 

[katydid23]

You may find this video helpful. Captain Young talks about that lead. Basically it didn't go anywhere.

http://www.kctv5.com/video?clipId=6316770&autostart=true

But what do they mean when they say it " didn't go anywhere?"

In other words, did they find out WHO the man was that was walking around in the middle of the night with a baby that had only a diaper on?

It seems to me that they could go the the house in question, where the man supposedly was about to enter, and ask if there is a baby living there.

If nobody on that street has a little baby that was out on the street at midnight that evening THEN they need to follow up on WHO that might have been.

This is the one thing that makes me believe the parents might be innocent.

IF the perp was truly walking down the street with the baby only in her diaper that night, then he may be a CRAZY man. And that would make more sense of the crazy scene he left behind.

 

[jjenny]

But what do they mean when they say it " didn't go anywhere?"

In other words, did they find out WHO the man was that was walking around in the middle of the night with a baby that had only a diaper on?

It seems to me that they could go the the house in question, where the man supposedly was about to enter, and ask if there is a baby living there.

If nobody on that street has a little baby that was out on the street at midnight that evening THEN they need to follow up on WHO that might have been.

This is the one thing that makes me believe the parents might be innocent.

IF the perp was truly walking down the street with the baby only in her diaper that night, then he may be a CRAZY man. And that would make more sense of the crazy scene he left behind.

Maybe the story itself was not credible?

 

[katydid23]

This kidnapper was both lucky AND extremely professional? He or she left no evidence, that we know of, and had detailed intimate knowledge of this family's home, schedules, etc. And, was brazen enough to enter the front of the well lit home and snatch a child so quietly that Mom, two brothers, and a dog heard nothing even with a baby monitor on? It's almost impossible to believe IMO.

But it does happen that way sometimes. The Van Dam case is one example.

And that Couley freak was also able to do it. And someone posted the Riley Fox devastating case upthread earlier. It does happen sometimes. Sadly.

 

[yllek]

I guess when I look at these unsolved And I feel very comfortable narrowing the list of suspects to a dozen, and I also feel very comfortable that LE has indeed narrowed it down to this couple, even though it is based on JI's words. MOO.

Respectfully snipped for space.

My problem with Mr. Irwin's statement being taken as fact in this matter (other than LE can tell him anything they want and it doesn't have to be true), is that he says he has been cleared too. He doesn't say LE has narrowed suspects down to himself and his fiancee ("the couple"), he says only his fiancee can't be cleared. He also stated on Friday that he hadn't been requested to take an LDT. He then said he would take one "if that's what was necessary". LE may well have told him he didn't need to take an LDT last week. If so, it could be a strategy to work the couple, rather than because they are certain he has no knowledge. I'd be surprised if LE didn't feel he needed to be tested at all. JMO...

 

[katydid23]

Maybe the story itself was not credible?

The detective said publicly that he found the witness to be credible.

 

[RANCH]

I guess when I look at these unsolved cases I do it in a different way. I try to narrow the list of possible suspects as much as possible. If something doesn't make sense, like a random perp getting into the house but putting the screen back on the window, then selecting the right room that the baby is in, then taking three cell phones for no good reason, and just happening to be doing this on the perfect night when the father is gone, I RULE IT OUT. When I rule out something I shouldn't, it doesn't sit right in my thoughts and I end up putting it back as a possibility. In this case, it feels completely correct to rule out anyone who didn't have intimate knowledge of that house, where Lisa was, and the circumstances surrounding JI's work.

That narrows the list down quite a bit, and thankfully so. You see, if a detective doesn't do that, if he is a fence sitter, the case never gets solved.
Granted, we don't get all the information or see all the evidence, so it is harder to make decisions and solve the case. But that is why I am on this website, to try and solve the cases I post on. And I feel very comfortable narrowing the list of suspects to a dozen, and I also feel very comfortable that LE has indeed narrowed it down to this couple, even though it is based on JI's words. MOO.

I'll be totally honest and say that I'm not on this website to solve cases. I'm just not that smart. I do love the different people and their ideas who post here. As for LE narrowing their suspects down to Debbie and Jeremy I'm not so sure. With the small amount of evidence that we have so far, I can't preclude a stranger abduction at this point. MOO.

 

[katydid23]

If I were the parent, I'd want to hear a lot more from LE than "it didn't pan out" about a possible sighting of my daughter one block over around the time she probably disappeared.

To me, that's lazy cop work. It means, "we couldn't find a baby in the area so we dropped it."

Did any of the neighbors in the area go on a trip that day?
Were there any house where no one seemed to be home?
Did they do a full knock-and-talk to all the houses?
Did dogs sniff the area where the baby was seen?
Did neighbors in the area notice their outdoor motion detector lights go on?
How far was that house from the dumpster fire?
Did they put out a description of the man seen carrying the baby?
Was that description posted at the airport to all security personnel?

I'd have a lot of questions for my next 11-hour interrogation.

THANK YOU. My feelings precisely. The detective said that the witness seemed to be credible. So she is a normal, intelligent and honest woman in the neighborhood. She did not make the story up. SO WHAT THE HECK? Who was the guy?

I find it hard to believe a neighborhood father was taking an infant out for a stroll in only a diaper at 2 am in October. He would have him more bundled up if in fact he needed a walk to help him sleep. My teething kids needed a drive in the middle of the night but they had more than just their diapers on at the time.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I'll be totally honest and say that I'm not on this website to solve cases. I'm just not that smart. I do love the different people and their ideas who post here. As for LE narrowing their suspects down to Debbie and Jeremy I'm not so sure. With the small amount of evidence that we have so far, I can't preclude a stranger abduction at this point. MOO.

Your posts add to the collective intelligence on this board that help me hone my theories down. That is what I love about this website. It is full of brilliant people with backgrounds in every profession. The mods keep it clean and sharp. There is so much potential and it already is achieving great things.

 

[wfgodot]

I'll be totally honest and say that I'm not on this website to solve cases. I'm just not that smart. I do love the different people and their ideas who post here. As for LE narrowing their suspects down to Debbie and Jeremy I'm not so sure. With the small amount of evidence that we have so far, I can't preclude a stranger abduction at this point. MOO.

Well-said and me, too. Sometimes I can develop a little bit of a logical line in terms of what might have happened, but I'm not outstanding at it. I think I can evaluate information and sources pretty well, but can't make any grand claims. And exactly, what you said: "I do love the different people and their ideas who post here." Yes! It's fun to be around good people and be part of what could be considered a team, with everyone working toward a single goal. It is fun to be on the side of the angels.

 

[RANCH]

This kidnapper was both lucky AND extremely professional? He or she left no evidence, that we know of, and had detailed intimate knowledge of this family's home, schedules, etc. And, was brazen enough to enter the front of the well lit home and snatch a child so quietly that Mom, two brothers, and a dog heard nothing even with a baby monitor on? It's almost impossible to believe IMO.

I can understand how you feel. In fact the stranger abduction case that I remember the most is Polly Klass. I just looked that case up again to refresh my memory. Her mom, Eve Nichol slept thru the whole thing. It does happen.

 

[redfish]

Maybe the story itself was not credible?

Or it could have been credible and LE does not want to tell the public about it yet. There very well could have been some identifiying information - matching something/someone else they have uncovered.
I do not for a minute believe LE has nothing. They are following some viable information they have either gained from some witness, tip or just their own hard investigating. Today they were either proving a theory or blowing one out of the water! Then again, as some other posters have noted they could be baiting.

We have seen in other cases how important it is for them to walk carefully and quietly to make sure they have everything they need to prosecute, before they tip the perps. and their defending attorneys.

I am just sick so much time has passed without finding Lisa. I hope she is sleeping peacefully in someone's loving arms tonight and will be coming home tomorrow.

 

[grandmaj]

I'll be totally honest and say that I'm not on this website to solve cases. I'm just not that smart. I do love the different people and their ideas who post here. As for LE narrowing their suspects down to Debbie and Jeremy I'm not so sure. With the small amount of evidence that we have so far, I can't preclude a stranger abduction at this point. MOO.

No I can't either. I am spinning in circles here. Some of the parents statements have me :waitasec: and yet I'm not one to jump to the parents as the first suspects generally.

I'm trying to find a way to make the abduction fit and I'm having a hard time. Unless there is something "huge" that has been with-held from us, or also with-held from LE. To me if it is an abduction it is a known person not random.

With that I must lay my tired brain down for the night.

xoxoxoxo

 

[Snowbunny]

Its quite possible that LE is just down playing that lead publically, but behind the scenes they may be investigating that lead to the fullest. LE is not going to show you all their cards nor do they want to tip anyone off. Just a thought.