MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #12

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HatesSociopaths said:
Thanks. If any one can name one I would like to review it.
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I am sorry but I am cross-eyed right now! Review some of the cases in the Spotlight on Crimes Against Children forum. But warning.... you will be a changed person after!
 
redfish said:
I think there is a very good chance that the author of this article is kinda confused about the "key pad". (or maybe not) I can see why LE would keep the knowledge of an alarm system on the down-low. That would certainly eliminate suspects if that were true.
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If there is an alarm system and a code was punched into it the alarm company will have a record of date, time, and code used.
 
"Didn't pan out" could mean did not pan out as being a lead in this case, JMO...
 
Just posting this in case anyone wants to see this on the CBS Early Show
Posted on another thread.

TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - #5
HiHater Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: The Great State of TX


According to Facebook, baby Joshua's story will be on CBS' Early Show tomorrow (10/10) getting some of the NATIONAL coverage people have been asking for!!! Tune in people...never forget this precious little boy!





[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129294"]TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - #5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
Do we know that JI was at work the entire 8 hours or so, or is it possible he left work midshift, which would have been somewhere around midnight. I'm just thinking maybe it's possible he left during his lunch/dinner break and no one was aware he left. Not sure if enough time though, how far was the Starbucks he was working on from his home? Wasn't there a map posted w/ the Starbucks location ? These threads have grown so I don't remember where the map is if anyone has an idea, TIA.

I'm thinking along the lines of JI driving home parking down the street or on another street close by then walking to the house and getting the baby. If the baby was not alive, I hate to be saying this, but there are ways to do this while baby is asleep, (smothering) so she would not cry. Or, it's possible something could have been put in the baby's formula before he left the house. DB said she put the baby to bed at 7:30 with her bottle. The bottle may have been made up before JI left. I don't want to go down this path, but I woke up in the middle of the night with these thoughts. Terrible, but things like this do unfortunately happen.MOO:(
 
Christopher Abeyta was also kidnapped from his crib in the middle of the night. He was 7 months old. There have only been a handful of non-family abductions of infants taken from their cribs. Christopher is my brother and I slept in the next room over from him the night he was kidnapped. We did not hear a thing. My family always cooperated with LE, although I remember my Parents getting upset because they didn't think LE were doing enough. My mom failed the polygraph and once she did LE formed a myopic view and did not thoroughly investigate leads. I know firsthand when my Mom was being interrorgated they told her things like "your baby is at the bottom of the lake being eaten by vernom, just tell us what you did with him" They questioned her for hours upon hours. Ironically they didn't suspect my Dad, yet my Parents slept in the same bed and it was a waterbed! The kidnapper did not turn on any lights in our home and when she left but she did leave the front door open. We didn't have anything else missing, except we had been missing a garage door opener previously. No doubt my family was under suspicion because of the "how could you not hear anything?". "why didn't the baby wake up?" Watching Lisa's disappearance unfold brings back raw emotions and memories, and no family should ever have to endure waking up to an empty crib and the torment of "not knowing". My Parents have never given up searching for their son. We do have a suspect. Her name had been given to LE the day after my brothers disappearance and she was not investigated! It is really unbelievable. My Mom did all of the investigating on her own. Finally a review is being done of my brothers case because of my families persistance. Go to www.findchristopher.com to compare cases.
 
grandmaj said:
There were 3 children in the house. Why the baby? A sick baby who is going to be a handful between teething, a cold, needing more care than an older child like diapers, feedings, baths etc.

I'm having a really difficult time with this theory except for in two cases. Grudge, or some crazed woman who wanted a baby. But, I keep coming back to no one hearing a thing. That bugs me. Opening doors and closing doors, and window screens out and lights being turned on and phones disappearing out of the kitchen? Someone was moving around that house not just a minute or two with a grab and run ya know?

And no one heard a thing even with a baby monitor on?
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well I dont know, I would find that suspicious myself IF it wasnt for 4 years ago, when my now 4 year old was about 6 weeks old, we had someone break in - baby was sleeping with me and the intruder came into that room and stole my SLR and my bag from literally right next to my head on the nightstand...I never heard a thing. I was HORRIFIED that I never heard a thing. I was always such a light sleeper before that time, and now.

I wasnt decent cause baby was nursing and we'd fallen asleep like that. I never heard a thing because I was so exhausted all the time I slept like the dead when I was able to sleep.

in fact, that was something similar to the facts here: dad working midnights (although not for the first time) and forgot to lock the back door. that's how he got in (we know it was a he because he was later caught, he did lots of breakins in the area where doors were unlocked)

let me tell you I never forgot to lock a door again. I always feel almost blessed that at least the guy was only a burglar and nothing worse because the baby and I were so helpless, a newborn baby, with me sleeping and half indecent :(

(although I do wonder, because lisa is 10 month old, I dont know how their sleeping patterns are but I am just saying, you might not believe it, I never would have before, but if you're tired enough you might well sleep right through all sorts)
 
denalves said:
Christopher Abeyta was also kidnapped from his crib in the middle of the night. He was 7 months old. There have only been a handful of non-family abductions of infants taken from their cribs. Christopher is my brother and I slept in the next room over from him the night he was kidnapped. We did not hear a thing. My family always cooperated with LE, although I remember my Parents getting upset because they didn't think LE were doing enough. My mom failed the polygraph and once she did LE formed a myopic view and did not thoroughly investigate leads. I know firsthand when my Mom was being interrorgated they told her things like "your baby is at the bottom of the lake being eaten by vernom, just tell us what you did with him" They questioned her for hours upon hours. Ironically they didn't suspect my Dad, yet my Parents slept in the same bed and it was a waterbed! The kidnapper did not turn on any lights in our home and when she left but she did leave the front door open. We didn't have anything else missing, except we had been missing a garage door opener previously. No doubt my family was under suspicion because of the "how could you not hear anything?". "why didn't the baby wake up?" Watching Lisa's disappearance unfold brings back raw emotions and memories, and no family should ever have to endure waking up to an empty crib and the torment of "not knowing". My Parents have never given up searching for their son. We do have a suspect. Her name had been given to LE the day after my brothers disappearance and she was not investigated! It is really unbelievable. My Mom did all of the investigating on her own. Finally a review is being done of my brothers case because of my families persistance. Go to www.findchristopher.com to compare cases.
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Denalves, I can't begin to tell you how sorry I am for your loss and how sorry I am for what your family has endured. I'm so glad they are reopening the case and I hope and pray they find the answers all of you deserve to have.

God Bless you.
 
Denalves, welcome, and thank you for sharing your story about Christopher. I'm so sorry to read what you and your family have been through. :hug:

It might be uncommon statistically, but stranger abductions do happen, babies are taken from homes. So far I am seeing no motive or guilt from the parents in baby Lisa's case. I think they were emotionally and physically drained from being interrogated by police last week, and things broke down because of that. Ive been so hopeful that now that they are all talking again, that new leads could be found - but now with nothing new overnight again, I wonder if it's too late, and perhaps LE has developed tunnel vision on the parents being guilty?

But then again, there was the re-enactment of a break in yesterday, so perhaps that shows they are exploring all possibilities.

As others, including myself, have said, I do think that the only other person said to have been questioned and had a DNA sample taken - the teen - is a possible key in this case. This person could fit with the only few facts we have surrounding Lisa's disappearance. Familiarity with baby and the family's routine, familiarity with the house, being known to the dog, and thus the dog not barking; the sighting of someone with a baby, and could have walked the distance to the dumpster fire. I can think of several scenarios as to WHY the teen might have done this, but won't speculate that far as mods asked us not to.

Anyway, a big :sigh: from me as I was so hoping that there would be more news this a.m. I thought things were coming to a head on Saturday, but now it looks like everything is sort of back to square one. :(
 
Gardenlady said:
Denalves, welcome, and thank you for sharing your story about Christopher. I'm so sorry to read what you and your family have been through. :hug:

It might be uncommon statistically, but stranger abductions do happen, babies are taken from homes. So far I am seeing no motive or guilt from the parents in baby Lisa's case. I think they were emotionally and physically drained from being interrogated by police last week, and things broke down because of that. Ive been so hopeful that now that they are all talking again, that new leads could be found - but now with nothing new overnight again, I wonder if it's too late, and perhaps LE has developed tunnel vision on the parents being guilty?

But then again, there was the re-enactment of a break in yesterday, so perhaps that shows they are exploring all possibilities.

As others, including myself, have said, I do think that the only other person said to have been questioned and had a DNA sample taken - the teen - is a possible key in this case. This person could fit with the only few facts we have surrounding Lisa's disappearance. Familiarity with baby and the family's routine, familiarity with the house, being known to the dog, and thus the dog not barking; the sighting of someone with a baby, and could have walked the distance to the dumpster fire. I can think of several scenarios as to WHY the teen might have done this, but won't speculate that far as mods asked us not to.

Anyway, a big :sigh: from me as I was so hoping that there would be more news this a.m. I thought things were coming to a head on Saturday, but now it looks like everything is sort of back to square one. :(
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In our case, we looked at everyone we knew and everyone who had ever been in our home. My Mom even went to the library and pulled obituaries and followed up on anyone who had lost a baby/child in our city. My mom's thinking was that someone had to have seen Christopher (he was a very happy baby), and was emotionally distraught over the loss of their child and wanted another child desperately. More cases than not the abductor is someone who is acquainted with the family and usually from the area. But to take an infant and to take the risk of going in the home and being heard/caught, you obviously are not mentally well. My brothers kidnapping suspect had a past history of breaking in to homes and there are numerous police reports by her stating her home had been broken in to. It is hard to imagine a teenager being able to hold a baby without waking the baby, grab 3 cellphones without dropping one, and then closing the door behind them not making noise. And Motive is the question that needs to be answered.

In regard to the lights, the kidnapper either had to find the light switches in the dark or knew where the light switches were which meant they were familiar with the home. In my brothers case, our suspect had been in the home before. She had been stalking my family.
 
alwayslooking said:
I don't know if any of you saw this story, but good lord....It shows what could happen if someone really wants your baby!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...net-stolen-GRANDMOTHER-58-tried-pass-own.html
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Yes, I followed baby Ramys case here,and I keep thinking of her while following Lisa's case. Unbelievable, isn't it? Ramys parents were also suspected, like Lisas, and like Lisas Mom, slept through the abduction. Thank god for the two men who called in the tip about Grandma!
 
cleo612 said:
Why is no one searching near the creek and/or river? It is within easy walking distance to the home.

I do not understand the focus of this investigation, AT ALL.

It just feels, to me, as though someone is trying to fine tune a bad case of tunnel vision.
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I don't get it either..statistically she is not alive which makes searching the waterways early even more important to get the body for evidentiary purposes.
 
denalves said:
In our case, we looked at everyone we knew and everyone who had ever been in our home. My Mom even went to the library and pulled obituaries and followed up on anyone who had lost a baby/child in our city. My mom's thinking was that someone had to have seen Christopher (he was a very happy baby), and was emotionally distraught over the loss of their child and wanted another child desperately. More cases than not the abductor is someone who is acquainted with the family and usually from the area. But to take an infant and to take the risk of going in the home and being heard/caught, you obviously are not mentally well. My brothers kidnapping suspect had a past history of breaking in to homes and there are numerous police reports by her stating her home had been broken in to. It is hard to imagine a teenager being able to hold a baby without waking the baby, grab 3 cellphones without dropping one, and then closing the door behind them not making noise. And Motive is the question that needs to be answered.

In regard to the lights, the kidnapper either had to find the light switches in the dark or knew where the light switches were which meant they were familiar with the home. In my brothers case, our suspect had been in the home before. She had been stalking my family.
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I don't believe the teenager did this. I do believe the person who did was someone who knew the family and had been in the house. The cell phones would easily slip into pockets. imo

Its hard to say who it was or why they did it. I just hope and pray they find her alive.

I hope reopening the investigation of your brother's kidnapping is successful. Fresh eyes might be a good thing. I sure hope so!
 
redfish said:
The one above that several of us have been discussing!
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I keep asking myself why they would have security system for the garage and not for the house? :waitasec: Nevertheless, I'm hoping the question why this teen had access codes to any security even if it was just the garage should be answered. Did he work for the Irwins? Did they owe him money? Would that be a motive to snatch a 10 month old baby? Why a baby when there could be other things he could have taken?

I agree with those who think if baby Lisa was abducted, the perp knew her/his way around the house and where all the light switches are and more.
 
SilkySifaka said:
I don't get it either..statistically she is not alive which makes searching the waterways early even more important to get the body for evidentiary purposes.
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In regard to my brothers case. We lived a few blocks from a lake and LE drained the lake. My family was very frustrated with that decision, because my parents were looking for their baby and LE was wasting valuable time looking for a body. We felt the motive had to be because someone wanted a baby, not to murder him. Who would take a 7 month old to murder a couple blocks away? In retrospect I know that LE had formed tunnel vision and felt someone in the family was responsible and therefore they drained the lake. In the mean time the kidnapper is getting away with it. In the early stages of the investigation LE needs to be pro-active, rather than re-active. I always felt like my brothers detectives just reacted to leads coming in rather than actually going out and "investigating". I now know that was the case. My brothers detectives lacked the experience. There are more investigating resources available now than there were 25 years ago.
 
~n/t~ said:
I keep asking myself why they would have security system for the garage and not for the house? :waitasec: Nevertheless, I'm hoping the question why this teen had access codes to any security even if it was just the garage should be answered. Did he work for the Irwins? Did they owe him money? Would that be a motive to snatch a 10 month old baby? Why a baby when there could be other things he could have taken?

I agree with those who think if baby Lisa was abducted, the perp knew her/his way around the house and where all the light switches are and more.
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It is not a security system. It's to open the garage door from the outside. I have one.

http://saepudin.com/the-garage-door-keypads.html
 
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