MO - Police officer fatally shoots Vonderrick Myers in south St. Louis #2

[krimekat]

I don't understand how Senator Nasheed and Alderman French have kept their positions? They both have been horrible influences in this mess for the last 2 months. Antonio French should be concerned about the ward he was elected to serve, instead of the protesting. He's been helping to "keep the peace" in Ferguson, meanwhile more bodies are showing up weekly in his ward and those cases aren't even close to being solved.

StL politics -- I'd place Chappelle in that category, too, as well as other City Alderman . . . it's the power of Voting!

 

[katydid23]

Wouldn't be a bad idea. But perhaps the same advice could be given to LE. By witness reports, DW dropped an F-bomb in his initial interaction with MB, telling him to "Get the F... on the sidewalk". One has to wonder if things might have gone differently without the initial crudeness and hostility from DW. I'm not saying things would have gone differently, but who knows, and as they say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Dorian is the only one that said that the cop used the F word. And Dorian has severe credibility problems. I highly doubt that OW said that in his INITIAL drive by. MAYBE he cursed at them when he had to back up as they were still in the street? But I don't think he began the interaction that way. There are no reports from anyone, that OW ever used profanity with the public. Even the few that came forward after he arrested them, never made that claim.

And Dorian lied about numerous things in his initial version of the story. Like saying he had just run into MB walking down the street and joined him, as opposed to being in the market w/him during the robbery. And Dorian has an open case of lying to police in a previous case. So I would not assume he was truthful when he made that claim. jmo :cow:

 

[katydid23]

Matt Pearce ‏@mattdpearce 2m2 minutes ago
STL police union planning to release "two key pieces of evidence not previously released to the public" today in Vonderrit Myers' shooting.

I have no idea what the evidence t be released is. But I do know that the local protestors will call it 'fake' and 'phony' and call it proof of a coverup. :facepalm:

 

[Montjoy]

Dorian is the only one that said that the cop used the F word.

Actually, we don't know this as we do not have access to all witness statements. I would also add that it would be terribly naive of anyone here (not referring to you specifically, of course) to think that most LE do not swear frequently. I know many LE, but I do not know a single one who doesn't swear like a sailor.

 

[katydid23]

I don't think someone should be aUTOMATICALLY rejected from employment because of prior arrest/conviction. SOME people should be given a second chance. I know people who had rocky pasts who have changed their lives around. Often it was drugs that derailed them and if they stay sober they are great employees and productive citizens.

But if someone has a history of violence, then I would hesitate to hire them for certain jobs.

 

[DebinGA]

The problem I see in VM's case is that he wasn't seen doing anything illegal when the officer initially spotted him and his two companions walking down, I assume, the neighborhood sidewalk at a reasonable hour. They weren't in the street were they? Did they fit the description of burglars that had just been called in? I don't think it's unreasonable for black guys in that somewhat yuppie area to want to evade LE on sight, but his/their flight is what alerted the officer and resulted in the chase. As it turned out VM was illegally armed and dangerous, but the officer didn't know that until later. Where I see the experienced officer's instinct proven true, most blacks imo would see a clear example of racial profiling, i.e. walking while black.

 

[katydid23]

Actually, we don't know this as we do not have access to all witness statements. I would also add that it would be terribly naive of anyone here (not referring to you specifically, of course) to think that most LE do not swear frequently. I know many LE, but I do not know a single one who doesn't swear like a sailor.

I know a lot that swear also, in friendly social situations. But have not seen them do so while working with the public. Maybe OW did say that to them. But I personally do not believe Dorian. I think his version,that they replied " we are almost to our destination" is a joke.

 

[katydid23]

The problem I see in VM's case is that he wasn't seen doing anything illegal when the officer initially spotted him and his two companions walking down, I assume, the neighborhood sidewalk at a reasonable hour. They weren't in the street were they? Did they fit the description of burglars that had just been called in? I don't think it's unreasonable for black guys in that somewhat yuppie area to want to evade LE on sight, but his/their flight is what alerted the officer and resulted in the chase. As it turned out VM was illegally armed and dangerous, but the officer didn't know that until later. Where I see the experienced officer's instinct proven true, most blacks imo would see a clear example of racial profiling, i.e. walking while black.

The cop looked their way and they took off running. That is why he followed them. If they hadn't started running he wouldn't have any reason to interact with them. So that is not racial profiling. jmo


ETA:

Here’s how it went down, according to Police Chief Sam Dotson: at 7:30 Wednesday night, in Shaw, Mo, an off-duty police officer (who was nonetheless wearing his St. Louis police uniform, because he was working a security job) passed three men he thought looked suspicious. As he moved in to get a closer look, the guys ran away, so he went after them. One of them apparently grabbed his waistband in a way that “indicated he was carrying a weapon,” so the cop decided to focus his chase on him. Eventually, he caught up with the guy; after a brief struggle, the teenager, Myers, fired a gun three times, and the cop responded in full — he shot the young man 17 times, killing him.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/4346...derrit-myers-jr-could-become-another-ferguson

 

[Dogface]

I agree that had he just approached them randomly that would have been profiling. However, if you start running when you see a cop/security that tells me something is up. And that it should be pursued. A normal, law abiding citizen going about their day doesn't just run when they see LE/security.

 

[katydid23]

Vonderrick had an ankle monitor on. He was not supposed to be out on the streets, armed, with his pals. So when the cop first looked their way, I am sure they reacted in a suspicious manner. They would have automatically had some body language, some clues, that an experienced officer would pick up on. So he wanted to get closer to check it out and they ran.

The officer was doing exactly what he was paid to do. Vonderrick had an open charge, out on bond, for carrying illegal weapon and resisting arrest. They were in a high speed car chase and got caught. So here he is now, waltzing around after dark, ARMED, hanging with his same crew, wearing his ankle bracelet. I don't see any reason to criticize the officer for attempting to question him.

 

[DebinGA]

It's the officer's initial seeing "men he thought looked suspicious" as he drove by that's problematic imo. Not to someone like me who's never known someone who's ever been arrested, but to urban blacks who know many who've been stopped/pursued based on initial perceptions like this officer's.

I'm speaking of how this encounter is likely viewed through blacks' eyes, not mine.

 

[LambChop]

The cop looked their way and they took off running. That is why he followed them. If they hadn't started running he wouldn't have any reason to interact with them. So that is not racial profiling. jmo


ETA:

Here’s how it went down, according to Police Chief Sam Dotson: at 7:30 Wednesday night, in Shaw, Mo, an off-duty police officer (who was nonetheless wearing his St. Louis police uniform, because he was working a security job) passed three men he thought looked suspicious. As he moved in to get a closer look, the guys ran away, so he went after them. One of them apparently grabbed his waistband in a way that “indicated he was carrying a weapon,” so the cop decided to focus his chase on him. Eventually, he caught up with the guy; after a brief struggle, the teenager, Myers, fired a gun three times, and the cop responded in full — he shot the young man 17 times, killing him.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/4346...derrit-myers-jr-could-become-another-ferguson

And how many wounds did they say he had. I thought there were 6, 2 of which were believe to have been exit wounds. So that is 4 times if the exit wounds are true. Where do they get shot 17 times?

 

[katydid23]

It's the officer's initial seeing "men he thought looked suspicious" as he drove by that's problematic imo. Not to someone like me who's never known someone who's ever been arrested, but to urban blacks who know many who've been stopped/pursued based on initial perceptions like this officer's.

But Vonderrick was walking around wearing an ankle monitor, and a gun. So when the cop passed by, they probably DID look suspicious. I am sure he drove past other blacks on the street, and didn't try to stop them. But when these three saw the cop car, they probably REACTED in a way that caught the cops attention.

I used to work in a high school. I 'worked' the yard during lunch breaks looking for trouble. I could walk past a hundred kids, no problem. But then three would look up at me as I approached, and from their body language, i could tell if there was something up. If I approached there would be quick movements of hiding things, or pained expressions, etc. LOL But it was not racial, it was body language, and reactive behaviors that would clue me in.

 

[katydid23]

And how many wounds did they say he had. I thought there were 6, 2 of which were believe to have been exit wounds. So that is 4 times if the exit wounds are true. Where do they get shot 17 times?

Bella kept saying he was 'shot 17 times', while narrating during his vigil. I corrected it during the chat. I said' he shot 17 times, but he did not hit VM 17 times.' And they said 'same difference.' Whatever that means. lol

 

[prayers4missing]

I'll say this. I am white, my husband is black, and we live in the St Louis area. My husband has been "harassed" by the police many many many times over the years. We call it walking/driving while black. The difference between my 40 year old husband and the "kids" today are my husband was taught how to respond when this happens. He doesn't take off running, he doesn't get an attitude, he respectfully hands over his ID and when they find out he is a fine upstanding citizen they let him go, and they are respectful to him. It sucks that it happens, but it does. I don't know how to change the police perception though. When you are in an city that is riddled with gangs, drugs, and murders you tend to stereotype everyone based on statics.

In the Bevo area Bosnian gangs are an issue, when cops see young Bosnian men acting suspicious they profile them as being a problem. In North City where black gangs are an issue, young black men acting suspicious make cops jump to conclusions. I can go on and on. I think the bottom line is sometimes LE stereotyping is what saves their and our lives.

 

[prayers4missing]

And how many wounds did they say he had. I thought there were 6, 2 of which were believe to have been exit wounds. So that is 4 times if the exit wounds are true. Where do they get shot 17 times?

All I've heard locally was the Officer shot 17 times, but VM was only hit 4 times. I could be wrong about that though.

 

[reedus23]

It's the officer's initial seeing "men he thought looked suspicious" as he drove by that's problematic imo. Not to someone like me who's never known someone who's ever been arrested, but to urban blacks who know many who've been stopped/pursued based on initial perceptions like this officer's.

I'm speaking of how this encounter is likely viewed through blacks' eyes, not mine.

You're right on track as far as what some in the black community will have a problem with. It is also why I don't get the weakening of a position by insisting it was a sandwich instead of a gun. If I were part of the black community, the focus for me wouldn't be who shot at who first, but why was he even pursued in the first place. What crime did the officer have a reasonable suspicion was being broken when he saw them.

 

[katydid23]

I'll say this. I am white, my husband is black, and we live in the St Louis area. My husband has been "harassed" by the police many many many times over the years. We call it walking/driving while black. The difference between my 40 year old husband and the "kids" today are my husband was taught how to respond when this happens. He doesn't take off running, he doesn't get an attitude, he respectfully hands over his ID and when they find out he is a fine upstanding citizen they let him go, and they are respectful to him. It sucks that it happens, but it does. I don't know how to change the police perception though. When you are in an city that is riddled with gangs, drugs, and murders you tend to stereotype everyone based on statics.

In the Bevo area Bosnian gangs are an issue, when cops see young Bosnian men acting suspicious they profile them as being a problem. In North City where black gangs are an issue, young black men acting suspicious make cops jump to conclusions. I can go on and on. I think the bottom line is sometimes LE stereotyping is what saves their and our lives.

My kids are mixed race. My daughter, is now 22. But when she was a teen, she had 2 groups of friends. One was primarily white, the other primarily black. She says that when she was with her white friends, the cops still pulled them over, or interacted with them, but it was more relaxed.

When she was with her black friends, it was more tense when they were pulled over. And the cars would be searched and the males were frisked.

It was definitely a different attitude from LE.

 

[nothingnew]

Bella kept saying he was 'shot 17 times', while narrating during his vigil. I corrected it during the chat. I said' he shot 17 times, but he did not hit VM 17 times.' And they said 'same difference.' Whatever that means. lol

So then the cop was shot 3 times, using Bella math?
Can't wait to hear this new evidence!

 

[katydid23]

My kids are mixed race. My daughter, is now 22. But when she was a teen, she had 2 groups of friends. One was primarily white, the other primarily black. She says that when she was with her white friends, the cops still pulled them over, or interacted with them, but it was more relaxed.

When she was with her black friends, it was more tense when they were pulled over. And the cars would be searched and the males were frisked.

It was definitely a different attitude from LE.

ETA: i have to also add that it was a different attitude from the kids. The black kids were much more antagonistic as well. So it is a repetitive cycle.