Nancy Grace 9-22 Show - Father of Caseys' ex on tonight!

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

I think that's a possibility, Thinking_Out_Loud.

I remember seeing R. Grund's MySpace account and it's full of dragons and monsters or something. Just put me on notice that he's "Different."

I did find in the transcript from NG last night where he said he hadn't seen Casey OR his son Jesse since Caylee went missing. That is not true. I'll have to look for a link, but he definitely did a video with Jesse and they both were talking about the polygraph exam and that Jesse was not involved in any way. I think that would be a little harder to "forget."

The other thing that was odd to me was that Jesse called LE right away when he heard that Caylee was missing. They asked him if he could think of anything out of the ordinary and he said he couldn't and hung up. The next day, he remembered that he had talked to Casey on the (I think it was the 24th of June) and he was positive he heard Caylee in the background. He also reported that Casey had come to his place to "use the shower" because her boyfriend was out of town..."nothing out of the ordinary, though." Come on...didn't he wonder where the heck she was sleeping with Caylee if she needed to use HIS shower? I would think that was very "out of the ordinary." Maybe I'm just suspicious...

Then, after thinking about it again, he called LE back to say that he was sure he had talked to Casey, and he was almost positive he heard Caylee, but he wouldn't swear to that in court. [Insert music from Twilight Zone]

I want to think the best of this family, but there is something in the back of my mind that is telling me, "something is NOT right here." (Is the back of my mind where my hinky-meter is located? Anyone?)

I will do some more looking for the video... but this is getting weirder by the day...Absolutely!:Banane47:

Snip

Oh yeah, you better believe that is weird! I had a friend come over and visit one day. At the time, I was living at home and had a full bathroom in my bedroom. He was sitting on my bed, and started to look around. Then uncomfortably asked if he could use my shower. I remember being confused and thought it strange. I told him that it was okay and there were towels in under my sink. Let me tell you though.. If LE knocked on my door right now and asked me about anything weird that happened in 2005, I could tell them everything about that. It is bizarre when someone borrows your shower out of the blue, and that is a fact you remember.

 

[passin_through]

Casey or Cindy accused him of being overprotective of his son

Wonder if that had much to do with them requesting a paternity test? Good thing they did! Goodness, child support you name it, that's quite a saddle for young people to take on over just a statement *you're the dad*! Bet your bottom dollar I would want one for my kid, if they were not married and young.

 

[BetsyB]

This tidbit is respectfully snipped:

What I think is that this is the Casey they have known all along. They have all just been played, snowed all along and never realized it until her web of lies, mess of a life all caught up to her and exploded in her face!

I am the daughter of a sociopath, and aunt to another. I agree with this statement. It took me--and this is no exaggeration--almost 40 years to really understand that my father is a sociopath. It took even longer to accept.

Up until then, there were so many red flags that...well, it's quite amazing there was room for anything other than red flags in our lives. But the charm and the manipulation and the "love" were stronger. Every red flag had an explanation. And because we were (*ahem*) "normal," it really was outside our realm of experience to attribute his words and actions to anything other than genuineness; after all, it would never occur to us to behave in outrageously immoral ways.

As time went on, of course, niggling doubts crept in, and it became more difficult to swallow escalating morally depraved behavior. But even then, we WANTED the lies to be true. There was very definitely a protracted period of time during which my siblings and I knew that there was something very wrong, but did not want to believe it because the implications were simply too scary. There also was a good deal of shame involved: shame that we had this depraved person in our family and even deeper shame that we had not been smart enough to figure it out.

What changed everything was an abrupt, severe shift that rendered it unimportant to him that that we bought what he was selling. We first became objects of his wrath, then we were discarded when we were no longer useful.

In other words, he used us until he didn't need to any longer, at which point he turned on us viciously.

I'm sharing this because we're hearing over and over that "The Casey we're seeing today isn't the one we knew." Jesse's father stated this last night. He said that the Casey who watched football with his family just wasn't the same young woman we now see.

I would argue that this is NOT because Casey has become something she wasn't. She always was something she wasn't, because she is a void. She dons the mask best suited to attain what she desires at a particular point in time. She is empty.

Sociopaths often function well and excel. Sometimes, they do so for their entire lives; there are many high-ranking government officials, executives and military officials who are sociopaths. (For more information about this, I recommend The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout, PhD.)

My sisters and I used to joke that we lived with the only person who could walk all over us, and we'd say, "Thank you for the privilege of being abused." This really is a pretty apt description of what it feels like to live with a sociopath.

But the jig is up for Casey, and her sociopathic behavior has become more incredible and therefore more obvious to others. But I'd bet every penny I have that she's been at it her whole life. It's just that many of the people in her life have not had the time and opportunity to start putting two and two together. Everyone reaches that point differently--and some never are able to accept it.

Also, apropos of nothing in particular, because different people enter our lives at different stages, there are always those who continue to think that the sociopath is the cat's pajamas--which helps explain frequent shifts in social circle and superficial relationships. People whose exposure is limited never really see past the mask. And oh---the mask is impeccably applied.

 

[CarrieBean]

RG actually said: "up until May, June, her controlled mess of a life is running fine."

At first, I lol'd a little at this comment, but then if you think about his other statements....he talks about how different she is now....but in that statement he is saying he always thought she was "messed up" a bit.

I think they just perceived her as being different. She lied to them about Jesse being the father, about still having her job at Universal, and (seemingly) about having a nanny. It appears that Casey was Casey all along, they just didn't have her figured out.

 

[passin_through]

I wonder if Casey and JG would have stayed together and eventually had gotten married, would we be on this site today?? Probably not.. Not saying I think she harmed her daughter, I still am on the fence (no attacks please), but she did something...But if she would have gotten that love from a man that she seemed to have craved, maybe that little girl wouldnt be lost.

From what we've read, I don't think Casey would have been faithful, appears even then she wasn't.

 

[Everly]

I thnk I missed something.. Why did Cindy blame JG for breakup?? Isn't her daughter the one who lied about him being the daddY??? That alone is enough for a break up. And JG tried to make it work, he bonded with that baby from what I hear.. What did Cindy do??

JG blamed Cindy for the breakup. He said on Geraldo she was controlling, I believe. He made it sound like she didn't like him having any control or influence over Casey.

 

[yankeesbelle04]

I just want to say one thing.. I still believe that RG was genuine last night about his feeling for Caylee ..I now dont understand why on one interview this is said, on another something else is said.. But I still do believe he is genuine, and wants Caylee found, and will do anything to help. I agree with the poster who said that CAsey tore JG's heart out.. I agree, I think he was devasted when he found out Caylee wasnt his, and he probably was beyond devasted when he found out she was missing.. RG said that JG and Casey started speaking again because he didnt want to be shut out of Caylee's life.. JG definately had an emotional bond with this baby.. Too bad he isnt her daddy..Maybe then she would be safe.

 

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

I wonder if Casey and JG would have stayed together and eventually had gotten married, would we be on this site today?? Probably not.. Not saying I think she harmed her daughter, I still am on the fence (no attacks please), but she did something...But if she would have gotten that love from a man that she seemed to have craved, maybe that little girl wouldnt be lost.

Maybe... but I'm thinking that if she was really a party girl and a murderer underneath it all, then this was inevitable. When I read your post, my mind quickly thought of the following scenario: She marries JG. Cheats on JG and parties behind her back. He forgives her a few times. They get divorced. Then she is jobless, crazy, and doesn't want JG to have Caylee. She would probably murder her child or other possible children just because she thinks "If I can't have them, no one can".

Of course, this is a hypothetical and who knows really?

 

[yankeesbelle04]

JG blamed Cindy for the breakup. He said on Geraldo she was controlling, I believe. He made it sound like she didn't like him having any control or influence over Casey.

I dont want to rag on Cindy or anything, b/c quite frankly, I dont believe she knows where Caylee is like some believe.. I think she is a control freak and I believe JG's statement above.. My mom is a control freak, and the stories that I could tell you about my mom would make you wonder why I still speak to her..I'm a 28 year old married mommy, and my mother tries to control my marriage, our decisions, everything.. So I definately believe it.

With that being said, I do NOT blame Cindy for any of what has happened. Being controlling is not crazy, it's not murderous, although I'm sure it could lead to that in severe cases... I just think Cindy wanted what was best for Caylee and didnt think that Casey was giving it to her??

 

[Amity]

I am the daughter of a sociopath, and aunt to another. I agree with this statement. It took me--and this is no exaggeration--almost 40 years to really understand that my father is a sociopath. It took even longer to accept.

Up until then, there were so many red flags that...well, it's quite amazing there was room for anything other than red flags in our lives. But the charm and the manipulation and the "love" were stronger. Every red flag had an explanation. And because we were (*ahem*) "normal," it really was outside our realm of experience to attribute his words and actions to anything other than genuineness; after all, it would never occur to us to behave in outrageously immoral ways.

As time went on, of course, niggling doubts crept in, and it became more difficult to swallow escalating morally depraved behavior. But even then, we WANTED the lies to be true. There was very definitely a protracted period of time during which my siblings and I knew that there was something very wrong, but did not want to believe it because the implications were simply too scary. There also was a good deal of shame involved: shame that we had this depraved person in our family and even deeper shame that we had not been smart enough to figure it out.

What changed everything was an abrupt, severe shift that rendered it unimportant to him that that we bought what he was selling. We first became objects of his wrath, then we were discarded when we were no longer useful.

In other words, he used us until he didn't need to any longer, at which point he turned on us viciously.

I'm sharing this because we're hearing over and over that "The Casey we're seeing today isn't the one we knew." Jesse's father stated this last night. He said that the Casey who watched football with his family just wasn't the same young woman we now see.

I would argue that this is NOT because Casey has become something she wasn't. She always was something she wasn't, because she is a void. She dons the mask best suited to attain what she desires at a particular point in time. She is empty.

Sociopaths often function well and excel. Sometimes, they do so for their entire lives; there are many high-ranking government officials, executives and military officials who are sociopaths. (For more information about this, I recommend The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout, PhD.)

My sisters and I used to joke that we lived with the only person who could walk all over us, and we'd say, "Thank you for the privilege of being abused." This really is a pretty apt description of what it feels like to live with a sociopath.

But the jig is up for Casey, and her sociopathic behavior has become more incredible and therefore more obvious to others. But I'd bet every penny I have that she's been at it her whole life. It's just that many of the people in her life have not had the time and opportunity to start putting two and two together. Everyone reaches that point differently--and some never are able to accept it.

Also, apropos of nothing in particular, because different people enter our lives at different stages, there are always those who continue to think that the sociopath is the cat's pajamas--which helps explain frequent shifts in social circle and superficial relationships. People whose exposure is limited never really see past the mask. And oh---the mask is impeccably applied.

I'm leaving this whole post in tact because it is worth it's weight in gold.
BetsyB, I'm so sorry you went through all of that....my heart goes out to you (((Betsy))) and your siblings.

You said in the most eloquent way something I've been trying to say in several posts over the last couple months but could never quite make it understood because I sorely lack the ability to put my thoughts into words.

What you said makes all the sense in the world to me and I'm sure others, who might not have quite understood before, will 'get it' after reading your post.

Thank you for sharing what you did with us, that took courage.
Blessings to you and yours.

 

[yankeesbelle04]

Maybe... but I'm thinking that if she was really a party girl and a murderer underneath it all, then this was inevitable. When I read your post, my mind quickly thought of the following scenario: She marries JG. Cheats on JG and parties behind her back. He forgives her a few times. They get divorced. Then she is jobless, crazy, and doesn't want JG to have Caylee. She would probably murder her child or other possible children just because she thinks "If I can't have them, no one can".

Of course, this is a hypothetical and who knows really?

This thought is eerily parallel to her relationship with Cindy..But your right, if she did harm Caylee, it most likely was inevitable.. Still hoping she didnt harm her though.. Not confident about that, just hoping!

 

[bobodedoo]

IMO all of these friends of Casey's who are "suddenly" coming forward to talk to the media are going to be defense witnesses. "The Casey we know now is not the Casey that we knew then." We here this repeated over and over from one friend to yet another.

Very possible and I respect your opinion, but could it be that these folks are merely answering the question that everyone is asking, including us in the threads with Exit and Dante? I'm pretty sure there are several instances where these folks are asked on several occasions whether they've listened to the tapes and if KC on the tapes sounds like the KC they've known.

I do have to agree with your other comment and others here, this was and is KC, but the real KC was great at "appearances".

Just my own humble opinion, as always.

 

[yankeesbelle04]

This tidbit is respectfully snipped:

I am the daughter of a sociopath, and aunt to another. I agree with this statement. It took me--and this is no exaggeration--almost 40 years to really understand that my father is a sociopath. It took even longer to accept.
.

I'm starting to wonder if my mother is a sociopath (seriously!)

 

[Everly]

They have, as far as I can tell, only gotten comments from friends who knew her as quiet, not a drinker, very concerned Mommy, etc. The drinkers, druggers, dancers, sleeparounds-- are they talking? Telling about "the Casey I know"?

I think Casey was who she needed to be for the crowd or person she was with at the moment.

Practically every picture of her I see, she doesn't really look like she is part of the crowd she is with but more like she just stuck her face into the picture to look like part of them. It's almost like she Photoshopped herself into situations, but she was never really "there."

 

[yankeesbelle04]

Hope I dont get in trouble for this because if I get kicked off this site, what would I do! LOL.. But I emailed RG to see if he would come speak here.. Do you think that was a bad idea? I really want the air cleared.. To think someone was genuine and have other people doubt it...I really want him to clear all this up.

Update- He hasnt responded yet, but he read the email.

 

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

They have, as far as I can tell, only gotten comments from friends who knew her as quiet, not a drinker, very concerned Mommy, etc. The drinkers, druggers, dancers, sleeparounds-- are they talking? Telling about "the Casey I know"?

I think Casey was who she needed to be for the crowd or person she was with at the moment.

Practically every picture of her I see, she doesn't really look like she is part of the crowd she is with but more like she just stuck her face into the picture to look like part of them. It's almost like she Photoshopped herself into situations, but she was never really "there."

She is a chameleon!
I have been called a chameleon before but I think it was out of context. Someone thought it was odd that I was always a good girl when I was at work and school, but I was more outgoing when I was just around friends. Could it have been that I wanted to keep my job and not get kicked out of school? I'd like to think so...but I get your point. She changes her colors when she is with different people. It sounds like she aims to please.

 

[princess]

If Jesse has been cleared, taken a lie detector test, why are we allowed to discuss him? And no one say you aren't, because hinting the father is lying is related. I don't care if he is discussed, but, if we can talk like this, why can we not discuss Zenaida things?????
Does not make any sense
:waitasec:

Maybe becasue Jesse knew her personally but that Z is a perfect stranger to all..:blowkiss:

 

[shannon718]

True, unless Lee or George is the father. Wasn't there a DNA issue? That Caylee's and Casey's were exact or near exact?

I don't like the A's at all but I don't believe that theory whatsoever. It has no basis in fact and won't seem to go away....

 

[yankeesbelle04]

She is a chameleon!
I have been called a chameleon before but I think it was out of context. Someone thought it was odd that I was always a good girl when I was at work and school, but I was more outgoing when I was just around friends. Could it have been that I wanted to keep my job and not get kicked out of school? I'd like to think so...but I get your point. She changes her colors when she is with different people. It sounds like she aims to please.

OH MY GOD, that's the exact thing I thought when I had read that other comment as well! How funny!

 

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

OH MY GOD, that's the exact thing I thought when I had read that other comment as well! How funny!

You think I was called a chameleon out of context to? Man, that is weird. You don't even know me! Psychic! :waitasec:

J/K. haha:crazy: