NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sept 2012 #1

[Simplestarz86]

I came across http://www.vidocq.org/. VIDOCQ Society can assist in investigating a crime. Cases must be submitted to them via LE or a family member. Not all are accepted but I do feel even though it has been four years, fresh eyes are needed.


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[abricru]

I have so many theories, but that unidentified DNA throws a monkey wrench in all of them. Starting to wonder.. Could the lab have made some kind of mistake, mixed up DNA samples, and sent the police the wrong one? It's possible, isn't it? Highly unlikely but it wouldn't hurt to get the sample(s) analyzed again?

 

[Boodles]

Does anyone remember from where, specifically, the DNA sample was obtained? If it was from semen, it could be unrelated to her murder. She left the library for awhile, perhaps to visit a BF, that night.

I'll say it again, I think Karena knows what happened. If she does, I don't know how she can live with herself, leaving Faith's family in the dark. Karena's Latino...maybe someone close to her?

 

[Webthrush]

My understanding (but subject to correction!) is that the semen sample(s) were on Faith and/or her clothing or the bedding, and that the semen-DNA matched other touch-DNA from certain objects in the room, including possibly the murder weapon, bag-note, and marker pen, and police feel confident all that DNA belongs to the perp.

 

[Whiskers16]

Does anyone remember from where, specifically, the DNA sample was obtained? If it was from semen, it could be unrelated to her murder. She left the library for awhile, perhaps to visit a BF, that night.

I'll say it again, I think Karena knows what happened. If she does, I don't know how she can live with herself, leaving Faith's family in the dark. Karena's Latino...maybe someone close to her?

iirc the same DNA profile was identified from semen, the Time Out bag, and the pen used to write the message on the Time Out bag.

for whatever reason this fact seems too convenient to me. I have always wondered if the DNA was planted, like someone planted the semen and wiped some on the bag and pen. it would not be difficult to obtain a random male's DNA if a female were involved in planning and willing to have a random hookup.

 

[Skigirl]

iirc the same DNA profile was identified from semen, the Time Out bag, and the pen used to write the message on the Time Out bag.

for whatever reason this fact seems too convenient to me. I have always wondered if the DNA was planted, like someone planted the semen and wiped some on the bag and pen. it would not be difficult to obtain a random male's DNA if a female were involved in planning and willing to have a random hookup.

I don't agree. If you were trying to get semen from an unwitting donor, it would not be at all simple. Even if you found a female who was willing to have sex with this donor in order to obtain the semen, you'd have contamination from the woman, who would also be identifiable. It would be trivially easy to see if more than one person's DNA was in a sample. Maybe I misunderstood this comment.

 

[Webthrush]

iirc the same DNA profile was identified from semen, the Time Out bag, and the pen used to write the message on the Time Out bag.

for whatever reason this fact seems too convenient to me. I have always wondered if the DNA was planted, like someone planted the semen and wiped some on the bag and pen. it would not be difficult to obtain a random male's DNA if a female were involved in planning and willing to have a random hookup.

Seems like there’s an interesting, major chasm between those who surmise this was a premeditated crime, planned out well in-advance, and those who perceive it as a crime of impulse or out-of-control rage, and never intended to include murder...

[on edit, will acknowledge it could be BOTH: a premeditated/planned crime that did not include murder, but which then got out-of-control.]

 

[Whiskers16]

I don't agree. If you were trying to get semen from an unwitting donor, it would not be at all simple. Even if you found a female who was willing to have sex with this donor in order to obtain the semen, you'd have contamination from the woman, who would also be identifiable. It would be trivially easy to see if more than one person's DNA was in a sample. Maybe I misunderstood this comment.

I was thinking if they used protection and it was maybe tossed in the garbage can but retrieved by the female. I hadn't considered whether any of the female's dna could end up being detected in it as a result.. fair point.

 

[Skigirl]

Seems like there’s an interesting, major chasm between those who surmise this was a premeditated crime, planned out well in-advance, and those who perceive it as a crime of impulse or out-of-control rage, and never intended to include murder...

[on edit, will acknowledge it could be BOTH: a premeditated/planned crime that did not include murder, but which then got out-of-control.]

I agree it's interesting how varied the perceptions are; I can sort of see it either way: someone was super-angry with her and planned to do her harm, or it was an impulsive, opportunistic crime. I don't believe it was well planned to the point of involving more than one person and planting evidence. I could see it having been committed by someone who was very angry with her and was just waiting for her to be alone and vulnerable so he could do her very serious harm if not kill her.

I can't shake the nagging feeling that the drama swirling around her roommate and all their potential suitors could be a bunch of red herrings, and that rather, it was someone in the periphery of her circle. Maybe someone who had been attracted to her and knew her from Red Robin.

 

[borndem]

Does anyone remember from where, specifically, the DNA sample was obtained? If it was from semen, it could be unrelated to her murder. She left the library for awhile, perhaps to visit a BF, that night.

I'll say it again, I think Karena knows what happened. If she does, I don't know how she can live with herself, leaving Faith's family in the dark. Karena's Latino...maybe someone close to her?

bbbm -Were we told from where the DNA was found? Blood on the bottle (or elsewhere) that was not Faith's, if not semen?

obbm - Agree, unless Karena was in on the crime. ??

MOO

 

[J.M. Bee]

I think the focus should be on Karena Rosario for a number of reasons.

(see post below)

 

[J.M. Bee]

I think the focus should be on Karena Rosario for a number of reasons.

One, she was the last person to see Faith Hedgepeth alive.

Two, the odds that someone else entered that apartment in the hours b/t 4am and 10am? are very, very low.

Three, the brutality of the crime suggests the killer knew Faith well and was in a furious rage about something.

Four, there is the neighbor's description of Karena's demeanor the next day, which does not fit with a grieving and traumatized close friend.

Most important, though, is the issue of how someone else would have entered the apartment and what Karena Rosario apparently said about this.

According to what I have read, Rosario said that she left the door unlocked when she left. But this makes absolutely no sense. If she were leaving her friend alone in the apartment at 4am, she would obviously lock the door. If she forgot to lock the door for some reason, she would not remember not locking the door, as the only reason she would have failed to lock the door is that she was not thinking about this at all.

Therefore, the only reason Rosario would tell police the door was unlocked --- if this is in fact what she told police --- is to make them believe that someone else could have entered the apartment after she left. And the only reason she would want them to think that is if she herself committed the crime.

I also think the note and the murder weapon --- the bottle of alcohol --- point towards Rosario as well.

The semen is a red herring, I think, as I believe there was little to no evidence of sexual assault and Faith could have had consensual sex earlier in the night when she visited the boy after the library.

I don't know what to make of the voice-mail tape. That bit is confusing and may also be a red herring.

What do others think?

 

[Simplestarz86]

I think the focus should be on Karena Rosario for a number of reasons.

One, she was the last person to see Faith Hedgepeth alive.

Two, the odds that someone else entered that apartment in the hours b/t 4am and 10am? are very, very low.

Three, the brutality of the crime suggests the killer knew Faith well and was in a furious rage about something.

Four, there is the neighbor's description of Karena's demeanor the next day, which does not fit with a grieving and traumatized close friend.

Most important, though, is the issue of how someone else would have entered the apartment and what Karena Rosario apparently said about this.

According to what I have read, Rosario said that she left the door unlocked when she left. But this makes absolutely no sense. If she were leaving her friend alone in the apartment at 4am, she would obviously lock the door. If she forgot to lock the door for some reason, she would not remember not locking the door, as the only reason she would have failed to lock the door is that she was not thinking about this at all.

Therefore, the only reason Rosario would tell police the door was unlocked --- if this is in fact what she told police --- is to make them believe that someone else could have entered the apartment after she left. And the only reason she would want them to think that is if she herself committed the crime.

I also think the note and the murder weapon --- the bottle of alcohol --- point towards Rosario as well.

The semen is a red herring, I think, as I believe there was little to no evidence of sexual assault and Faith could have had consensual sex earlier in the night when she visited the boy after the library.

I don't know what to make of the voice-mail tape. That bit is confusing and may also be a red herring.

What do others think?

I agree with the majority of what you said! I think KR had help afterwards. Maybe a close friend male or...female. I think something is fishy with the friend who was with KR when "discovering" Faith's body.


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[Skigirl]

I think the focus should be on Karena Rosario for a number of reasons.

One, she was the last person to see Faith Hedgepeth alive.

Two, the odds that someone else entered that apartment in the hours b/t 4am and 10am? are very, very low.

Three, the brutality of the crime suggests the killer knew Faith well and was in a furious rage about something.

Four, there is the neighbor's description of Karena's demeanor the next day, which does not fit with a grieving and traumatized close friend.

Most important, though, is the issue of how someone else would have entered the apartment and what Karena Rosario apparently said about this.

According to what I have read, Rosario said that she left the door unlocked when she left. But this makes absolutely no sense. If she were leaving her friend alone in the apartment at 4am, she would obviously lock the door. If she forgot to lock the door for some reason, she would not remember not locking the door, as the only reason she would have failed to lock the door is that she was not thinking about this at all.

Therefore, the only reason Rosario would tell police the door was unlocked --- if this is in fact what she told police --- is to make them believe that someone else could have entered the apartment after she left. And the only reason she would want them to think that is if she herself committed the crime.

I also think the note and the murder weapon --- the bottle of alcohol --- point towards Rosario as well.

The semen is a red herring, I think, as I believe there was little to no evidence of sexual assault and Faith could have had consensual sex earlier in the night when she visited the boy after the library.

I don't know what to make of the voice-mail tape. That bit is confusing and may also be a red herring.

What do others think?

I don't think Rosario did it; I don't think one can read much into demeanor when someone is in absolute shock, and we have never heard any sort of motive for a murder...plus, there are the statistics. Woman-on-woman murder is the least common. Plus, level of violence is pretty high for a lot of serial killers who don't know their victims, so I don't really think it necessarily means that she knew her killer, either (though the note on the bag suggests to me that she did). That said, who knows? It's certainly not impossible.

Do we know she went to visit a boy after the library? Can someone please provide a link? Does anyone know who this person is and if he looks like the composite? Because right there is my number one suspect!

I think that the voicemail is a total red herring and that the self-appointed "expert" really did the case a disservice. All I hear on that voicemail is a bunch of people clowning around in a club with very loud music and some shouting to be heard over it.

 

[Simplestarz86]

I don't think Rosario did it; I don't think one can read much into demeanor when someone is in absolute shock, and we have never heard any sort of motive for a murder...plus, there are the statistics. Woman-on-woman murder is the least common. Plus, level of violence is pretty high for a lot of serial killers who don't know their victims, so I don't really think it necessarily means that she knew her killer, either (though the note on the bag suggests to me that she did). That said, who knows? It's certainly not impossible.

Do we know she went to visit a boy after the library? Can someone please provide a link? Does anyone know who this person is and if he looks like the composite? Because right there is my number one suspect!

I think that the voicemail is a total red herring and that the self-appointed "expert" really did the case a disservice. All I hear on that voicemail is a bunch of people clowning around in a club with very loud music and some shouting to be heard over it.

In the timeline it says between the time Faith and KR were in the library, Faith steps out and visits the apartment of a male friend and then returns to the library. He has not been identified publicly. https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews....ments-police-happened-faith/story?id=42281581. In the actual 20/20 segment it states "male friend"


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[Whiskers16]

I'm not completely counting out the male friend she visited when away from the library, but I think it's unlikely she was having consensual sex that day given a removed tampon was found at the murder scene. And unlikely that with a tampon in there would be enough residual semen to be planted on her. I believe that was how it was described (eta: "on her" not "planted on her").

eta: i always feel kinda awkward analyzing these details but any little detail could be the one that helps get justice for Faith.

 

[Simplestarz86]

I'm not completely counting out the male friend she visited when away from the library, but I think it's unlikely she was having consensual sex that day given a removed tampon was found at the murder scene. And unlikely that with a tampon in there would be enough residual semen to be planted on her. I believe that was how it was described (eta: "on her" not "planted on her").

eta: i always feel kinda awkward analyzing these details but any little detail could be the one that helps get justice for Faith.

I've been thinking the very same thing since those details were released



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[Webthrush]

We can only shoot in the dark with speculation, and folks have created all manner of scenarios, but I’ve often thought the simplest explanation is that someone (1 or more males), quite possibly previous strangers to Karena and Faith, simply took a fancy to one or both girls that night, and either followed them home or got their address while at the Club and came by later (drunk or under influence of drugs perhaps), probably with plans to ‘have a good time’ and things got out-of-hand — Faith may not have even been a specific target, but simply taken advantage of when she was found alone. Given how much time law enforcement has spent with Faith’s “circle” of acquaintances it’s hard for me to imagine it’s any of them. ...My two cents (and certainly plenty of other possibilities).

 

[eeyorelrn]

I truly believe LE knows who murdered Faith. I also believe there is some MAJOR impasse that LE has come across which they cannot overcome (i.e. an alibi they cannot disprove, an inability to either obtain or match DNA, some sort of contradictory-but not exculpatory- evidence) at this point. I do think that as time passes, peoples memories of what stories they 'locked' themselves into will fade and then they will finally slip up and the truth will come out.

 

[Skigirl]

We can only shoot in the dark with speculation, and folks have created all manner of scenarios, but I’ve often thought the simplest explanation is that someone (1 or more males), quite possibly previous strangers to Karena and Faith, simply took a fancy to one or both girls that night, and either followed them home or got their address while at the Club and came by later (drunk or under influence of drugs perhaps), probably with plans to ‘have a good time’ and things got out-of-hand — Faith may not have even been a specific target, but simply taken advantage of when she was found alone. Given how much time law enforcement has spent with Faith’s “circle” of acquaintances it’s hard for me to imagine it’s any of them. ...My two cents (and certainly plenty of other possibilities).

I agree with you that the explanation probably is pretty simple... is it possible that Rosario knew some guys from the club came by and was even there when they arrived and left the door unlocked when she left because there were still guys or a guy there? Until this moment, I thought that she said that when she left, Faith was asleep or alone in the bedroom, but now that I think of it, I'm not totally positive that she was quoted as saying that, or if I just assumed that. I just watched part of this: http://abcnews.go.com/US/friend-murdered-unc-student-describes-moment-found-body/story?id=42287084 and the detective who is interviewed, who seems to be picking her words pretty carefully, says, "at that time when she left the apartment, she knew faith to be in bed, in the bedroom."

Is it possible that LE has just held a detail that Faith was in the apartment with someone when Rosario left back from the public for some reason? Seems implausible that that wouldn't have leaked out by now, doesn't it? Did Rosario just say she forgot to lock the door? Or was there a reason to leave it unlocked? I might not have locked it behind me if I left an apartment with a guy in it.

I had forgotten some things.

1) FBI did a profile and they believe:
- Killer knew her
- May have lived nearby (knew the location, door was not chosen at random)
- Believe the killer has made comments about Faith to people
- Killer may take an unusual interest in the case (may have gone online to talk about it...hi killer...)

I mean, I knew LE believed all of that at one point, but I guess I had forgotten that they got that from the FBI.

2) Time-Out bag was from a purchase the day before by Faith. Also, no blood on the bag suggested that killer wrote it after her death and had spent some time in the apartment cleaning himself up.