ND ND - Thomas 'Tom' Bearson, 19, Fargo, 20 Sep 2014 #3

[CantNotCare]

So let me ask this to anyone who might know---because I have no idea. What does LE do with an 18 yr old student who is an inebriated individual: has lack of balance, needs to be buckled in to keep from sliding in the patrol car, thinks the vehicle is moving when it’s stationary, and is vomiting? I would think he needed to go somewhere, like a medical facility, for observation to make sure his condition doesn't deteriorate. If not, then what would LE do with him after they cite him---just throw him in jail? Isn't that asking for a law suit if he goes down hill while in jail since he wouldn't get constant observation there?

That would be called the "drunk tank" in the local jail, and as you could all see Tom's charge indicated 2 days incarceration. Did he spend that time in jail? Right now, none of us appear to know for sure. If a charge of just inebriation (no DUI or they are a minor/under 18 years) and does not require any incarceration, they can be sent with an individual who will "watch over" them, and take responsibility. It may require them being bailed out if they are not a minor AND another charge such as indecent exposure, public nuisance, disorderly conduct etc. is involved and they are arrested for another charge that constitutes a jail sentence.

 

[melodyl]

So let me ask this to anyone who might know---because I have no idea. What does LE do with an 18 yr old student who is an inebriated individual: has lack of balance, needs to be buckled in to keep from sliding in the patrol car, thinks the vehicle is moving when it’s stationary, and is vomiting? I would think he needed to go somewhere, like a medical facility, for observation to make sure his condition doesn't deteriorate. If not, then what would LE do with him after they cite him---just throw him in jail? Isn't that asking for a law suit if he goes down hill while in jail since he wouldn't get constant observation there?

I'm not an expert but my first thought upon hearing that he went to the medical center was because of his level of inebriation. I would certainly want LE to take my son for medical assistance if he were exhibiting the same behaviors/symptoms that TB was noted to be exhibiting.

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[CantNotCare]

So let me ask this to anyone who might know---because I have no idea. What does LE do with an 18 yr old student who is an inebriated individual: has lack of balance, needs to be buckled in to keep from sliding in the patrol car, thinks the vehicle is moving when it’s stationary, and is vomiting? I would think he needed to go somewhere, like a medical facility, for observation to make sure his condition doesn't deteriorate. If not, then what would LE do with him after they cite him---just throw him in jail? Isn't that asking for a law suit if he goes down hill while in jail since he wouldn't get constant observation there?

Plenty of inebriated individuals have hung themselves in jails, and lawsuits are pretty few and far between, and rarely won.

 

[CantNotCare]

I'm not an expert but my first thought upon hearing that he went to the medical center was because of his level of inebriation. I would certainly want LE to take my son for medical assistance if he were exhibiting the same behaviors/symptoms that TB was noted to be exhibiting.

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I completely concede, however, that is not the way the system works once they are 18 years of age, if the charge indicates any incarceration. Once the law is broken, and they are 18 years of age and above, it is out of Ma & Pa's hands, other than to bring the checkbook, and take the loved one home or for care ~or~ let them feel the consequences in jail. I believe most parents would bring the checkbook (if able), and seek care if needed (and if not too proud or embarrassed, sadly sometimes the case).

 

[Rocco]

That would be called the "drunk tank" in the local jail, and as you could all see Tom's charge indicated 2 days incarceration. Did he spend that time in jail? Right now, none of us appear to know for sure. If a charge of just inebriation (no DUI or they are a minor/under 18 years) and does not require any incarceration, they can be sent with an individual who will "watch over" them, and take responsibility. It may require them being bailed out if they are not a minor AND another charge such as indecent exposure, public nuisance, disorderly conduct etc. is involved and they are arrested for another charge that constitutes a jail sentence.

It appears from the court records, he received 20 hours of community service in lieu of 2 days in jail. Who could they have turned him over to, to 'watch over' him and take responsibility for monitoring his condition since he didn't have any adult relatives in town? I may be the only one but I don't find it odd he was taken to a medical facility for observation due to his condition and age. Perhaps he was observed there for a few hours, then taken to jail, and then made his appearance in court at 10:30am.

 

[Rocco]

I'm not an expert but my first thought upon hearing that he went to the medical center was because of his level of inebriation. I would certainly want LE to take my son for medical assistance if he were exhibiting the same behaviors/symptoms that TB was noted to be exhibiting.

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Me too. I think any parent would expect that to be done. That's why I don't think it was odd to take him to a medical facility.

 

[CantNotCare]

It appears from the court records, he received 20 hours of community service in lieu of 2 days in jail. Who could they have turned him over to, to 'watch over' him and take responsibility for monitoring his condition since he didn't have any adult relatives in town? I may be the only one but I don't find it odd he was taken to a medical facility for observation due to his condition and age. Perhaps he was observed there for a few hours, then taken to jail, and then made his appearance in court at 10:30am.

Are you looking at that from a context of what seems like the "right thing to do" and what parents want or from the context of what LE and medical facilities do under those circumstances? His age was 18 y/o, and his condition was BAC 0.181 (inebriated to the point of impaired). LE considers their jails safe for inebriated and sober individuals. They use surveillance equipment that requires monitoring, and if safety is a concern, then it is every 15 minute checks.
That is an interesting question, who would he have been turned over to for supervision?

 

[CantNotCare]

Medical facilities are NOT in the business of taking in inebriated individuals over 18 years to care for them, UNLESS there is a health issue (alcohol poisoning, physical injury), or a blood draw is needed (refusal to blow or looking for other impairment other than alcohol). Signs of impairment (listed in article) do not constitute medical care. Medical facilities are not "sober up" housing.

 

[Rocco]

Are you looking at that from a context of what seems like the "right thing to do" and what parents want or from the context of what LE and medical facilities do under those circumstances? His age was 18 y/o, and his condition was BAC 0.181 (inebriated to the point of impaired). LE considers their jails safe for inebriated and sober individuals. They use surveillance equipment that requires monitoring, and if safety is a concern, then it is every 15 minute checks.
That is an interesting question, who would he have been turned over to for supervision?

I'm looking at the overall picture from the perspective of what LE may have been thinking. This 18 year old student is away from home, in bad shape, and may have more going on with him than just a BAC of more than twice the limit. They couldn't/didn't know for sure, so took the prudent action of taking him to a medical facility rather than directly to jail and putting him the 'drunk tank'.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Being severely inebriated is absolutely a reason to bring an inmate to a hospital. NOT doing so is negligent. Drunk people are legally recognized as impaired. Police officers are not nurses. They are legally responsible to assure this care is taken and I'll guarantee that there are protocols in place with a big old black and red algorithm on the wall showing just exactly when and where to make that decision.

MORE than in any other medical situation, intoxication can be quite accurate in it's assessment due to the fact that they can draw blood alcohol levels on that individual to assist in making that decision.

Very simple, Inmate intoxicated?---> Yes. Inmate blood alcohol level above XX? Yes------> Inmate physically ill? Yes------>Call and transport.

That simple.

I love simple.

I love algorithms.

 

[IBsleuthin]

I'm looking at the overall picture from the perspective of what LE may have been thinking. This 18 year old student is away from home, in bad shape, and may have more going on with him than just a BAC of more than twice the limit. They couldn't/didn't know for sure, so took the prudent action of taking him to a medical facility rather than directly to jail and putting him the 'drunk tank'.

They've got protocols to help take the wonder right out of that decision.

 

[Rocco]

Medical facilities are NOT in the business of taking in inebriated individuals over 18 years to care for them, UNLESS there is a health issue (alcohol poisoning, physical injury), or a blood draw is needed (refusal to blow or looking for other impairment other than alcohol). Signs of impairment (listed in article) do not constitute medical care. Medical facilities are not "sober up" housing.

Medical facilities are for medical observation of someone's condition though. And I believe that's why he was taken there. JMO

 

[CantNotCare]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I am a fan of this and especially not if it were to involve my loved one, but it is what it is.

 

[CantNotCare]

I'm looking at the overall picture from the perspective of what LE may have been thinking. This 18 year old student is away from home, in bad shape, and may have more going on with him than just a BAC of more than twice the limit. They couldn't/didn't know for sure, so took the prudent action of taking him to a medical facility rather than directly to jail and putting him the 'drunk tank'.

Now we're getting somewhere.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Medical facilities are NOT in the business of taking in inebriated individuals over 18 years to care for them, UNLESS there is a health issue (alcohol poisoning, physical injury), or a blood draw is needed (refusal to blow or looking for other impairment other than alcohol). Signs of impairment (listed in article) do not constitute medical care. Medical facilities are not "sober up" housing.

Algorithms. The officers do this for a living. They deal with drunks every single day. If they brought some kid into the ER it's because he was displaying the symptoms to fit the criteria within the algorithm.

They aren't out there Willy Nilly.

 

[CantNotCare]

Medical facilities are for medical observation of someone's condition though. And I believe that's why he was taken there. JMO

I'm sorry but medical facilities are not for medical observation of the inebriated. Actual medical condition (injury, alcohol poisoning), blood draw, yes...but not just for symptoms of inebriation.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Here's something else to keep in mind. Police officers are not trained to assess medical conditions or history. They aren't so don't even argue that point.

If they have someone who is greatly drunk, they don't know what other medical conditions this person may have. Is he a diabetic? Does he have a heart condition? What else is going on here?

It doesn't always have to be drugs on board.

IF a police officer has a concern about an inmate they absolutely, positively can bring them right on in for an evaluation and observation just to clear that patient for take off.

 

[CantNotCare]

Being severely inebriated is absolutely a reason to bring an inmate to a hospital. NOT doing so is negligent. Drunk people are legally recognized as impaired. Police officers are not nurses. They are legally responsible to assure this care is taken and I'll guarantee that there are protocols in place with a big old black and red algorithm on the wall showing just exactly when and where to make that decision.

MORE than in any other medical situation, intoxication can be quite accurate in it's assessment due to the fact that they can draw blood alcohol levels on that individual to assist in making that decision.

Very simple, Inmate intoxicated?---> Yes. Inmate blood alcohol level above XX? Yes------> Inmate physically ill? Yes------>Call and transport.

That simple.

I love simple.

I love algorithms.

I respectfully disagree, from first hand knowledge.

 

[CantNotCare]

Medical facilities are for medical observation of someone's condition though. And I believe that's why he was taken there. JMO

I'm sorry but medical facilities are not for medical observation of the inebriated. Actual medical condition (injury, alcohol poisoning), blood draw, yes...but not just for symptoms of inebriation.

 

[IBsleuthin]

I'm sorry but medical facilities are not for medical observation of the inebriated. Actual medical condition (injury, alcohol poisoning), blood draw, yes...but not just for symptoms of inebriation.

Unfortunately you are wrong on this point. Depending on the medical facility and what is going on with that patient, you bet they are in the business of observation. ESPECIALLY if a police officer brings that person in.

Nurses are specifically trained in observation and it's part of their nursing protocol. This I know as well as I know my own social security number.