ND ND - Thomas 'Tom' Bearson, 19, Fargo, 20 Sep 2014 #3

[Rocco]

I'm sorry but medical facilities are not for medical observation of the inebriated. Actual medical condition (injury, alcohol poisoning), blood draw, yes...but not just for symptoms of inebriation.

I disagree. That's exactly what they're for when you have an 18yr old student away from home in the condition he was in. He clearly needed observation from someone in the medical field, not someone observing him while he was in a drunk tank.

 

[CantNotCare]

Here's something else to keep in mind. Police officers are not trained to assess medical conditions or history. They aren't so don't even argue that point.

If they have someone who is greatly drunk, they don't know what other medical conditions this person may have. Is he a diabetic? Does he have a heart condition? What else is going on here?

It doesn't always have to be drugs on board.

IF a police officer has a concern about an inmate they absolutely, positively can bring them right on in for an evaluation and observation just to clear that patient for take off.

Have you forgotten that jails have their own nurses on staff and on-call?

 

[IBsleuthin]

I respectfully disagree, from first hand knowledge.

Well, then there is a difference of opinion and it most likely has to do with policy and procedure differences in your facility. I also have first hand knowledge and you are wrong on this point, in every single facility I have ever worked in.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Have you forgotten that jails have their own nurses on staff and on-call?

Maybe where you live, but not where I do. Not all jails are the same.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Medical facilities that have an in house treatment center have trained professionals that will come right on down to the ER and offer an evaluation on that patient. I know this. I do . I know this.

 

[CantNotCare]

Maybe where you live, but not where I do. Not all jails are the same.

The jail in your location does not have nurses as paid staff available 24/7?

 

[Rocco]

Have you forgotten that jails have their own nurses on staff and on-call?

'On call' isn't the same as a nurse being right there doing the observing and monitoring vital signs.

 

[Confusion]

If you're found to be ridiculously drunk around here, they take you to the hospital for an evaluation, and if there's no emergency need, you're taken to detox. You have to stay there until all alcohol is out of your system and you have a sober ride home.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Observation is a standard of procedure by legal description of any RN in an ER.

Even within the standard if there are differences in wording from state to state, does not matter. This is a requirement.
In any hospital in the state I live in, the facility is legally REQUIRED and cannot turn away anyone when they present themselves at the doors of the ER.

Check with your board of nursing.

 

[IBsleuthin]

If you're found to be ridiculously drunk around here, they take you to the hospital for an evaluation, and if there's no emergency need, you're taken to detox. You have to stay there until all alcohol is out of your system and you have a sober ride home.

Beautifully written and I'm so glad you showed up. This is exactly the truth and exactly how it is here. They will even hold you until you are medically stable and then release you to the custody of the jail.

 

[CantNotCare]

Medical facilities that have an in house treatment center have trained professionals that will come right on down to the ER and offer an evaluation on that patient. I know this. I do . I know this.

I hope you are not taking this as me trying to prove you wrong because I am sure that areas can differ. Is it your belief that inebriated individuals REQUIRE medical supervision and observation? Or just under some circumstances? Can you please explain what circumstances that we do not know of Tom's situation that might have required this? The description in the article explaining his DUI to me define impairment. Many inebriated individuals vomit, have poor balance, and have bed spins....not a medical emergency. Otherwise, the bars would be calling ambulances right and left.

 

[CantNotCare]

Observation is a standard of procedure by legal description of any RN in an ER.

Even within the standard if there are differences in wording from state to state, does not matter. This is a requirement.
In any hospital in the state I live in, the facility is legally REQUIRED and cannot turn away anyone when they present themselves at the doors of the ER.

Check with your board of nursing.

I believe he started out being arrested. In your location, it is customary for law enforcement to bring all arrested individuals who are inebriated and exhibiting the signs and symptoms (that law enforcement described to media as being seen in Tom) in for medical observation?

 

[IBsleuthin]

'On call' isn't the same as a nurse being right there doing the observing and monitoring vital signs.

Even if they called a nurse in, that nurse absolutely must be under the supervision of a licensed medical doctor. The nurse may be called in to assess and report but the nurse would still be following protocol.

 

[IBsleuthin]

I believe he started out being arrested.

You know, I understand what you are trying to get across here. But the truth of the matter is these cops aren't just bringing in some barely over the limit person to sit around in the ER and take up space for observation.

If they haul someone into the ER it's because they have legitimate concerns about the physical state of health of that person. Being severely drunk is a medical condition. In effect it's a varying degree of alcohol poisoning. That's what it medically is. It's all just a matter of degrees.

People can come in with symptoms of a heart attack and be held for observation.

A CLASSIC example of this is during the flu season with small kids, they come in dehydrated and are given IV's and held for observation without being admitted to the general medical floor.

I can observe you as you walk through the lobby and write that in the notes and it becomes a legal part of your chart. Observe and report.

 

[CantNotCare]

'On call' isn't the same as a nurse being right there doing the observing and monitoring vital signs.

Vital signs can easily be taken by a nurse in a jail setting, and observation can be achieved as well.

 

[IBsleuthin]

I could sit here until tomorrow and tell stories from real life about people who were arrested under the suspicion of intoxication when in fact they were having a life threatening diabetic reaction and they were brought to the ER for observation.

Or they hit their head in an accident and were also drunk and were brought in for observation.

Or they were in a fight and got knocked out and they are drunk and were brought in for observation.

Or they were drunk and laughing on Halloween with their boyfriend and because they were drunk they forgot to close the car door all the way and when they went around a corner the car door flew open and she tumbled out and she's brought in for observation.

Or, the person that was arrested for public intoxication but started breathing funny because they had a heart problem and asthma and they were brought in for observation.

With the right donuts and pop in front of me I could go all night with this.

 

[Confusion]

I believe he started out being arrested. In your location, it is customary for law enforcement to bring all arrested individuals who are inebriated and exhibiting the signs and symptoms (that law enforcement described to media as being seen in Tom) in for medical observation?

I believe it is customary to take arrested individuals who are too inebriated to function to be evaluated. If they aren't coherent enough to state needs if they should arise, if they can't walk well enough to leave a building that might be burning, if they're showing signs of severe depression and possible suicidal ideations, if they show signs of mental illness, which may or may not be caused by the alcohol, they are evaluated. LE isn't trained to diagnose or treat these problems, and they shouldn't be expected to. Once they have been evaluated, they are sent to jail, detox, a psych ward/state hospital or wherever seems the most appropriate place.

MOO

 

[IBsleuthin]

I believe it is customary to take arrested individuals who are too inebriated to function to be evaluated. If they aren't coherent enough to state needs if they should arise, if they can't walk well enough to leave a building that might be burning, if they're showing signs of severe depression and possible suicidal ideations, if they show signs of mental illness, which may or may not be caused by the alcohol, they are evaluated. LE isn't trained to diagnose or treat these problems, and they shouldn't be expected to. Once they have been evaluated, they are sent to jail, detox, a psych ward/state hospital or wherever seems the most appropriate place.

MOO

Yes! and thank you. You worded this much better than I could have. I've been trying to for an hour but I couldn't get it together.

 

[Rocco]

Vital signs can easily be taken by a nurse in a jail setting, and observation can be achieved as well.

So you think they should have put him in jail and called a nurse in to take his vitals and observe him constantly? I doubt that ever happens. IMO, LE did the right thing. They saw he was compromised and weren't sure what all was going on with him. He was an 18 yr old student from out of town, no adult relative to call, so they took him to a medical facility for an eval and to be monitored until he was in a condition that allowed him to go to jail.

 

[CantNotCare]

I believe it is customary to take arrested individuals who are too inebriated to function to be evaluated. If they aren't coherent enough to state needs if they should arise, if they can't walk well enough to leave a building that might be burning, if they're showing signs of severe depression and possible suicidal ideations, if they show signs of mental illness, which may or may not be caused by the alcohol, they are evaluated. LE isn't trained to diagnose or treat these problems, and they shouldn't be expected to. Once they have been evaluated, they are sent to jail, detox, a psych ward/state hospital or wherever seems the most appropriate place.

MOO

So, which place do you think Tom went afterwards? We know it wasn't jail, that was forfeited in lieu of community service, right? Must have been to detox or just home to his dorm? Probably not psych ward, or state hospital.