ND ND - Thomas 'Tom' Bearson, 19, Fargo, 20 Sep 2014 #3

[east2west]

So...out of several people being at this so called "party" until 3:40 am. We only hear from one publicly that Tom was there. Why would that be? Wouldn't everyone present confirming that information make it more believable? It would to me. If one could say that, why can't they all? Only one person going out on a limb on this?
Just thinking out loud here. What are all of your thoughts on that?

I'm still confused why Jake never tweeted anything further about the "we are so lost and going to die" tweet. A few hours later he was posting retweets from his own twitter account. No mention though of being "found" or glad to be "alive". We still have no information on how Jake and Tom made it to the trap after being lost. Did someone pick them up or did they walk to the trap.? We only have CMs tweet that Tom was seen at the trap after the tweet. What about Jake?

Imo...the "lost" tweet was not innocent. I think something might have been occurring at the time that tweet was sent. If in fact Tom was seen at the trap after the "lost" tweet, maybe the perp followed him there after an earlier altercation and waited for him to leave the trap.

Yes....back to the tweets/retweets/and deleted tweets. It certainly is baffling.

 

[jggordo]

This is the North Dakota autopsy regs for disclosure. Will check on MN.

http://www.ndhealth.gov/NDME/disclosureofauto.html

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/chs/osr/death.html

 

[jggordo]

Seems as though the ME in Ramsey County where they sent Tommy has some interesting past, although he's been there for years. And it appears to me that an ME did not go to the scene where Tommy was found but relied on LE and pictures.

JMO's

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2011/09/05/ramsey-county-medical-examiner-faces-investigation

 

[MagicMan08]

Has it been kicked around that whoever did this to Tom may have simply thought he was a CI, even though he wasn't? I could see some not so scrupulous people becoming suspicious of the gregarious new kid, especially since he had a recent arrest. And maybe those shady people thought he was trying too hard to fit in and that Tom was working them and trying to pull an Andrew Sadek (CI) on them? It seems like it was a pretty brutal crime and was personal. This theory would fall into that scenario.

I will say that I don't believe that Tom was a CI, for one thing Tom had only been there such a short length of time. How many shady characters would LE think he had a chance to know? Not saying it's not possible, of course.

Now in the tragic case of Andrew Sadek I would put 7, maybe 8 out of 10 eggs in the CI basket (see I have been following along!) but I don't see that with Tom. Not yet, anyway.

For TB: See where the ever mentioned "short length of time" may fail is if he was able to name a decent amount of connections he had made in those weeks he was there or specific places he frequented or knew people that did. If he was as social as people say he was you can meet a crap load of people in a very short period of time, I did it myself in college. Running into people who have lived there for over a year opens all kinds of doors, most of the people throwing house parties aren't freshmen. If he had a small amount of connections already it's very easy to come across the small time dealers if you're looking. Why not ask for an ounce or two or whatever really? I think one thing many fail to realize is that everyone has to get their stuff from somewhere. It's plausible that he could have been a CI, especially if they were aware of certain social circles or places that he frequently went to that they were interested in.

CI's aren't always some dude who is deep into the drug game and CI's aren't always drug deal snitches. Maybe he was to report on people he saw selling party drugs around campus, he had the reputation of a partier. Would him taking pictures with people trying to be cool at a party get him into trouble? Maybe he had something on his phone that wasn't as simple as deleting it due to cell phone forensics.

We could debate this forever really.

*I now have a lot of my eggs in the party supply purchase gone wrong scenario. Which can go a couple of different ways really....

 

[Rocco]

Seems as though the ME in Ramsey County where they sent Tommy has some interesting past, although he's been there for years. And it appears to me that an ME did not go to the scene where Tommy was found but relied on LE and pictures.

JMO's

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2011/09/05/ramsey-county-medical-examiner-faces-investigation

How did you come to the conclusion that a local ME didn't go to the scene where TB was found before he was transported to the ME office in Ramsey County? Just curious.

 

[Montjoy]

Well that's because ur an adult who doesn't use social media the way that we do. In addition to mindless blabber we use it to share thoughts, opinions, fears and lots of other emotions with friends and family. Like gossip of old adults some is made up but lots of it is based on fact. I'm not betting my life on the blabber of kids i know but think it's as likely or valid as stuff that lots of people on here just make up. K done blabbering here

I agree, and think it's patently unfair, perhaps even discriminatory, to dismiss outright everything said by teenagers and young adults; chances are, solving this case will rely at least in part on things said by teenagers and young adults.

 

[jggordo]

How did you come to the conclusion that a local ME didn't go to the scene where TB was found before he was transported to the ME office in Ramsey County? Just curious.

Based on the interview of the ME in the article he admits he does not go to scenes outside that jurisdiction. That's my take on that article. The coroners office is in St. Paul.

 

[CantNotCare]

I agree minneyhockey & Montjoy
Otherwise, that would be like saying "that one fingerprint doesn't matter because there are so many other badly smeared ones". Dismissive to a fault....
I believe a trail is emerging...

 

[Rocco]

Based on the interview of the ME in the article he admits he does not go to scenes outside that jurisdiction. That's my take on that article. The coroners office is in St. Paul.

I think that's understandable. Seems to me it would be an impossible task for him to go to every crime scene outside his jurisdiction.

 

[minnyhockey]

I'm still confused why Jake never tweeted anything further about the "we are so lost and going to die" tweet. A few hours later he was posting retweets from his own twitter account. No mention though of being "found" or glad to be "alive". We still have no information on how Jake and Tom made it to the trap after being lost. Did someone pick them up or did they walk to the trap.? We only have CMs tweet that Tom was seen at the trap after the tweet. What about Jake?

Imo...the "lost" tweet was not innocent. I think something might have been occurring at the time that tweet was sent. If in fact Tom was seen at the trap after the "lost" tweet, maybe the perp followed him there after an earlier altercation and waited for him to leave the trap.

Yes....back to the tweets/retweets/and deleted tweets. It certainly is baffling.

I still thin that this supports the theory that something bad happened to jake and tom and they got seperated and then something even worse happened to tom. i seriously doubt that anyone saw him back at the place and think that cm report of him there at 3:40 is made up. why 3:40? why not around 3:30? i think that everyone at that party stopped talking cause the supplies tom and jake were buying were for that party.

 

[trpream]

McGee isn't the only ME in Ramsey County. Dr. Kelly Mills is also there, and she is excellent. So McGee may not even be the doc doing the autopsy. (note: the article is from 2011, and there was an investigation done into McGee with a report and recommendations released in 2012.)

Also - an ME is not REQUIRED to visit a crime scene. Could it help them? Sure. But determining cause and manner of death is done by examining the body. It's not uncommon for MEs to rely on photos and reports from LE or CSI in order to assist in making their determinations.

That being said - for a ME, the body is supposed to tell the story. The damage to the tissues, toxicology reports, and visible/internal injuries are all part of what helps a ME make a determination about both cause and manner of death (they are different, after all). A medical examiner's determinations are supposed to be unbiased and based on the facts of what the body says (I know it's not always the case, but that is the ideal). And of course in some cases, there may not be enough evidence to support a conclusion (i.e. the body is skeletal). But photos are supposed to support what the conclusion of the ME is, not be the basis of it. A medical examiner is not a CSI - their degrees come from a medical school, not a police academy.

I personally think that sometimes, in cases like this, the general public can mix up in their minds who is actually responsible for what. On TV, the medical examiner is always involved and helping the other law enforcement officers to solve the case. The reality is that the ME is limited to what the body tells them and is also limited to their medical expertise. Their role is to identify cause and manner of death and submit a report detailing those two items. Not putting that misconception on anybody here - I just sometimes get frustrated when I read news articles or facebook comments where people seem to put the blame or responsibility for something in the wrong place. (As I am sure you all do when you read something and just roll your eyes).

 

[Rocco]

McGee isn't the only ME in Ramsey County. Dr. Kelly Mills is also there, and she is excellent. So McGee may not even be the doc doing the autopsy. (note: the article is from 2011, and there was an investigation done into McGee with a report and recommendations released in 2012.)

Also - an ME is not REQUIRED to visit a crime scene. Could it help them? Sure. But determining cause and manner of death is done by examining the body. It's not uncommon for MEs to rely on photos and reports from LE or CSI in order to assist in making their determinations.

That being said - for a ME, the body is supposed to tell the story. The damage to the tissues, toxicology reports, and visible/internal injuries are all part of what helps a ME make a determination about both cause and manner of death (they are different, after all). A medical examiner's determinations are supposed to be unbiased and based on the facts of what the body says (I know it's not always the case, but that is the ideal). And of course in some cases, there may not be enough evidence to support a conclusion (i.e. the body is skeletal). But photos are supposed to support what the conclusion of the ME is, not be the basis of it. A medical examiner is not a CSI - their degrees come from a medical school, not a police academy.

I personally think that sometimes, in cases like this, the general public can mix up in their minds who is actually responsible for what. On TV, the medical examiner is always involved and helping the other law enforcement officers to solve the case. The reality is that the ME is limited to what the body tells them and is also limited to their medical expertise. Their role is to identify cause and manner of death and submit a report detailing those two items. Not putting that misconception on anybody here - I just sometimes get frustrated when I read news articles or facebook comments where people seem to put the blame or responsibility for something in the wrong place. (As I am sure you all do when you read something and just roll your eyes).

:goodpost:

 

[IBsleuthin]

Info on coroner.

http://work.chron.com/coroner-scene-crime-10438.html

 

[CantNotCare]

Tried to post this once:

What causes/leads to this theory? I've considered it as well. Just curious how you arrived at it...not naysaying.

Where it falls apart for me - I have a hard time with the idea a small town minnesota boy generating this level of hate. But - you cant say what people are thinking or capable of anywhere.

IMO: Let's put it this way, I don't think TB took it lying down, in other words he put up a good fight. Made everything look worse, and then of course decomposition worsens everything. I don't believe that who we've mostly heard are main players in this are at all, I think it actually is the very unexpected, but known. I don't believe that it happened at the RV sales lot, I believe he was taken there just before the morning he was found, and I would guess that the tip came from the RV lot employees.

 

[Trino]

Coming up on 3 months now. Incredible that this investigation is stalled.

 

[CantNotCare]

I cant speak to the AS case at all - although it sounds as though there is confirmation he was a CI? Not sure though.

I like your theory that someone thought TB was a CI even though he wasn't. That has been offered before - i think it could be possible. But I still go back to - does it get that brutal on a suspicion?

IMO: My understanding is that it was confirmed that AS was a CI, and once that aspect was discovered by his family (they weren't told by authorities), then SEMCA could not deny it, thus confirming it.
IMO: Even if TB's demise occurred not as a result of actually being a CI (but rather only suspicion, whether actual or not), that still speaks volumes about these tactics needing reviewed thoroughly.
IMO: In post #694 (above) I offered my theory re: level of brutality involved.

 

[LambChop]

WARNING: Do not attack other posters.

 

[CantNotCare]

Been busy but got caught up. Was at a party the other night with a bunch of kids from sartell who knew of TB and it sounds like the opinion there supports buying party supplies gone wrong and a bunch of people the supplies were for not talking cept one who remembered that TB got back at 3:40. I'm sticking with this as the best answer now. CI, gangs, fight over girl all found have happened ornit could be random, but I think party supplies fits bests.

Did you mean "got back at 3:40", like you wrote? Or did you mean "left at 3:40"? Can you please clarify?
Thank you in advance!

 

[CantNotCare]

Here's the thing, IB: The final autospy report can't be submitted until all the testing has been completed----and that includes the toxicolgy testing. If they had to send samples out for futher testing, it's going to take longer--- that's just the way it is. Until those results are back, they can't finish the report. Do I think the investigators know the COD? I think maybe they do but they're not going to release that information until they're good and ready and public curiosity isn't going to make them ready. Does it really matter that much if the cause of death was loss of blood due to a stab wound or cerebral hemorrhage due to head trauma, or _________ (pick a cause). The important fact is he died from homicidal violence and his family, friends, other parents, other students, and the community need to find out who did this and bring that person to justice and also hold accountable anyone who contributed to his demise. JMO

Bingo on that highlighted sentence above Rocco. I agree that COD is not going to change the course of this investigation. I also do believe that there are some culpability factors (players) involved in this case, and that is causing twists and omissions that would otherwise be instrumental to arriving at the real truth. But, hopefully truth will prevail.
I am sad to see how quiet this thread has become.

 

[SailorMoon]

I just don't get the freaking inexcusable SLOWNESS of the autopsy report. Geeze, 3 people died in a fire here the other day and they had the results within 48 hours. And we have more crime, deaths and bodies. Hate to think of that tragedy happening up there!! You'd be waiting until summer to find out.