New Search 9/12/2011

[waltzingmatilda]

Ok, I'm starting to have a really hard time with the reporting (and the K9 situation) on this current search.

I sure hope the dogs aren't digging.
Not to mention that if I understand correctly- we do not know this is a gravesite yet, is that correct?

And on top of that- smelling 'decomp' for an HRD is not the same as smelling ancient bone dust or fragments.
I think they must have discovered something/someone else- or nothing at all.

MVHO.

LOL! I am as confused as can be with this reporting.:crazy:

Here is what I glean from reading between the lines...or trying to anyway.

LE sounded confident at the beginning of this search that they would find a body out there.

LE sounds confident that the dogs detected human decomp at this site.

They have only uncovered one foot of dirt thus far and no remains have been found yet. But that doesn't mean nothing is there, just that they haven't dug deep enough.

The news articles make it sound so FINAL that no remains were found. But since they are digging again today I am holding out hope that something is found today. It would be irresponsible for LE to go out and start digging willy nilly, they must be meticulous so as not to damage potential evidence.

I don't think the dogs are digging but perhaps dig when they first alert? Maybe someone here with knowledge of CDs can chime in.

MOO

wm

 

[Trident]

I don't understand. They said they had human remains. When asked if he meant "bones", he said "human remains". LE can't make a blunder this big, right? I hope they aren't going to every camping spot that jp or sp posted in journals, just to see jp's reaction.

Fat scum, and undisolved bone slivers would, in my opinion, constitute human remains. I believe the dogs might hit on that. In that case, LE would almost have to take the soil to the lab to be tested.

Not saying this is the case, but I believe it's possible.

I think an empty grave/soil (sorta like the A case near the sandbox) is more likely. The body might have been moved, whoever's body it is.

my opinion only

 

[Oriah]

LOL! I am as confused as can be with this reporting.:crazy:

Here is what I glean from reading between the lines...or trying to anyway.

LE sounded confident at the beginning of this search that they would find a body out there.

LE sounds confident that the dogs detected human decomp at this site.

They have only uncovered one foot of dirt thus far and no remains have been found yet. But that doesn't mean nothing is there, just that they haven't dug deep enough.

The news articles make it sound so FINAL that no remains were found. But since they are digging again today I am holding out hope that something is found today. It would be irresponsible for LE to go out and start digging willy nilly, they must be meticulous so as not to damage potential evidence.

I don't think the dogs are digging but perhaps dig when they first alert? Maybe someone here with knowledge of CDs can chime in.

MOO

wm

I've got some knowledge of HRD dogs.

They better not be digging as an alert!
Unless they're SAR dogs working a site with potential live victims...??

But I guess that might be just us. Sarx- help! You know more about left coast K9's than I do.

 

[SuziQ]

ksl 1160 Doug Wright promoting his 9am show (in 25 minutes). Fridays he does "the movie show". But he will start with updates and talking about LE's confusing statements. He is riled up!

 

[Oriah]

Fat scum, and undisolved bone slivers would, in my opinion, constitute human remains. I believe the dogs might hit on that. In that case, LE would almost have to take the soil to the lab to be tested.

Not saying this is the case, but I believe it's possible.

I think an empty grave/soil (sorta like the A case near the sandbox) is more likely. The body might have been moved, whoever's body it is.

my opinion only

Trident- I think you are correct. In my experience, displaced soil where HRD dogs are alerting is excavated and sent to a lab because it can contain evidence...
I don't know what is going one here. Maybe that's what's happening and we just don't know it. I hope. I mean I hope that's the case...

 

[SilkySifaka]

Everything they're doing is deliberate and I am confident they know there are remains there. They are not going to tell the public everything.

Also, excavations take time! They have to do this by the letter or face it being thrown out. This is definitely the real thing, we just need to be patient.

Food for thought: if we're in a tizzy, can you imagine what the killer is thinking? And that is your answer to why the vague reporting.

The same as it would have been if they said they found a grave where he put it. The one who is not confused is Josh. He knows where the body is. He doesn't need to hear the words human remains in it if he put them there, if its a grave he will think her body.

The only misleading is to the poor family and friends and public with the phrase "human remains" before they found any.

IMO

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I've got some knowledge of HRD dogs.

They better not be digging as an alert!
Unless they're SAR dogs working a site with potential live victims...??

But I guess that might be just us. Sarx- help! You know more about left coast K9's than I do.

Thanks Oriah, and please forgive my ignorance of HRD dogs.:innocent:

That article did say the dogs and LE were digging. My gut tells me it is just irresponsible reporting.

I have a question for rockhounds. Does one carry a pickax while rockhounding? I am still trying to reconcile how JP could have potentially dug a grave in the frozen desert. I guess one can accomplish such a thing if the adrenaline is pumping and they have the right tools.

MOO

wm

 

[SilkySifaka]

I've got some knowledge of HRD dogs.

They better not be digging as an alert!
Unless they're SAR dogs working a site with potential live victims...??

But I guess that might be just us. Sarx- help! You know more about left coast K9's than I do.

BBM :floorlaugh: so funny but not.

That we can even imagine it for a minute says how badly LE has played this in the media.

 

[Oriah]

Thanks Oriah, and please forgive my ignorance of HRD dogs.:innocent:

That article did say the dogs and LE were digging. My gut tells me it is just irresponsible reporting.

I have a question for rockhounds. Does one carry a pickax while rockhounding? I am still trying to reconcile how JP could have potentially dug a grave in the frozen desert. I guess one can accomplish such a thing if the adrenaline is pumping and they have the right tools.

MOO

wm

No worries- we all benefit from many different experiences and opinions. I agree- irresponsible reporting. Gosh- I hope anyway!

 

[mountainguy777]

Fat scum, and undisolved bone slivers would, in my opinion, constitute human remains. I believe the dogs might hit on that. In that case, LE would almost have to take the soil to the lab to be tested.

Not saying this is the case, but I believe it's possible.

I think an empty grave/soil (sorta like the A case near the sandbox) is more likely. The body might have been moved, whoever's body it is.


Whoa....I thought you called me "fat scum".

 

[pferrin]

Just the thought of LE playing the media makes me so happy. After the 'A' case I cannot think of a smarter thing for LE to do.

After all media paid for FCA attorney bills etc.

That being said..if they are adding pressure to Josh..yippee.

I am amazed by the work of the dogs and handlers..what team work and assets for LE and victims.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Fat scum, and undisolved bone slivers would, in my opinion, constitute human remains. I believe the dogs might hit on that. In that case, LE would almost have to take the soil to the lab to be tested.

Not saying this is the case, but I believe it's possible.

I think an empty grave/soil (sorta like the A case near the sandbox) is more likely. The body might have been moved, whoever's body it is.


Whoa....I thought you called me "fat scum".

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

LOL!!! I thought so too mg777! I needed that laugh.....

wm

 

[Trident]

Fat scum, and undisolved bone slivers would, in my opinion, constitute human remains. I believe the dogs might hit on that. In that case, LE would almost have to take the soil to the lab to be tested.

Not saying this is the case, but I believe it's possible.

I think an empty grave/soil (sorta like the A case near the sandbox) is more likely. The body might have been moved, whoever's body it is.


Whoa....I thought you called me "fat scum".

C'mon, mountainguy, your pic/avatar looks better than that - in fact, it looks darned good.

 

[Foxy Loxy]

Once again, I find myself googling self incriminating things I never ordinarily would!!!

It IS possible to dig a grave in frozen ground.
First heat the ground with a camp fire (think s'mores).
Then put the fire out and dig the first layer with a pick ax (think rock hunting).
The use a heat lamp to thaw the remaining layers (think generator).
Pick some more.
This might take some time (wish you remembered to bring gloves).
Once you get past the frozen ground (6 to 12 inches) a regular shovel will finish the job.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I'm still stuck on the 'beanie'; wondering what evidence could be found on that, tissue, blood, crime scene dirt, etc. I don't remember if jp's clothes were taken from the house for analysis, they would yield clues, as well as the tires on the van.

 

[SuziQ]

Don't know if we will learn anything new...Doug Wright show starting shortly.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=21

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Just the thought of LE playing the media makes me so happy. After the 'A' case I cannot think of a smarter thing for LE to do.

After all media paid for FCA attorney bills etc.

That being said..if they are adding pressure to Josh..yippee.

I am amazed by the work of the dogs and handlers..what team work and assets for LE and victims.

And we know that LE tells falsehoods in the name of justice! :woohoo:

The search should resume soon. Please everyone keep us posted with tweets, updates, etc. I know ya'll will anyway cause WS are the best!:great:

I am lighting a candle for Susan, her family and friends and the searchers/LE.

wm

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Once again, I find myself googling self incriminating things I never ordinarily would!!!

It IS possible to dig a grave in frozen ground.
First heat the ground with a camp fire (think s'mores).
Then put the fire out and dig the first layer with a pick ax (think rock hunting).
The use a heat lamp to thaw the remaining layers (think generator).
Pick some more.
This might take some time (wish you remembered to bring gloves).
Once you get past the frozen ground (6 to 12 inches) a regular shovel will finish the job.

Thank you for the info Foxy Loxy!!! This has really been bugging me.

wm

 

[mountainguy777]

C'mon, mountainguy, your pic/avatar looks better than that - in fact, it looks darned good.

Awwww thanx T!!

 

[DomCasual]

That rental car and JP's disappearance with it is really making sense to me now. When were JP's chapped hands first noticed? Before or after the rental car?

I think it was Peterson who had first noticed it when he was picking him up after he had dropped off the rental car.

I hope LE can wrap things up today. We are supposed to have one of our Fall backwards days where it's supposed to get to almost 80 then drop 30 degrees this aftenoon ending in wind, thunderstorms, rain and hail.

I am so, so, so, SO not ready for cold weather. Last week, my whole family started throwing up, and I started getting that tickle in my stomach. I KNEW it was coming (miraculously, I never actually got sick - it was just my brain playing tricks). That's how I feel about winter right now. I need to move to a warmer state.

Below is a link to Kiplyn's thread. It's a frustrating case. It took almost ten years and her dad making a plea to the SA handling the Elizabeth Smart case to get any help. Until then Spanish Fork LE refused to change her case status from runaway.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23001&highlight=Kiplyn

Such a sad situation. My wife grew up in Spanish Fork, and she knows the family. That poor father.

BBM:
I will be very glad if that is the case. Maybe the video shown of the dogs all kind of running around was break time?

98%....of human remains (meaning a body)? Or 98% likely that human remains have been detected by HRD dogs at the site?

I can't remember where I read or heard it, but they did an interview with one of the dog handlers the other day. She said the dogs' specific sign when they detect remains is to sit down and not move. That is the sign they have gotten, separately, from all eight dogs now (eight is the number the media here is reporting today). So, I don't think there is any digging. As far as I know, there hasn't been video of the actual site where they're digging; so the video you saw of the dogs all together must have been lunch, a break, before they started, etc.