NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00 #2

[Al Ka]

For those who are questioning photos of Marie - Announcement from NCMEC: (parts bolded by me for reference)

BEAR BROOK MURDERS

Today New Hampshire authorities announced 3 of the 4 #Allenstown murder victims have been identified. DNA confirmed they are Marlyse Honeychurch and her two daughters Marie Vaughn and Sarah McWaters. They disappeared from California during November 1978.

While their names are now known, there are still several questions that remain. Authorities are seeking continued assistance from the public. The below photos appear to be taken during December 1977 or 1978 for Marie's birthday. Marie has been identified as the little girl in the white dress blowing out birthday candles. The location of where this photo was taken is unknown. The other children in the photos have not been identified.

If you have any information on where these photos were taken or who is in the photos, please call the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children at 1-800-THE-LOST, ncmectips@ncmec.org or contact the New Hampshire State Police Cold Case Unit at (603)223-3856, coldcaseunit@dos.nh.gov.

Help ID Me

So to answer everyone's question, if photos are from 77 ( a year before leaving) or 78 (just after they left) it is quite unlikely that middle child (Terry's child) would be in the photo with them. (Just in my own humble opinion).

I have found conflicting information with regards to those 2 photos. While NMCEC claims photo could be from Dec 77 or 78, Timeline from DOJ states photos could be from Dec 78 or 79.

Quote from DOJ: - 1978 or 1979 December - A photo suggests Marie VAUGHN may have celebrated her 7th or 8th birthday with relatives in an unknown location.

https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2019/documents/20190605-allenstown-timeline.pdf

Well, if latter (doj) is correct then that would make things interesting.

Question for everyone, how many candles do you see on that birthday cake?

 

[msphilosopher]

Finally!!

Marlyse, Marie & Sarah finally have their names back and can rest easy.

Remember they were very sick and unhealthy at the time of their deaths. Pneumonia.

 

[Suglo]

I have found conflicting information with regards to those 2 photos. While NMCEC claims photo could be from Dec 77 or 78, Timeline from DOJ states photos could be from Dec 78 or 79.

Quote from DOJ: - 1978 or 1979 December - A photo suggests Marie VAUGHN may have celebrated her 7th or 8th birthday with relatives in an unknown location.

https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2019/documents/20190605-allenstown-timeline.pdf

Well, if latter (doj) is correct then that would make things interesting.

Question for everyone, how many candles do you see on that birthday cake?

I have a feeling the DOJ timeline is the correct one. It makes more sense. I count 7 candles total, 3 on each edge and 1 in the middle.

 

[Two for the road]

I agree. I think the girl next to Marie in the cake photo is likely Terry's daughter. I think the investigators must have some degree of certainty that the unidentified little girl was in these photos and that's why they are asking for help.

If that is her, she looks to be Mexican or Native American. If that's the case, her mom could have been illegal, hence why no family has reported her missing.

Makes you wonder how Marlyse and Terry met.

 

[LadyTudorRose]

If the photos are from December of 1978 it is *very* likely Terry's daughter was at that birthday party and is in one of the photos. In late November of 1978 Marlyse and Terry were in a serious enough relationship that she brought him to Thanksgiving dinner. Marie's birthday was December 6, probably only two weeks or so later. If we assume the daughter was living with Terry (or possibly all of them) at that point it makes a lot of sense that she would be included in Marie's birthday party. Especially when there seem to be children of a variety of ages who were present.

If the photo was from 1977, on the other hand, she probably wouldn't be there and wouldn't have known the family at all yet.

ETA: It's hard to see but it really looks to me like there are seven candles on that cake. That makes it 1978.

 

[Sunryse]

Definitely looks like 7

 

[j_in_c]

This isn't something we can discuss in thread but..anybody have access to yearbooks for Marie's schools for her 7-8th year that would be 2nd & 3rd grades right? I didnt even check her bday. Kindergarten probably wasn't mandatory yet. Maybe some of those children in the b-day party photo are in a yearbook. Idk if that's something we can sleuth? I know we couldnt mention them here right?

I was listening in on press conference and while you couldn't hear the questions - they did call a detective forward to mention what leads he pursued and one was checking if Sarah was ever enrolled in school in NH or if Marlyse ever worked in NH and he found no official records of them under their real names or what he considered possible variants (Evans, etc). Hopefully we get a transcript at some point so I know what the original question was and a better capture of the detective's response.
So great to be able to use their real names while discussing this case. I really hope that the birthday party photo leads to victim #4's ID!

 

[amymarie]

I think the girl you all are talking about looks too old to be Terry’s daughter. Terry’s daughter would have only been 2/3 in 1978.

 

[thesensitivechild]

I have found conflicting information with regards to those 2 photos. While NMCEC claims photo could be from Dec 77 or 78, Timeline from DOJ states photos could be from Dec 78 or 79.

Quote from DOJ: - 1978 or 1979 December - A photo suggests Marie VAUGHN may have celebrated her 7th or 8th birthday with relatives in an unknown location.

https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2019/documents/20190605-allenstown-timeline.pdf

Well, if latter (doj) is correct then that would make things interesting.

Question for everyone, how many candles do you see on that birthday cake?

Six is what I see. Growing up my family always put an extra one in for good luck.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Man, this case always makes me emotional. I can't believe they have names now. My heart breaks for their families who searched for so long, but I am glad they have the answers. It does sound like they never gave up looking, and that makes me happy to know that this little family was loved in life.

I get what some of you are saying about the possibility of the girl in the photo being the middle child. I wonder who all the other kids in the photo are. Oakhill Research hasn't posted an update since the press conference but hopefully current and former Bear Brook locals will recognize someone.

I was trying to look at things in the room in the presents photo to see if anything yielded any insights. What is that horse thing, exactly? It looks like there is a poster on the wall but I can't make it out. Looks like it could be Jane Goodall or Diane Fossey? What about the other stuff on the walls? Is that a bong on the shelf? Or a vase, maybe?

 

[cvaldez1975]

I have found conflicting information with regards to those 2 photos. While NMCEC claims photo could be from Dec 77 or 78, Timeline from DOJ states photos could be from Dec 78 or 79.

Quote from DOJ: - 1978 or 1979 December - A photo suggests Marie VAUGHN may have celebrated her 7th or 8th birthday with relatives in an unknown location.

https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2019/documents/20190605-allenstown-timeline.pdf

Well, if latter (doj) is correct then that would make things interesting.

Question for everyone, how many candles do you see on that birthday cake?

At least 7. So 78 at least

 

[cvaldez1975]

Finally!!

Marlyse, Marie & Sarah finally have their names back and can rest easy.

Remember they were very sick and unhealthy at the time of their deaths. Pneumonia.

I know they said Marie had scarlett fever prior to her death.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I agree. I think the girl next to Marie in the cake photo is likely Terry's daughter. I think the investigators must have some degree of certainty that the unidentified little girl was in these photos and that's why they are asking for help.

If that is her, she looks to be Mexican or Native American. If that's the case, her mom could have been illegal, hence why no family has reported her missing.

Makes you wonder how Marlyse and Terry met.

I have some type of feeling she is NA and from AZ or NM

 

[kemo]

The one take-away I can see from this new information is that Rasmussen was using his real identity in Nov 1978 but sometime in 1979 he turns up in NH using the identity of Bob Evans. Prior to that time, there is no indication that he ever used a false identity. If he did, he seemed to have had no problem going back to Rasmussen.

From what I know Marlyse was known to her family and Ralph McWater’s family as Marty. If the “Elizabeth Evans” in Manchester is really Marlyse, it would see that she and Rasmussen were deliberately using false identities.

There are plenty of reasons for assuming false identities. They usually involve illegal activity or dodging legal obligations. Rasmussen almost certainly owed child support to his first wife and perhaps other debts. He may have had minor criminal warrants hanging over his head. Misdemeanor type warrants in those days were often dropped or forgotten. Most people did not try to change their identities to avoid such inconveniences. Moving to a new state and not telling anyone where you were was good enough. But, some people did it anyway.

Fingerprints from his Arizona arrest were probably not on any national data base. His fingerprints from his military time would have been available had any LE agency requested them but none of his subsequent arrest led to such a search. All of this leads me to believe that Rasmussen (and probably Marlyse)we’re not fleeing from serious criminal charges. They could still be concerned that charges might be filed.

Somehow, I think it is very possible that the false identity is related to his biological child. It is possible that he absconded with her. In 1979 it is hard to tell how hard some law enforcement agencies would have pursued a parental abduction case. There appears to be no action initiated against Rasmussen.

Another possibility is that he murdered the child’s mother. If this were the case, no charges were ever filed or warrants issued. If a woman was found murdered or just disappeared and her child was missing, the father would certainly be an early target of the investigation but, if his whereabouts were unknown, no charges may have been filed. If a woman with a young child were to suddenly disappear ( as opposed to seemingly take off on their own accord) the disappearance would probably turn up on a MP database and we can assume all of those have been investigated. If Rasmussen was afraid he would be charged for the murder, it would explain why he set up a false identity. It might also explain why he killed Marlyse and the children. If the relationship with Marlyse started going south and she knew something that could get him in real serious trouble, he may have felt it was necessary.

The next piece of the puzzle it the full identity of the mystery child. I’m guessing we will not have to wait so long.

 

[Two for the road]

If the girl to the left of Marie in the cake photo is the middle child, does anyone see a resemblance between her and the blond boy in the yellow shirt? They have almost the same exact nose shape. What if he had/has more kids out there?

 

[CreoleMoon]

Man, this case always makes me emotional. I can't believe they have names now. My heart breaks for their families who searched for so long, but I am glad they have the answers. It does sound like they never gave up looking, and that makes me happy to know that this little family was loved in life.

I get what some of you are saying about the possibility of the girl in the photo being the middle child. I wonder who all the other kids in the photo are. Oakhill Research hasn't posted an update since the press conference but hopefully current and former Bear Brook locals will recognize someone.

I was trying to look at things in the room in the presents photo to see if anything yielded any insights. What is that horse thing, exactly? It looks like there is a poster on the wall but I can't make it out. Looks like it could be Jane Goodall or Diane Fossey? What about the other stuff on the walls? Is that a bong on the shelf? Or a vase, maybe?

I see one of those 1970s oil drip fountains with the nude Grecian ladies or little gristmill scenes on the wall in the second photo,

 

[CreoleMoon]

Irish eyes, in the second photo that’s not a bong it’s one of those 1976 colonial revival oil lamps - this one is a ruby red colored one, in also seeing what I believe to be a velvet diamond shaped art peice on the wall- Black vevelt framed wall-art, cast bronze horse sculpture and what looks to be a hand sewed tapastry on the wall to the left- all these items are quite unique. This lends me to think that this scene could be recognized by the right person/s.

 

[Bit of hope]

I have a feeling the DOJ timeline is the correct one. It makes more sense. I count 7 candles total, 3 on each edge and 1 in the middle.

I count 7 too.

 

[Goecke]

The birthday pic makes things so much more confusing. Marie was born in December 1971 and was last seen in November 1978. If she was truly killed right after she was last seen, she would have been 6, but the cake has seven candles in it. Even if the girl next to her is Rasmussen's daughter, that doesn't explain who all the other children are. Wherever Marie was when this pic was taken, she had friends. I doubt all of the kids were relatives, especially since Marlyse didn't have family in NH. Makes me think she was enrolled in school in NH for some time, or she had some other opportunity to meet other kids.
Looking at the timeline, it looks like Rasmussen was arrested twice earlier in 1980, once in February and once in May."Elizabeth Evans" was listed as his spouse both times, but when he was arrested again in October no spouse was listed. If Marlyse really was "Elizabeth," that would make me think that the murders took place sometime in between May and October of 1980.

 

[sonz82]

If the girl to the left of Marie in the cake photo is the middle child, does anyone see a resemblance between her and the blond boy in the yellow shirt? They have almost the same exact nose shape. What if he had/has more kids out there?

Boy? It could be but for some reason I thought that was Sarah. Looks so much like a slightly older version of her new born baby photo.