NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

[WyomingSkyAngel]

I wouldn't know where to begin with that and am a midnight sleuther....too busy during the day to even get my own phone calls done!! .

I do think it also puts the unrelated girl in the region as well. But what would put them on the east coast? Don't have time right now, but should look at a map of the colonies to see if there are some on that coast. If someone left a colony in the Dakotas would they go that far?

I can ask around. I know (former) Hutterites...... It is possible that a female from a colony might have gotten tired of the Plains & moved to the East Coast with someone.....

edit to add- there has been Air Force bases in Montana & North Dakota for decades. It is entirely possible a woman from a Hutterite colony could have gotten with a man who was getting a transfer to the East Coast....& I hate to say it but there are plenty of domestic abusers in the armed services. It's a bit of a cliche in Great Falls & other similar base cities that servicemen will move women in & use them then dump them at some later point. Even if the killer wasn't a military boyfriend, that would be one way to get a trip to the East Coast from the Plains, if they are from here.....

 

[Alleykins]

I think LE should target the military bases in the isotope areas, especially with Pease AFB so close to where the victims were discovered.

 

[carbuff]

I can ask around. I know (former) Hutterites...... It is possible that a female from a colony might have gotten tired of the Plains & moved to the East Coast with someone.....

edit to add- there has been Air Force bases in Montana & North Dakota for decades. It is entirely possible a woman from a Hutterite colony could have gotten with a man who was getting a transfer to the East Coast....& I hate to say it but there are plenty of domestic abusers in the armed services. It's a bit of a cliche in Great Falls & other similar base cities that servicemen will move women in & use them then dump them at some later point. Even if the killer wasn't a military boyfriend, that would be one way to get a trip to the East Coast from the Plains, if they are from here.....

I grew up in Montana -- it was not just ginormous Malstrom air base in Great Falls, but smaller installations all across the state, minutemen silos and air force training etc. They changed assignments frequently. Every year in my high school there would be at least a couple of military brats (what they called themselves) who had to leave before the year was up, or who came in the middle and had to catch up, or sometimes stayed with a friend for a couple of months so they could finish the year. If a classmate had disappeared and we were told, "Her dad is now stationed in West Germany" (a common transfer) we would not have thought anything of it, only sad we didn't get to say goodbye.

 

[Alleykins]

I grew up in Montana -- not just Malstrom air base in Great Falls, but smaller installations all across the state, minutemen silos and air force training etc. They changed assignments frequently. Every year in my high school there would be at least a couple of military brats (what they called themselves) who had to leave before the year was up, or who came in the middle and had to catch up, or sometimes stayed with a friend for a couple of months so they could finish the year. If a classmate had disappeared and we were told, "Her dad is now stationed in West Germany" (a common transfer) we would not have thought anything of it, only sad we didn't get to say goodbye.

I think that's what the AG was getting at when he said, questions were asked/answered, and there was no follow up. You probably never questioned someone's disappearance when that happened, that's why I'm thinking military or another type of transient lifestyle, like seasonal work, which would be a fair circuit or horse racing/harness racing tied to Rockingham Park. The only thing that might quash the military theory is the lack of good dental hygiene they seemed to have had. They would have access to dentists through the government.
Did any of the testing include pollen? I can't remember.

 

[carbuff]

I think that's what the AG was getting at when he said, questions were asked/answered, and there was no follow up. You probably never questioned someone's disappearance when that happened, that's why I'm thinking military or another type of transient lifestyle, like seasonal work, which would be a fair circuit or horse racing/harness racing tied to Rockingham Park. The only thing that might quash the military theory is the lack of good dental hygiene they seemed to have had. They would have access to dentists through the government.
Did any of the testing include pollen? I can't remember.

Yes, exactly. Add the agricultural workers, seasonal tourist industry, and the influx of workers with the computer industry and all the housing and service workers who came to New Hampshire to support the influx, and you have a rather large pool of people who could have come and gone without attracting any notice.

I don't recall anything about pollen testing, either.

 

[KaylaraOwl]

I'm asking a friend who an mp about this. He probably can't help, but it's worth a shot.

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

A random idea- the dental records of the kids might indicate if they (&the adult female) were living in poverty (or not) at the time of their deaths. I do know a bit about how Hutterites handle medical issues so if the adult female WAS a Hutterite her teeth might indicate that too.

I don't want to share how much I know about Domestic Abuse in the military because it's going to sound like I'm bashing on service personnel & that's not what I am trying to say. I will say that a lot of younger men in the service make bad boyfriends & aren't beyond taking advantage of people or victimizing people to get what they want or need.

 

[Alleykins]

I mentioned military because of the close proximity of Pease AFB to Allenstown, and because traveling from base to base is normal for military families; it would be nothing to drop out of sight without raising a red flag. I also mentioned it because of the isotopes testing; the related victims were in a more northern climate months before ending up in NH. That could either be Loring AFB or a more northern base in the midwest, where the unrelated child was believed to be from. That could explain how she could have come into their company, the timing of which coincides with the other 3 being in that area as well. I never got confirmation if that more northern climate from which the middle child came was the same more northern are that the 3 related victims were said to be in up to 7 months before they died.

 

[shadowdancer]

Great sleuthing guys!

I really hope you are on the right tracks. My fear is that this was a Jaycee Dugard or even possibly a Suzanne Sevakis (Sharon Marshall) situation.

 

[Alleykins]

Great sleuthing guys!

I really hope you are on the right tracks. My fear is that this was a Jaycee Dugard or even possibly a Suzanne Sevakis (Sharon Marshall) situation.

Anything is possible at this point.

 

[Alleykins]

Yes, exactly. Add the agricultural workers, seasonal tourist industry, and the influx of workers with the computer industry and all the housing and service workers who came to New Hampshire to support the influx, and you have a rather large pool of people who could have come and gone without attracting any notice.

That's exactly what I'm thinking, too, Carbuff, that it was a blended family that perhaps traveled around a lot, following the work, so them moving along would be par for the course. Plus, if you look at the family dynamic, it changed a long the way. Mom & daughter, to mom and two daughters, then to a mom, two daughters and a third little girl, and who knows if there was a steady significant other added into the mix. It is possible there are a ton of people who know them, just not recognizing them as a foursome.

 

[courtfollower89]

Hey guys I'm new to sleuthing cold cases and just so happens I watched a video on this case and it has since sucked me in. I know everyone is thinking these ladies may be hutterites. I'm curious about the gypsy culture in New Hampshire.

There is also an article I read that gave me this suspicion. .
I've also included the new sketch I seen. Forgive me if it's already been posted.

"The little girl aged 5 to 11 found in 1985 offers Fallon the most hope that someone will remember her because she may have attended school up to the fifth grade. She had double piercings in both ears, which would have been considered unusual at the time. "
- See more at: http://www.unionleader.com/article/20130210/NEWS03/130219950&template=mobileart#sthash.piu8sp3h.dpuf

Sent from my Nexus 7

 

[carbuff]

(snipped for focus)
I don't think it was the forensic artists' opinion because he has seen the actual skulls. I don't think he was supposed to say anything, but that's my take on things. No one may have caught it but the public, like us.

Unless the forensic artist is also a forensic pathologist or other trained expert, his conclusion from looking at the skulls is still only an opinion. It takes specialized knowledge to determine whether the damage was inflicted after death, or whether it was the cause of death. In this case I think he's probably right, and he probably heard it from LE sources. They've never released it officially but they don't seem to be keeping it terribly secret either.

 

[catherine.]

I can't find anything in the thread, but I imagine it has been brought up before - did they ever compare the 2nd child's DNA to other UIDs? I find it unusual that mom isn't looking for the 2nd child, and it makes me wonder if the mother is also deceased due to the same person who killed these four and either a. was never found or b. is also an UID.

Obviously lots of possibilities as far as the 2nd child is concerned, but I had this awe-huh moment just now at work.

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

I watched the video & thought that the suspect named seemed very likely but...if he did it, why would he dump the victims so close to home? It just doesn't seem to make sense.

FWIW the facial features of the adult woman are very fine/symmetrical....My guess is she might have Plains Native American tribe genetics (also guessing from her height.) Women with Cherokee lineage tend to be very slight & have fine featured faces.Some Chippewa women have similar builds too.

Re- the double-pierced earrings- I was a young schoolkid in the late 1980s & even in progressive California I didn't see double piercings often. Also home ear piercing was a thing in the 70s & 80s so one of the older girl's friends might remember her from this (pre-teen girls are all about socializing. I would bet you anything the older girl will be recognized.)

Did anyone investigate the origin of the barrels, or possible residue from what they were used for (industrial, foodservice, etc.)?

& Lastly there might be a way to track down frequent users of the campground where the bodies were found (via facebook & news stories.) Someone might remember something.....Or know someone who was familiar with the area.

 

[Aleph]

I watched the video & thought that the suspect named seemed very likely but...if he did it, why would he dump the victims so close to home? It just doesn't seem to make sense.

FWIW the facial features of the adult woman are very fine/symmetrical....My guess is she might have Plains Native American tribe genetics (also guessing from her height.) Women with Cherokee lineage tend to be very slight & have fine featured faces.Some Chippewa women have similar builds too.

Re- the double-pierced earrings- I was a young schoolkid in the late 1980s & even in progressive California I didn't see double piercings often. Also home ear piercing was a thing in the 70s & 80s so one of the older girl's friends might remember her from this (pre-teen girls are all about socializing. I would bet you anything the older girl will be recognized.)

Did anyone investigate the origin of the barrels, or possible residue from what they were used for (industrial, foodservice, etc.)?

& Lastly there might be a way to track down frequent users of the campground where the bodies were found (via facebook & news stories.) Someone might remember something.....Or know someone who was familiar with the area.

Were Native American communities early adopters of the double piercing style? I grew up in this general area and was born at roughly the same time as the girls in this case. Double pierced ears were considered very edgy at the time, even for teenagers.

That being said, there were almost no visibly Native American people in the area, then or now.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

There has been a lot of discussion in the Lyle Stevik thread about attached earlobes and Native Americans. The unrelated child clearly has attached earlobes. Is that just an artist's interpretation in this case?

 

[Alleykins]

I watched the video & thought that the suspect named seemed very likely but...if he did it, why would he dump the victims so close to home? It just doesn't seem to make sense.

I agree. Unless he was really lazy and stupid, or just plain cocky, no killer would dump bodies so close to where they lived and risk the bodies being discovered. Plus, from what else I've read, people/kids walked through the pathway near where they were found, to go to the store, and someone who lived in that trailer park would know that, too. That's why I think it was a dump job, someone who knew the area but didn't live
nearby. I also think it was done in winter or else the bodies would be buried, but that's my conclusion, it has no basis in fact.

I can't find anything in the thread, but I imagine it has been brought up before - did they ever compare the 2nd child's DNA to other UIDs?

If you have the time, you should watch the raw press coverage video released last November. It's fascinating and has a lot of information in it. But, to answer your question, they have limited DNA profiles on each of them, but they did compare the DNA of all four of them. The results were: the woman, the oldest child and the youngest child are maternally related, but the second child is not known to be related at this time. That doesn't mean they aren't, just that the DNA associations that they have available don't match so they don't know. They explain it better in the video. Here's a link to it- it is long but worth the watch, IMHO:
[video=youtube;j6kKtJXoeT4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6kKtJXoeT4[/video]

 

[carbuff]

Bodies are seldom buried in New England because there aren't many places where the topsoil is more than a couple of feet thick. Cemeteries often have to blast to make room for the vaults. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the person planned to bury them but then used barrels that were already lying around when he found out he couldn't dig deep enough. Not saying it happened that way, just that it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Shane 65]

Or due to circumstances such as an imminent arrest or eviction was unable to dispose of them with more planning. And of course, the list of killers who dispose of their victims on the killers' own property numbers in the hundreds, if not thousands.

Bodies are seldom buried in New England because there aren't many places where the topsoil is more than a couple of feet thick. Cemeteries often have to blast to make room for the vaults. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the person planned to bury them but then used barrels that were already lying around when he found out he couldn't dig deep enough. Not saying it happened that way, just that it wouldn't surprise me.