Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 # 9 *Arrest*

[k4kathy]

iphones are taken away from patients in a psych hospital.

How do you know this? I'm under the impression that he must have just gotten the iphone pretty recently, otherwise I would definitely think there would have been previous FB posts made with the iphone.

 

[peace9274]

WN’s paranoid theme of persecution centers on LE tracking him/following him. Knowing that paranoid schizophrenics are very suspicious and cautious, going onto FB and "friending" 169+ strangers doesn't fit with his diagnosis. IMO, he would likely be suspicious of FB even when he was in remission.

Was it reported that he is in fact diagnosed with PARANOID schizophrenia?
Not all schizophrenics are paranoid.

 

[HeinekenMan]

I would not be surprised to learn that LE has his phone and has been tinkering with it.

 

[Jo in Calif]

One bit of information, I myself find interesting, is that Mom went to stay with family, after they found Celina, spokesperson on her behalf, would not comment if WN was with her. Then we hear WN checked into a hotel with his sister, then checks himself into hospital, his wife was not with him. At a time like that, it being confirmed that your child is found dead, wouldn't one think that the husband and wife would be there for each other.

 

[peace9274]

How do you know this? I'm under the impression that he must have just gotten the iphone pretty recently, otherwise I would definitely think there would have been previous FB posts made with the iphone.

I know this from being a psych nurse & have worked 20 + yrs in a state
run psych hospital & 8 yrs in a private psych hospital.

All psych patient's belongings & person are seached for (long lists of) certain items.
Cell phones & cameras are items that are taken away & locked for safe keeping or given to a family member to take home.

 

[Pensfan]

Was it reported that he is in fact diagnosed with PARANOID schizophrenia?
Not all schizophrenics are paranoid.

That is what the forensic examiner told the court in 2003. A judge ruled WN incompetent to stand trial for breaking an order of protection and threatening an ex-girlfriend.

Could this diagnosis be incorrect? Possibly. We may never know.

 

[iamnotagolem]

One bit of information, I myself find interesting, is that Mom went to stay with family, after they found Celina, spokesperson on her behalf, would not comment if WN was with her. Then we hear WN checked into a hotel with his sister, then checks himself into hospital, his wife was not with him. At a time like that, it being confirmed that your child is found dead, wouldn't one think that the husband and wife would be there for each other.

One would think. I'd also think that given his delicate mental condition that if she assumed his innocence, she'd keep him by her side to keep him more stable and reassured through out the tragedy.

 

[k4kathy]

Body language speaks volumes

 

[Pensfan]

I know this from being a psych nurse & have worked 20 + yrs in a state
run psych hospital & 8 yrs in a private psych hospital.

All psych patient's belongings & person are seached for (long lists of) certain items.
Cell phones & cameras are items that are taken away & locked for safe keeping or given to a family member to take home.

Verified psych nurse (me) on WS agrees.
Hi, peace! :seeya:

 

[mck16]

O.K. we are talking about 2 different things here.
The FB comment was made at 9 something in the morning, posting to someone where he lived.
I was talking about the comment he made to the press, over the phone, in the evening after LE was involved and searches being done, when his message to Celina was to get her butt home.

Thanks for clarifying when the butt comment was made. I thought it was that day when he was questioned. ty

 

[elmomom]

Was it reported that he is in fact diagnosed with PARANOID schizophrenia?
Not all schizophrenics are paranoid.

Yes, it was specifically reported as paranoid schizophrenia.

A forensic examiner deemed Noyes a paranoid schizophrenic who likey developed his mental illness while in the Air Force, according to court documents.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-hampshire-girl-search-extends-canada/story?id=14178067

 

[Jo in Calif]

That is what the forensic examiner told the court in 2003. A judge ruled WN incompetent to stand trial for breaking an order of protection and threatening an ex-girlfriend.

Could this diagnosis be incorrect? Possibly. We may never know.

I'm not savvy on these things, but is it usual for a forensic examiner to evaluate a person for those kinds of things?
Never mind, I was thinking of something else.

 

[nosysw]

To be clear: your immediate reaction to discovering, perhaps as late in the morning as 8:30 or 9:00, that your 12 year old was out and about would be panic --and you might even assume that someone had broken into your home and abducted him?

I can understand alarm and anger, I can understand you immediately calling all his friends or driving around the neighborhood looking for a butt in desperate need of a serious warming, but hysterical speechless "it must have been a homicidal maniac" panic?

Remember, we are NOT talking about the wee dark hours of the dawn. It was a bright summer morning, people have been out and about for hours, driving to work and heading to the store, the morning coffee crowd has already hit the cafes and is on their way home, kids are riding bikes and playing ball, lawnmowers and weedeaters are firing up all across this tiny little town. The morning traffic rush, what little you have of it, has already ended.

And this missing child is not an infant, she is a young teen, and this is probably HOURS later in the day than she would normally leave to walk to school -- probably alone. She is almost twelve, she goes everywhere alone, probably all over town. Mommy is not holding her hand.

So what exactly is there to be hysterical about? Alarmed... Sure! Pissed? Sure! But overcome with hysterical grief and horror? It doesn't fit. Again, and respectfully, why would a reasonable and rational adult be dumb-struck with horror?

Step dad saying "She needs to get her butt home" and posting on facebook is not alarming or suspicious, it might be callous and lax, but it's NORMAL. I can picture him rolling his eyes and saying, "Relax, the kid is out playing and forgot to leave a note. I'll kick her butt later." Celina's sister asking a neighbor is she has seen her is also normal. Calling friends is normal. Mom's reaction, assuming the neighbor's account is correct, is actually pretty weird here. WHY was mom acting this way? In my opinion, MY OPINION, the answer to this question is the answer to this entire crime.

DISCLAIMER: I am not accusing anyone of anything, nor am I advancing a theory. I am stating opinions based upon what seem to me to be logical conclusions from the very limited and admittedly unverified information available. You conclusions may vary.

Apparently your household operates differently than mine...No child in my house (including my son when he was an older teenager) goes anywhere without telling us- that is non-negotiable...Within the time it would take me to check to ensure that he were not taking the dogs out, not in my fenced in yard, and no one else in the household knew anything about him going anywhere panic would definitely be setting in...more often than not I don't allow my children to go out by themselves- its a buddy system- and if they do they are to call me when they get to where they're going.

Am I overprotective? Yup...Does everyone do this?- no and I'm pretty sure it may not have been that way in their household...But the stepfather's own statement is that she doesn't go anywhere...so why wouldn't he be concerned if she weren't there? Why would he have called mom if he was unconcerned?

I'm not saying I would jump to a stranger abduction...I might think he took the dogs out and something happened- but yes, my panic would be climbing and I don't think I would send someone out looking for him before calling police...maybe a couple phone calls but one would be to the police...

Also, almost twelve is not a teen...it is a pre-teen. She is over a year and a half from starting the teens..

And in my town, at 8:30 on a summer morning, there's not a whole lot of activity going on...kids out playing and such? Not at that time...Some people going to work is about it...those that are off in the summer are not really out doors yet- not saying no one but not a lot of activity.

 

[yllek]

WN’s paranoid theme of persecution centers on LE tracking him/following him. Knowing that paranoid schizophrenics are very suspicious and cautious, going onto FB and "friending" 169+ strangers doesn't fit with his diagnosis. IMO, he would likely be suspicious of FB even when he was in remission.

Wendell did claim that authorities had planted something under his skin to track him (something to that effect) which is one of the reasons he was deemed incompetent to face charges when he was arrested for threatening his ex several years back. I agree with Pensfan therefore that it's reasonable to assume Wendell may have an exaggerated fear of being tracked/watched and elements of paranoia. It does seem odd to me that he would put himself out there on Facebook given his diagnosis.

Also, I don't know if it's related or not, just trying to connect some dots - so all speculation. But, this has had me scratching my head, and I think maybe Pensfan's point about Wendell being afraid of being tracked might explain it:

(The Chronicle has obtained some court orders regarding Wendell Noyes’ criminal history and it shows him as
signing his name each time as
“Wendall” in his own handwriting—with an a instead of an e—
but official documents spell it
“Wendell&#8221

http://www.colebrookchronicle.com/Aug5.pdf

JMO...

 

[k4kathy]

I would not be surprised to learn that LE has his phone and has been tinkering with it.

But why on earth would you want a iphone ... if you live in that town where its difficult to get a signal to even use a cellphone?
Does WI-FI even exist in that town I wonder?
I know that when I'm awayfrom home or the city where there isn't a good signal, my phone is useless.
I recall LE putting up a temp cell tower during the search for CC. That tells me the reception in that area is very poor. Not a place where a iphone would work worth a darn!

 

[peace9274]

I'm not savvy on these things, but is it usual for a forensic examiner to evaluate a person for those kinds of things?

A judge rules on the info that is given to him, by the LE, the patient's entire hosp chart, the results of psychiatrists' evaluation... and then makes his decision whether a patient is competent to stand trial. Or if no crime was commited, competent to leave a psych unit.

There have been many times that a judge has made a decision to allow a psych patient to leave a hospital, 72 hrs after being papered (AKA committed)... which angered & frustrated docs, nurses, social workers & other staff, when they thought it wasn't safe for him/her to be discharged.

But "that IS the law".

 

[Magdalyn]

WN’s paranoid theme of persecution centers on LE tracking him/following him. Knowing that paranoid schizophrenics are very suspicious and cautious, going onto FB and "friending" 169+ strangers doesn't fit with his diagnosis. IMO, he would likely be suspicious of FB even when he was in remission.

My husband's cousin is paranoid schizophrenic, non compliant, and she's very active on Facebook. Now, as far as I know, she only 'friends' people she knows in real life. Also, AFAIK, her paranoia only extended to her believing her boss was spying on her/trying to poison her through her vents, etc.

With that said, she occasionally posts weird comments on other people's posts (mine included.) Nothing outlandish, just sometimes ... whatever she says seems to have nothing to do with what everyone else is talking about. Like it's an inside joke ... with herself. Oops. That's probably off topic!

 

[chief]

WN’s paranoid theme of persecution centers on LE tracking him/following him. Knowing that paranoid schizophrenics are very suspicious and cautious, going onto FB and "friending" 169+ strangers doesn't fit with his diagnosis. IMO, he would likely be suspicious of FB even when he was in remission.

Not only that, but wouldn't owning a phone with a built in GPS be problematic if you thought LE was tracking you? :twocents:

 

[daisy7]

I wonder if the sleepover was within walking distance to the house. What if Celina wanted to pop in and took her blanket with her?

First I've heard about a sleepover. Can you give more details? TIA!

 

[Feistyoldbroad]

But why on earth would you want a iphone ... if you live in that town where its difficult to get a signal to even use a cellphone?
Does WI-FI even exist in that town I wonder?
I know that when I'm awayfrom home or the city where there isn't a good signal, my phone is useless.
I recall LE putting up a temp cell tower during the search for CC. That tells me the reception in that area is very poor. Not a place where a iphone would work worth a darn!

I was up there about a month ago. NO cell service at all! NONE. It was very frustrating. I'm wondering if maybe he was using someone else's phone? I don't know...