NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #1

[Bobbi]

I am wondering if the Gaines boy was suspicious of the girls perhaps Patty being in danger. He wanted to walk them home and ran all the way straight to Patty's. Had he seen them being watched? Did he know someone was angry with Patty? Or was he just wanting to be a girl he liked?

I've also wondered the very same thing. How did Gaines know where Patty lived and what was said during the 45 minute visit with her mother?? It makes me think that he had known Patty.

 

[TOM BEYER]

I don't live in Carlsbad, but in Los Alamos, NM. Hopefully, I can get down to Carlsbad this month. I want to visit and take pictures at some of the points of interest involved in this unsolved murder. Carlsbad is still the nation's largest producer of potash, employing over 1500. In 1961, Carlsbad was the world's largest producer.

 

[TOM BEYER]

I still think that a male's DNA profile can be extract from the original girl's clothing. DNA technology has advanced from 2003. I not even sure the technician was given every piece of clothing to work on. I still think David Blair, with or without help, was the killer. But I am far from being absolutely sure. Charles Titus's involvement (or attempts to hinder) in the case is absolutely bizarre and suspicious. And my respect for Sushine 1950 continues to grow.

 

[TOM BEYER]

Nancy Mosley and Linda Lou Roberts describe a lurking elderly man with dark hair in a chevy with NM plates. Earl Nichols would not have dark hair, but graying and would not have a car with NM plates. But elderly does not describe David Blair.

 

[TOM BEYER]

Nancy Mosley actually describes a "husky, middle-aged" man. Linda Lou Roberts describes a "dark haired man in a t-shirt". Again these tend to rule out Earl Nichols who would have been 73 at the time (possibly with a mustache and beard) and does not seem to be the type to wear a T-shirt. Though not middle-aged, 20 year old David Blair would be dark-haired and husky. He resembles an Elvis Presley/Jay Vincent (another singer of the time) type who would have worn a T-shirt.

 

[fish1966]

Mr. Beyer, if you need info on finding your way around the places in Carlsbad you may contact Sunshine and you ask her if she thinks I would be of any assistance while you are in Carlsbad.

 

[fish1966]

No, justthinkin, there is no link.

 

[Hurricane]

Nancy Mosley actually describes a "husky, middle-aged" man. Linda Lou Roberts describes a "dark haired man in a t-shirt". Again these tend to rule out Earl Nichols who would have been 73 at the time (possibly with a mustache and beard) and does not seem to be the type to wear a T-shirt. Though not middle-aged, 20 year old David Blair would be dark-haired and husky. He resembles an Elvis Presley/Jay Vincent (another singer of the time) type who would have worn a T-shirt.

I agree with your points. The picture of Nichols has to be pretty much as he would have appeared in 1961, since he died in 1963. He would have been gray or white headed whether he had the chin beard or not. No witness has described a man of his description.

What appears to me to be a common denominator in most all of the eye witness reports is a 1955-1956 Chevrolet 2-dr sedan. Since a couple of witnesses described it as having round tail lights, and since Linda Lou Roberts knew that it was a 1956 because her boyfriend also drove one, I think that it can safely be said that it was a 1956 and not a 1955 Chevrolet. If it had NM tags as Roberts observed, I wonder if NMSP ran all such vehicles registered in the state at that time?

So whether we are dealing with any of the usual suspects or someone yet to be identified, ownership of or access to a 1956 Chevrolet is key I think.

 

[justthinkin]

Tom, I agree with you. I was going to go back and reread everything to see if I could figure out what Titus's angle was, but I've yet to get around to it.

Did he have someone off Dan McGrew? That could make alot of sense, here. Titus being on the phone with Dan when Dan was shot gives Titus an excellent alibi. If he aided and abetted the murderer of the girls, that's a serious charge in itself. Titus may have gotten wind that Dan knew what role Titus played, and Titus got worried.

I wish I could remember if I saw a maiden name for Artell. I just wonder if there wasn't some familial tie there to Titus with the Blairs or if Titus and Artell had ever had a thing going? Whichever kind of tie it was, it had to be a strong one to get Titus involved in this if he was, and his actions sure speak to him being invovled in some way.



Just from Nichols picture and based on the info Anne got from his daughter and granddaughter, he may have been a molester, and if so, I could picture him with clearly prepubescent girls, but less so teens.

I just don't think he'd have had the strength to move the bodies or for that matter even commit a crime like this at his age. He died 3 years afterwards. That tells me he most likely wasn't in the best of health when the murders happened. If he was or had been a predator, could it be that he spotted a younger predator watching the girls, and so he was keen on the situation? If he had a history of molestation, even if he didn't do this crime, the fact that it occured and he was in the neighborhood, may have panicked him. Heck, maybe he was up to something, but Blair got to them first. A guilty conscience just for having bad thoughts concerning the girls may have sent Nichols packing.

 

[2gone]

It's too bad that they all feel that way. They are probably just protecting Patty's reputation concerning her dating older/married men at such a young age.

I am the step sister of Patti who had been, and still is haunted by the murders. I met Anne on line a couple of years ago whille searching for information on the murders. Just meeting her online helped me in a tremendously emotional way. Actually being able to talk to somebody about this, and find the sister of Patti's friend was a miracle. I feel comfortable in saying that Anne and I have bonded in a very unique way. I call Anne "St. Anne" for all the work she has done over the years. My family NEVER talked about it....EVER! After I left home and married I got counseling for 35 years...never knowing what really happened, like Anne. After meeting Anne I learned everything she knew and literally, physically and mentally fell apart after much talking with Anne. She understood this and also how my sister Connie and my Dad had buried it soooooo deeply she also respected my request not to upset my Dad after this many years. Now that Connie is gone, her daughters will probably get more active. One thing that I would really like to know is if my Dad is entitled to Patti's diary. Like Anne, I get nowhere with the sheriff's department and they even hinted that I was threatening "the law officers" after I made an inquiry. They really frightened me...which doesn't help a basket case like me, so I had to put my pursuit on hold for a while.
Thank you Anne, and all of you who still want to help. We know there are people closely related to someone who knows more than she will share about this case. They also want to know the truth...even if it hurts. It may be that the best we can hope for is a death-bed confession...if this person has a soul.

Without getting too lengthy here I would like to say a word in defense of my Dad and his non-involvement in this case. Our family, like Anne's, was completely devastated when these murders occurred. My sisters and I did not even know we had half sisters. Patti's mother and grandmother
would not let my Dad get involved in any way whatsover in raising or seeing his daughters.
Back in those days, we didn't have access to counceling, no money for lawyers and Patti's Mom and grandmom were the Devils-in- Carnate and completely irresponsible in taking care of Patti and my other step sisiter, who died just last January. I have a letter she sent me that was one of many stating how much my Mother and Dad wanted both girls to be in his custody but Patti's grandmother apparently had money and control over all of them and would not let my Dad ever even visit them. Only when Connie turned 18 did we, including my dad, get to see/meet her (except at Patti's funeral) She became a real sister to us and loved her Dad. She was happily married, raised a lovely family and has some beautiful children and grandchildren and a husband who loved her very much and now misses her dearly.

 

[justthinkin]

Hi 2gone,

Welcome to Websleuths. Wish you and Anne both didn't have a reason to be here. Your post has me choked up, not really knowing what to say, except to say I'm sorry you've recently lost Connie, and then losing Patty so long ago.

I don't think anyone would necessary expect your father to want to dredge up old wounds nor blame him for not being more active. He must be getting up there in years. I just can't imagine losing a child. It would be devastating, and it sounds like you and your dad lost Patty twice. It is unthinkable that she wasn't allowed to know her father and her sister, and to have had both of you in her life along with any other half-siblings she might have had.

I want to say something on Patty's behalf. I feel so sorry for Patty. It is easy to see she was a girl who was denied the love of a nurturing mother, prevented from receiving the love of her father, and she a 14yr. old girl who must have been severely emotionally abused because look where her short life had led her--to look for love in all the wrong places. That is just too sad for words. It wasn't her fault at all that she was sexually active. She was starved for attention, and it sounds that rather than being raised, she was simply allowed to grow, untended and uncared for.

This is not to take away from the pain that Mattie must have gone through, but to just say Patty wasn't responsible for anything in her young life. She was still a child herself, and subject to the whims of the adults around her. Sure she acted out, but it was the only way she knew how to feel like she mattered to someone if only for a little while, and that is truly sad.

These were both innocent girls. I wish some detective would take that to heart. It really doesn't matter whether it happened yesterday or 43 years ago. Two little girls are gone, and were irreplaceable in the lives of those who loved them.

I'm beginning to think that LE offices should each have at least one person dedicated to dealing with families of victims, of helping them understand the limits imposed on LE while remaining sympathetic to the families. To harrass, threaten or otherwise cause further pain to a family is just inexcusable. I know there are advocates for victims' families, but it's just not the same as it would be to be able to speak to someone with a sympathetic ear in the LE office with jurisdiction, someone to act as a liaison between detectives and families after a case goes cold.

2gone, I would think your father has a right, at the very minimum, to see and read your sister's diary, and make copies of its pages. You would too. I'm betting it would take a court order to obtain it though. I really don't know the answer, but someone around here more informed than I should be able to speak to that.

 

[Hurricane]

I am the step sister of Patti who had been, and still is haunted by the murders. I met Anne on line a couple of years ago whille searching for information on the murders. Just meeting her online helped me in a tremendously emotional way. Actually being able to talk to somebody about this, and find the sister of Patti's friend was a miracle. I feel comfortable in saying that Anne and I have bonded in a very unique way. I call Anne "St. Anne" for all the work she has done over the years. My family NEVER talked about it....EVER! After I left home and married I got counseling for 35 years...never knowing what really happened, like Anne. After meeting Anne I learned everything she knew and literally, physically and mentally fell apart after much talking with Anne. She understood this and also how my sister Connie and my Dad had buried it soooooo deeply she also respected my request not to upset my Dad after this many years. Now that Connie is gone, her daughters will probably get more active.

One thing that I would really like to know is if my Dad is entitled to Patti's diary.

Like Anne, I get nowhere with the sheriff's department and they even hinted that I was threatening "the law officers" after I made an inquiry. They really frightened me...which doesn't help a basket case like me, so I had to put my pursuit on hold for a while.
Thank you Anne, and all of you who still want to help. We know there are people closely related to someone who knows more than she will share about this case. They also want to know the truth...even if it hurts. It may be that the best we can hope for is a death-bed confession...if this person has a soul.

Without getting too lengthy here I would like to say a word in defense of my Dad and his non-involvement in this case. Our family, like Anne's, was completely devastated when these murders occurred. My sisters and I did not even know we had half sisters. Patti's mother and grandmother
would not let my Dad get involved in any way whatsover in raising or seeing his daughters.
Back in those days, we didn't have access to counceling, no money for lawyers and Patti's Mom and grandmom were the Devils-in- Carnate and completely irresponsible in taking care of Patti and my other step sisiter, who died just last January. I have a letter she sent me that was one of many stating how much my Mother and Dad wanted both girls to be in his custody but Patti's grandmother apparently had money and control over all of them and would not let my Dad ever even visit them. Only when Connie turned 18 did we, including my dad, get to see/meet her (except at Patti's funeral) She became a real sister to us and loved her Dad. She was happily married, raised a lovely family and has some beautiful children and grandchildren and a husband who loved her very much and now misses her dearly.

Thank you for your post and joining us here. I do hope you will stay and contribute as well. We are all trying to stick to the known facts of the case and stay clear of unsubstantiated rumors, but your impressions of certain aspects of the case could be helpful.

For clarity could you tell us your birth year or how old you were when this happened in 1961? And could you tell us where you are in the birth order with your full sisters (you don’t mention having brothers).

One thing that I would really like to know is if my Dad is entitled to Patti's diary.

I’m not a lawyer but since this case is considered an open investigation (although a cold case currently) I would doubt that your dad would have any right to Patty’s diary. The argument could be made that LE could photocopy the diary and return the original but there may be leads or facts (maybe yet to be discovered even) that it contains and so LE can’t risk letting those out to anyone. Since there are no known serious suspects at this point then all are considered to be potential suspects.

We must stick to the known facts here, from what has been published and from the reports that Anne has. But please don’t be offended by anything that has or will be said here. We have to try and follow the leads where ever they may take us. And I know that’s not easy for family members.

 

[Bobbi]

I have a question in reference to Patty's clothes. It was stated that her clothes were neatly folded with her purse on top of them, but in the photo it showed her bra hanging off a bush and a man picking up her shoes from the ground...."her clothes were strewn about". This confuses me.

 

[Bobbi]

Nancy Mosley and Linda Lou Roberts describe a lurking elderly man with dark hair in a chevy with NM plates. Earl Nichols would not have dark hair, but graying and would not have a car with NM plates. But elderly does not describe David Blair.

Tom, Nichols could have dyed his hair dark.

 

[TOM BEYER]

In a search of "Artell Blair", I came across a profile at mylife.com. It listed Artell E. Blair, 87, at 606 N. Olive Street, Carlsbad, 505-885-5810. Relatives listed were Kenneth Blair, 60 and Willie D., 90. I could not obtain more info without paying, so I passed. Wilie D. was born in 1918 and so it would be correct that he would have been 90 in 2008, if it weren't for his premature death in 1987!

Bobbi, you are right that Nichols could have dyed his hair black. But in the photo, Nichols clearly has not dyed his hair. In his photo, David Blair has definite black hair. But I never want to get too myopic about any one suspect.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Tom, I agree with you. I was going to go back and reread everything to see if I could figure out what Titus's angle was, but I've yet to get around to it.

Did he have someone off Dan McGrew? That could make alot of sense, here. Titus being on the phone with Dan when Dan was shot gives Titus an excellent alibi. If he aided and abetted the murderer of the girls, that's a serious charge in itself. Titus may have gotten wind that Dan knew what role Titus played, and Titus got worried.

I wish I could remember if I saw a maiden name for Artell. I just wonder if there wasn't some familial tie there to Titus with the Blairs or if Titus and Artell had ever had a thing going? Whichever kind of tie it was, it had to be a strong one to get Titus involved in this if he was, and his actions sure speak to him being invovled in some way.



Just from Nichols picture and based on the info Anne got from his daughter and granddaughter, he may have been a molester, and if so, I could picture him with clearly prepubescent girls, but less so teens.

I just don't think he'd have had the strength to move the bodies or for that matter even commit a crime like this at his age. He died 3 years afterwards. That tells me he most likely wasn't in the best of health when the murders happened. If he was or had been a predator, could it be that he spotted a younger predator watching the girls, and so he was keen on the situation? If he had a history of molestation, even if he didn't do this crime, the fact that it occured and he was in the neighborhood, may have panicked him. Heck, maybe he was up to something, but Blair got to them first. A guilty conscience just for having bad thoughts concerning the girls may have sent Nichols packing.

I have heard the name LOggins as Artells maiden name...someone told me that several years ago...and this person lived in Monahans, Texas as well. Brother...but died several years ago. Might have been something in the Pecos, Texas newspaper.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I am the step sister of Patti who had been, and still is haunted by the murders. I met Anne on line a couple of years ago whille searching for information on the murders. Just meeting her online helped me in a tremendously emotional way. Actually being able to talk to somebody about this, and find the sister of Patti's friend was a miracle. I feel comfortable in saying that Anne and I have bonded in a very unique way. I call Anne "St. Anne" for all the work she has done over the years. My family NEVER talked about it....EVER! After I left home and married I got counseling for 35 years...never knowing what really happened, like Anne. After meeting Anne I learned everything she knew and literally, physically and mentally fell apart after much talking with Anne. She understood this and also how my sister Connie and my Dad had buried it soooooo deeply she also respected my request not to upset my Dad after this many years. Now that Connie is gone, her daughters will probably get more active. One thing that I would really like to know is if my Dad is entitled to Patti's diary. Like Anne, I get nowhere with the sheriff's department and they even hinted that I was threatening "the law officers" after I made an inquiry. They really frightened me...which doesn't help a basket case like me, so I had to put my pursuit on hold for a while.
Thank you Anne, and all of you who still want to help. We know there are people closely related to someone who knows more than she will share about this case. They also want to know the truth...even if it hurts. It may be that the best we can hope for is a death-bed confession...if this person has a soul.

Without getting too lengthy here I would like to say a word in defense of my Dad and his non-involvement in this case. Our family, like Anne's, was completely devastated when these murders occurred. My sisters and I did not even know we had half sisters. Patti's mother and grandmother
would not let my Dad get involved in any way whatsover in raising or seeing his daughters.
Back in those days, we didn't have access to counceling, no money for lawyers and Patti's Mom and grandmom were the Devils-in- Carnate and completely irresponsible in taking care of Patti and my other step sisiter, who died just last January. I have a letter she sent me that was one of many stating how much my Mother and Dad wanted both girls to be in his custody but Patti's grandmother apparently had money and control over all of them and would not let my Dad ever even visit them. Only when Connie turned 18 did we, including my dad, get to see/meet her (except at Patti's funeral) She became a real sister to us and loved her Dad. She was happily married, raised a lovely family and has some beautiful children and grandchildren and a husband who loved her very much and now misses her dearly.

Thank You 2 gone for joinging us here on websleuths...I just thought you might like to know what is going on....

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I have a question in reference to Patty's clothes. It was stated that her clothes were neatly folded with her purse on top of them, but in the photo it showed her bra hanging off a bush and a man picking up her shoes from the ground...."her clothes were strewn about". This confuses me.

From what I was told by the investigator in the case (2003) the undergarments were thrown around...but her outside clothing were folded and her purse and dairy were sitting on top. I was like you...it looks like the clothes are everywhere. But when I read the reports it stated that her shoe was thrown out and the other close to the body...very close. Also her necktie...the one that goes with the sailor top. Patty's clothes...her top and hat belonged to her step-father I believe.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I've also wondered the very same thing. How did Gaines know where Patty lived and what was said during the 45 minute visit with her mother?? It makes me think that he had known Patty.

Gaines was one of Patty's old boyfriends. That is what the police reports state.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I don't live in Carlsbad, but in Los Alamos, NM. Hopefully, I can get down to Carlsbad this month. I want to visit and take pictures at some of the points of interest involved in this unsolved murder. Carlsbad is still the nation's largest producer of potash, employing over 1500. In 1961, Carlsbad was the world's largest producer.

Tom if you go to Carlsbad...the house that is on the lot at 316 N. Lake is not the house we lived in...I don't know what happened to our house...but the one there now was built way after the murders...but the lot is the same. Also if you go out to the murder scene...it has some changes...due to new highway construction...and a lake I believe. But there is two white crosses close by where the bodies were found. I also know someone that might show you where the girls were found...he is the one that erected the crosses in memory of the girls.