NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#27

[nowvoyager]

Good to hear the fundraising for the girls is going well.
I've been mulling things over and despite what was supposedly put up by the CP at the bail hearing, about TM's contact with GBC regarding an overlap at a conference, I'm perplexed.
I guess it would be a really easy thing to resolve if you knew ABC's friends/work colleagues, or if you were in the REIQ admin, to know which conference ABC were going to.
Personally and its just MOO, she was not going to a Real Estate Property Management conference. It just to me doesn't make sense. Sure she might have been mentioned on the Century 21 website but I can't see her really having an involvement in the agency or the business (maybe through company shares/directorship but not active?)
I think it much more likely that it was a conference relating to her own interest/expertiese - psychology - development of resilience in children - training.
I remember the link to Pathways was mentioned a lot early on, and that a poster said the hairdresser told her they had been questioned, and that ABC was talking about a Pathways seminar the next day. Can't find anything, but I remember googling a bit a long time back and finding another organisation that was linked, that had something going on 20th. (dratted brain cells and that you don't write things down at the time!!!)
Maybe it doesn't turn on much anyway, it's just I wonder if the police mis-interpreted what TM said, if she said "I told GBC to tell his wife that we would both be at the same conference tomorrow" but she didn't mean she and ABC, she meant that she (TM) and GBC were both booked to go to the REIQ conference and she was worried that ABC might find out they were crossing paths.
In any case, is there any way to find out if TM went to the conference after all?

 

[CJ60]

I did not go today. I went to the bridge yesterday and place a couple of dozen sunflowers on the cross, and then drove around Brookfield. Sometimes it is all too much.

Keentoknow, you have found the strength to visit the bridge; the beautiful gesture of the sunflower cross. You are truly an amazing woman! :heart:

Itsthevibe, Nads and Bellgirl...thank you. There is a tremendous sense of community on this forum, and the fact that you were at Brookfield today - it feels like your being present, was for all of us.

Today I am thinking of all the 'Allison's', the parents that have lost daughters, and children that have lost their mums. We can only hope that out of this tragedy that we are now aware of what can happen to women in Allison's position.. and take steps to stop it happening in the future.

 

[pulpfiction]

Minnie...just to clarify wasn't implying you were blaming TM. May have read that way. Apologies - I meant the general population not you personally

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Do you know what time tonight Trooper?

I seriously doubt it would be TM. She is now a witness for the prosecution if a trial eventuates and IMO she has been offered immunity, so blabbing to the media would not be in her best interests. I'm sure her lawyer would have also advised her on this. IMO.

So perhaps it's one of the other fufu's wanting her 15 minutes of fame? :waitasec:

MOO.

I agree. I don't think it would be TM if she is a witness and to partake in the trial.. It has to be - I would think someone else..maybe the Sydney woman that was interviewed by police? (The one met at gold coast conference)

 

[J-Diggety]

is s.n.i.g.g.e.r a swear word?? who knew?

Drop the S, swear word filter

 

[Bayside]

Toni sat on her backside and said nothing while the search went on for days and nights, and Mr and Mrs Dickie became unhinged with grief as did Allisons daughters.. the only time she co operated with the police, and this after having to be hauled in by them, she didnt volunteer,. was when her little tacky dream went to *advertiser censored* when the evidence of Gerards other pants activities were revealed to her.

so excuse me for not seeing Toni as a victim in all this.. I'll pass on that one, thanks.

Havent read other posts just this page and wanted to say I think Toni has blood on her hands.

She is very lucky as it could have been her instead or also. IMO

 

[marlywings]

As I mentioned she is going through a hard time. No matter what we think of her for hooking up with a male who is married we must remember she is also a victim of GBC. He played her. Yes, she lives, but I'd bet a part of her died the same time ABC did. GBC has destroyed her life and much of her family also. We can only hope that she had no clue what was about to transpire. To think she could have done something is just heartbreaking if true but I doubt it.

TM worked with the guy..Allison it seemed worked there too. TM may well be a victim of his but she put herself in with him when she would have been well aware he was married....that to me means she couldn't have cared less about Allison or the girls. Plus she was well old enough to know better.

 

[Trooper]

yea, but I didnt drop the S...

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Good to hear the fundraising for the girls is going well.
I've been mulling things over and despite what was supposedly put up by the CP at the bail hearing, about TM's contact with GBC regarding an overlap at a conference, I'm perplexed.
I guess it would be a really easy thing to resolve if you knew ABC's friends/work colleagues, or if you were in the REIQ admin, to know which conference ABC were going to.
Personally and its just MOO, she was not going to a Real Estate Property Management conference. It just to me doesn't make sense. Sure she might have been mentioned on the Century 21 website but I can't see her really having an involvement in the agency or the business (maybe through company shares/directorship but not active?)
I think it much more likely that it was a conference relating to her own interest/expertiese - psychology - development of resilience in children - training.
I remember the link to Pathways was mentioned a lot early on, and that a poster said the hairdresser told her they had been questioned, and that ABC was talking about a Pathways seminar the next day. Can't find anything, but I remember googling a bit a long time back and finding another organisation that was linked, that had something going on 20th. (dratted brain cells and that you don't write things down at the time!!!)
Maybe it doesn't turn on much anyway, it's just I wonder if the police mis-interpreted what TM said, if she said "I told GBC to tell his wife that we would both be at the same conference tomorrow" but she didn't mean she and ABC, she meant that she (TM) and GBC were both booked to go to the REIQ conference and she was worried that ABC might find out they were crossing paths.
In any case, is there any way to find out if TM went to the conference after all?

Wasn't it stated in court that it was the same conference they were due at on the Friday.. a Real Estate conference? Don't think TM would be going to a pathways conference(MOO)..

 

[Mani]

As I mentioned she is going through a hard time. No matter what we think of her for hooking up with a male who is married we must remember she is also a victim of GBC. He played her. Yes, she lives, but I'd bet a part of her died the same time ABC did. GBC has destroyed her life and much of her family also. We can only hope that she had no clue what was about to transpire. To think she could have done something is just heartbreaking if true but I doubt it.

I do wonder if we'll ever know what happened that night. TM it seems wasn't there from all accounts. So, only GBC and ABC know what was said.

What's interesting is that TM had some foresight perhaps with saying that ABC and she would be at the same conference. To me that implies some sort of warning that there was a potential for conflict to erupt in a public place and that this would be difficult for both women. Irrespective of what TM and ABC may have thought of each other. Clearly they knew each other. She worked at ABC's husbands office. I don't think we can necessarily blame TM for what happened. Right now it appears that GBC's motive was money not his relationship with TM.

I agree with what someone said earlier. I doubt GBC was going to build a new life with TM. he may have implied that as part of his game but he had other women. And a bucket load of money woes that weren't going to go away just because he left ABC for TM.

** all IMO **

If a guy told me that he was going to have to lay low for a while and then his wife went missing, I think I would be seriously questioning his motives IMO and did I really know this person.

 

[pulpfiction]

TM worked with the guy..Allison it seemed worked there too. TM may well be a victim of his but she put herself in with him when she would have been well aware he was married....that to me means she couldn't have cared less about Allison or the girls. Plus she was well old enough to know better.

Agreed on all you said. People do STUPID things when they think they're in love or have a chance. So many women are guilty of hanging around for years thinking the man will leave the wife. She should have known better. Reap what you sow and all that. If it wasn't her it'd have been one of the others I guess. Imagine how many times you'd be in the shower trying scrub yourself clean now if you'd been intimate with him!

 

[Mothergoose]

In my opinion they would know as well as we know who is responsible - no doubt about it. They have been around for long enough to have known from day one as well - they know crims better than the average Joe!

It is only if the accused actually makes an admission of guilt to his lawyer, that they must cease to act or advise to enter a lower plea such as manslaughter, as I understand it. These lawyers are doing their job - their view would be that everyone is entitled to a defence and in law the accused is innocent until proven guilty.

If GBC's legal team are convinced in any way that he is guilty it would be in their interest to get a confession. They must know that there is no way he has the cash (no credit with lawyers) to pay for a full trial.I see a confession coming on.lease:

 

[Mani]

The caterpillar could be in with the pollen tests to see where it lived at the time......A butterfly with teeth lol:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

A butterfly is a thing of beauty - a grub is a bit of a ground hugging slider of a thing or under leaf eating machine (with all due respect to grubs; I am sure their mothers love them).

 

[BreakingNews]

Channel 10 5pm news starting soon has story on the Brookfield event today.

 

[pulpfiction]

If a guy told me that he was going to have to lay low for a while and then his wife went missing, I think I would be seriously questioning his motives IMO and did I really know this person.

I'm uncertain but I think he told her that after the fact? But still you're right. Thank goodness she seems to be cooperating with police. Clearly she didn't know him at all. No one did. Not even his family.

All IMO

 

[nowvoyager]

In fact, the massive amounts of money he owes 'that we've heard about' is mind boggling. It says to me that he has been scamming and shuffling money a. Long time and I wouldn't be surprised if he owes many many more peole and is borrowing from these latest to avoid some knee capping. Or worse. This could be the tip of the iceberg. MOO MOO MOO

It would not be unusual for someone in debt to find it spiralled out of control very quickly. I don't know anything about his company structures etc, but the word was that he went from a small office elsewhere to a large flash office. That would in itself have involved some set-up costs, fit-out, a bond for the lease, etc.
He had staff, apparently quite a lot of them at one point, but I guess a lot of the agents might have been on a commission -only basis.
Still, if commission were due, it had to be paid, rent, wages for the permanent staff like reception and accounts.
There are advertising fees - a lot of those ads have to be pre-paid and carried until the owners reimburse at settlement.
Phones, power, list goes on.
Then when income starts to dry up they "rob Peter to pay Paul". I do not mean theft, I mean probably borrow a little more here and there to cover interest payments elsewhere, all to keep things afloat hoping that finances will turn around.
There would also, as I see they mentioned, fees due to the franchise owner. Maybe there were rent arrears accumulating, unpaid super, unpaid GST.
If ABC were involved somewhere in the company structure - nothing unusual for a wife to be a co-owner (in fact a lot of husbands would put many assests just in a trusting wife's name to keep them safe from creditors) it may have gotten to the point where GBC had to increase borrowings and that involved asking ABC to sign new loan docs, act as continuing guarantor to an ever growing debt. She may have said... not so fast.
All, again, in MOO

 

[Trooper]

S.N.A.F.U.

Allisons brother, not Gerards lover to speak publicly.

oh dear..

this is what happens when people yell things to you from the house when one is in the shed.

 

[KG1]

Thanks KG1 Couldn't find if it was registered to just GBC. If it was a joint venture, then that means it wasn't just GBC in a financial pickle was it?

There will be another entity behind the trading trust, which will be the trustee of the trust/s. It is that entity which which will have the directors and the directors could be directors of a joint venture or a partnership. Eg: XYZ Pty Ltd & KLM Pty Ltd, trustee for the Baden Clay Family Trust. In this example, it could be a partnership with the 2 companies having their own directors. Or it could be XYZ Pty Ltd & KLM Pty Ltd Joint Venture, in which case the two companies making up the joint venture would still have their own directors. The trustee entity would do a tax return for the trust, but the income is distributed to the beneficiaries of the trust, and it is the beneficiaries of the trust who pay the tax. As these trusts under ABNs are discretionary trusts, there is no obligation to distribute the income - the trustee has that discretion. Money in a trust cannot be touched by creditors, or in the case of a challenge to a will, any funds in a trust cannot be touched or included in the challenge. Most small businesses have a family trust.

 

[Keentoknow]

As I mentioned she is going through a hard time. No matter what we think of her for hooking up with a male who is married we must remember she is also a victim of GBC. He played her. Yes, she lives, but I'd bet a part of her died the same time ABC did. GBC has destroyed her life and much of her family also. We can only hope that she had no clue what was about to transpire. To think she could have done something is just heartbreaking if true but I doubt it.

I do wonder if we'll ever know what happened that night. TM it seems wasn't there from all accounts. So, only GBC and ABC know what was said.

What's interesting is that TM had some foresight perhaps with saying that ABC and she would be at the same conference. To me that implies some sort of warning that there was a potential for conflict to erupt in a public place and that this would be difficult for both women. Irrespective of what TM and ABC may have thought of each other. Clearly they knew each other. She worked at ABC's husbands office. I don't think we can necessarily blame TM for what happened. Right now it appears that GBC's motive was money not his relationship with TM.

I agree with what someone said earlier. I doubt GBC was going to build a new life with TM. he may have implied that as part of his game but he had other women. And a bucket load of money woes that weren't going to go away just because he left ABC for TM.

** all IMO **

Wondering if she would be on police protection as well.

 

[Trooper]

What we must remember is that Toni , even after Allison went for a walk and disappeared and a Search and Rescue was put in place immediately and days went on and nights went on and Allison wasnt found, Toni tripped off to work, collected her emails from Bruce and went on with her dream!... we must not forget that.