NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#27

[Kimster]

I've been reading this site for quite some time. There is little doubt, based on what has been disclosed, that GBC has a personality disorder. I know him slso. Obviously he's quite narcissistic but also has anti-social tendencies evidenced by lack of remorse for affairs, the death of his wife and the tormented lives his children will lead. People like him just keep carrying on adding to their debt, seeking female attention and become quite cold and detached.

I doubt ABC or TM knew the full extent of what he was up to. I suspect TM did not know how dire his financial situation was. I suspect he had her charmed. He thought he was good at playing people. I also believe ABC found out the depths of his deceit with EVERYTHING (including the money) and it all came to a head that evening.

I also doubt OW, the sister, even had half a clue what he'd been up to. The same is probably true of his parents until that nignt. Saving face is important with narcissists. Theyre extremely deceitful and truly masters of manipulation. However, I bet his parents had long had concerns over what he was up to as a man but didn't know what he was in fact capable of (think Matthew Newton here). I'd imagine over the years as parents their eyebrows had been raised by his behaviour. You don't just become narcissistic. No wonder he was in real estate! He'd also have made a great used car salesman. Eventually, it comes out they're not as clever as they think they are. Hence, the stupid, stupid things he's done and thought no-one would find out about.p and lack of remorse. But they come down like a house of cards - and I bet he has in Arthur Gorrie!

All this is my opinion but I do believe the BC parents are involved. Someone helped him that night when they became fully aware of everything. I also think they have bailed him out financially before - ie. the debt he owes them. How stupid is TM though. And yep, I bet there are other women!

2 last things quickly. Why would anyone think it ABC menstrual blood in the back of the car? Even IF she was menstruating it would be highly unlikely she was not using sanitary items. Even IF personal hygiene had not been attended to for some hours it is very unusual that menstrual blood would seep out beyond underwear, into her track pants and then onto to a surface in the car leaving tell tale signs. It doesn't gush out! <modsnip, already addressed>

Btw, there WILL be more arrests soon and when it ALL comes out it will be quite shocking that all this was going on in Brisbane and in business. Mark my words. GBC was quite the character and very sneaky - but also arrogant and dumb enough to think he was intelligent.

REMEMBER ALL THIS IS JMO

I think I'm the one who mentioned that type of blood as a possibility. At the time I thought there was a MSM link stating that COD was strangulation, so I was just speculating how blood could have been found at all. Since then, I haven't seen verification of COD so that's a mute point. It's perfectly fine to speculate here. That's what we do, as long as it makes sense based on the information we have at the time.

And :welcome: to Websleuths! I am glad you joined and contributed a well thought out first post! :cheer:

 

[Curiousasacat]

and it seems that some of his previous speculations have come true, or may be about to ...

Sorry Vibie!!! As they say great minds.

I have to go back to page 2. Still reading lease:
Will try and refrain my fingers from typing and searching until caught up. : )

 

[minni]

Hi there pulpfiction, really good post! Good insight into the type of person he is. Things did get wildly off topic last night, I was very guilty, sorry!!! Ive noticed it sometimes happens at times of high emotion, like yesterday. It helps diffuse the tension and lighten the darkness.

 

[Curiousasacat]

For 15 years they were married.

: (


I wonder if the other two mistress's were local ladies? Did they say ladies?

 

[pulpfiction]

I think I'm the one who mentioned that type of blood as a possibility. At the time I thought there was a MSM link stating that COD was strangulation, so I was just speculating how blood could have been found at all. Since then, I haven't seen verification of COD so that's a mute point. It's perfectly fine to speculate here. That's what we do, as long as it makes sense based on the information we have at the time.

And :welcome: to Websleuths! I am glad you joined and contributed a well thought out first post! :cheer:

Thanks for the welcome. FACT: COD will come out at the appropriate time. If there was no clearly established COD she would not have been buried. It is well known how she died. It just hasn't been released yet because more arrests will follow and the investigation is continuing. QPS know what they're doing. They're great actually. And, whilst much is circumstantial the timeline and string of events is compelling to say the least.

No the menstrual blood comment didn't come from you originally. Yes speculation is one thing but thinking before you write is also another. Weighing up probabilities is yet another. This site prides itself and there are great posts by people with intimate inside knowledge. Wild accusations and poorly thought out speculations just to get a post is ... Well I am sure you get my drift. However, I'm all for freedom of speech and independent ideas but the menstrual blood is reaching big time.

If we're all awake, hyped up from yesterday's events and what has been disclosed then just imagine TM, the BCs and OW! They should be shaking in their boots and lacking sleep! I think it will be interesting to see what OW does now. How she can continue to support GBC after yesterday, when she has her own family and life to consider, will be very telling. Ditto for the BCs.

Question, have they lawyered up as yet? I think that will be out soon

Also, keep an eye out for what happens with TM children...where is their father? They are hugely affected by this also and in good conscience should be spared the involvement of this awful situation. Hopefully a family member will remove them from the glare of everyine's attention also - they're bound to get it.

So many lives ruined.

 

[minni]

Curious, it just occured to me that 543 could have been a lot closer to GBC than we thought. Remember that particular post was almost harrassing the QPS to listen to them? Suppose a family member or mistress etc, wanted her to be found, and was leading police based on wheat info tashey had? Or worse, what if GBC was getting impatient? Those posts were freaky from the start

 

[pulpfiction]

Curious, it just occured to me that 543 could have been a lot closer to GBC than we thought. Remember that particular post was almost harrassing the QPS to listen to them? Suppose a family member or mistress etc, wanted her to be found, and was leading police based on wheat info tashey had? Or worse, what if GBC was getting impatient? Those posts were freaky from the start

That's great. JMO but he's already demonstrated how adept he is at being covert on the Internet - NOT! I wonder if web sleuth posts showed up on his iPhone or computer history?

 

[Curiousasacat]

Well I can see one award for GBC this year, he must be streets ahead of any other contender for the 2012 Darwin Award, has there ever been a more stupid murderer in recent history?
The irony of having a google search of "self incriminating" being one of the pieces of evidence against him.
And wouldn't it be another irony if some of family who aren't involved in this change THEIR name back to Clay to hide any association with GBC

LOL you are the most Aussie Kiwi I know. *advertiser censored*

 

[Curiousasacat]

Curious, it just occured to me that 543 could have been a lot closer to GBC than we thought. Remember that particular post was almost harrassing the QPS to listen to them? Suppose a family member or mistress etc, wanted her to be found, and was leading police based on wheat info tashey had? Or worse, what if GBC was getting impatient? Those posts were freaky from the start

Yep, I know exactly what you mean.
Still gives me shivers.
Apparently they were very far away.......BUT you can not get that kind of info from maps,seemed too in-depth to me and I`m sure many others.
I assume you are thinking the same as me as in getting impatient, like calling insurance before body identified would seem impatient?

They were also insistent about the phone and of Allison being run over.

Curious and curiouser....

 

[pulpfiction]

Oh yeah...another reason why police become involved so quickly with these type of cases is often when there is a history of DV. This has been posted before. Narcissists again are often prone to aggression, violence and fits of rage when under extreme pressure. Query ABC broken arm or nearly broken arm sometime before her fateful night was reported at hands of GBC.

This is all JMO and speculative of course

 

[summer_breeze]

http://www.news.com.au/national/ger...d-in-court-claim/story-e6frfkvr-1226406037780

By Kate Kyriacou
From: The Courier-Mail
June 23, 2012 12:00AM

<snipped>

One entry was a list of questions: "how were the hotels paid for?" "Did 'she' ever say she felt bad because he was married?" "How many people in the office knew?" "Did (the defendant) regret the whole thing, or just being caught?"

 

[Kimster]

We need to stop discussing other members, past and present. This is the second time I've reminded everyone of this rule.

ETA: Let me clarify, you can discuss information they posted like "I wonder if this post about *** was speculation or media posting?" But trying to "sleuth" who the member was is not allowed.

 

[Curiousasacat]

We need to stop discussing other members, past and present. This is the second time I've reminded everyone of this rule.

Sorry Kimster......again.....:blushing: ...........:cheers: for the reminder.

 

[Blue Bottle]

Really good point!!!! It seems Mr. Bayden-Clay (and thus Allison) has at least approximately $1,000,000 in debt. Do the creditors receive payment ahead of any provisions that might provide for the children?

Yes as far as I know, but only if the insurance money goes to Allison's estate, which in this case more than likely it will. Funeral debts have first priority over all other debts. All outstanding debts by the deceased must be paid up from their estate before what is left over can be divided up for other provisions. Keeping in mind that American assests and liability law about deceased estates may be different.

Some policies are set up where the other person gets the insurance money direct and thus avoids having the insurance money go into the estate of the deceased. This post is long winded, but hard to explain any more consisely.

I just went through all that just over a year ago with my husband who died of cancer. We were seperated, lived in different locations, we were good mates, two over 18 adult children in common, had a few things in joint name, never divorced (ended up to my benefit) and there was no other party involved. Everything went to me as per his will and I was also the sole executress of his will.

It's a long nail biting story where I though I was going to lose everything... He was a businessman with a lot of personal and company debt amounting to a similar amount to Gerard's debt. In his case because of a failing business due to poor economic times and illness with his cancer.

His old life policies had been long lapsed but before he died, I found a still valid new life policy, under a year old at the time. I could hardly believe it, he had skimmed that one in really really tight. Had he taken it out 6 weeks later to the date he had, it would have been invalid because his cancer would have been diagnosed by then.

Ended up that not only was I sole beneficiary to his life policy, but I was also the ' joint owner' of it (I couldn't remember signing it, but sure enough, I had.) So, because we both owned his life policy, it meant that it was paid direct to me in my name and not to his name because it wasn't seen as part of his estate. Once I made the claim, it took less than a month to go through.

Because it was all my money and did not form part of his estate, the only debts I had to paid was any debt in joint names. That's because, on his death, I am automatically liable for all debts in joint names... Meaning, his personal debts under his name only, are not my debts. I did not have anything to do with his company and so his personal company business debt is not my debt nor were his own private credit cards..

Three months before he died, bank foreclose on his house which was in his name only and that covered all debts with his house... My house was in 'joint tenancy', which meant that by rights of survivorship, his half automatically went to me and not into his estate. Had my home been 'tenants in common', his half would go into his estate and his personal debts which were in his name only, taken out of his half.

It was all set up in such a way, be by accident or intent, I don't know, that he ended up with no money in his estate, thus no money to pay for his personal debts. He even gave away all his wordly possessions to family before he died and though he stayed with me just before he died, he died literally destitute.

I got his life insurance, the other half of the house I live in, paid the few joint debts including the house morgage for the house I lived in (joint debt). His creditors got sweet nothing for the debts in his name because he has nothing in his estate. In fact, his estate owes me for his funeral costs and for his legal fees which I paid for out of my own money which I got from his life insurance.

Once he was sick, he gave me whatever cash he had which was never much, for a joint account which on his death, because the account was in joint names, automatically transfered to me and thus his part of the savings did not go into his estate.

I found that no matter how broke we were at the time, I always paid his insurance money every month before food, morgage and everything else. Even the dog and his cat had to wait in line for their share. It's what he wanted because he said it was what would save me (and our children's future inheritance if I didn't spend it all). He 'saved' me by not ever involving my name with the business he ran with his brother.

It's the only time in my life where I could tell a bank (banks he used personally) where to stick it. Great power trip that one.

 

[summer_breeze]

Yes as far as I know, but only if the insurance money goes to Allison's estate, which in this case more than likely it will. Funeral debts have first priority over all other debts. All outstanding debts by the deceased must be paid up from their estate before what is left over can be divided up for other provisions. Keeping in mind that American assests and liability law about deceased estates may be different.

Some policies are set up where the other person gets the insurance money direct and thus avoids having the insurance money go into the estate of the deceased. This post is long winded, but hard to explain any more consisely.

I just went through all that just over a year ago with my husband who died of cancer. We were seperated, lived in different locations, we were good mates, two over 18 adult children in common, had a few things in joint name, never divorced (ended up to my benefit) and there was no other party involved. Everything went to me as per his will and I was also the sole executress of his will.

It's a long nail biting story where I though I was going to lose everything... He was a businessman with a lot of personal and company debt amounting to a similar amount to Gerard's debt. In his case because of a failing business due to poor economic times and illness with his cancer.

His old life policies had been long lapsed but before he died, I found a still valid new life policy, under a year old at the time. I could hardly believe it, he had skimmed that one in really really tight. Had he taken it out 6 weeks later to the date he had, it would have been invalid because his cancer would have been diagnosed by then.

Ended up that not only was I sole beneficiary to his life policy, but I was also the ' joint owner' of it (I couldn't remember signing it, but sure enough, I had.) So, because we both owned his life policy, it meant that it was paid direct to me in my name and not to his name because it wasn't seen as part of his estate. Once I made the claim, it took less than a month to go through.

Because it was all my money and did not form part of his estate, the only debts I had to paid was any debt in joint names. That's because, on his death, I am automatically liable for all debts in joint names... Meaning, his personal debts under his name only, are not my debts. I did not have anything to do with his company and so his personal company business debt is not my debt nor were his own private credit cards..

Three months before he died, bank foreclose on his house which was in his name only and that covered all debts with his house... My house was in 'joint tenancy', which meant that by rights of survivorship, his half automatically went to me and not into his estate. Had my home been 'tenants in common', his half would go into his estate and his personal debts which were in his name only, taken out of his half.

It was all set up in such a way, be by accident or intent, I don't know, that he ended up with no money in his estate, thus no money to pay for his personal debts. He even gave away all his wordly possessions to family before he died and though he stayed with me just before he died, he died literally destitute.

I got his life insurance, the other half of the house I live in, paid the few joint debts including the house morgage for the house I lived in (joint debt). His creditors got sweet nothing for the debts in his name because he has nothing in his estate. In fact, his estate owes me for his funeral costs and for his legal fees which I paid for out of my own money which I got from his life insurance.

Once he was sick, he gave me whatever cash he had which was never much, for a joint account which on his death, because the account was in joint names, automatically transfered to me and thus his part of the savings did not go into his estate.

I found that no matter how broke we were at the time, I always paid his insurance money every month before food, morgage and everything else. Even the dog and his cat had to wait in line for their share. It's what he wanted because he said it was what would save me (and our children's future inheritance if I didn't spend it all). He 'saved' me by not ever involving my name with the business he ran with his brother.

It's the only time in my life where I could tell a bank (banks he used personally) where to stick it. Great power trip that one.

Thanks Blue!!! I doubt that Allison "separated* finances. That makes me sad.

 

[minni]

Thank you, Nads for sharing this most interesting information. My apologies in advance if this issue has already been explored.

IMO, it is curious that ABC called the life insurance company in relation to her policies on 17 April two days before she was killed (19 April).

The Courier Mail Article http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...226405967381&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13403724206473 says:

"According to the police bail documents, on April 12, when Allison Baden-Clay had barely a week left to live, her husband picked up the phone in his office and dialled the company that held one of her two life insurance policies.

He asked for information on the policy but was told it could not be provided because it was not in his name, police alleged".​

Based on the Courier Mail article and Nads' post, IMO, while it is possible that GBC may have prompted ABC to call the life insurance company to discuss options to reduce premiums, it is not impossible that a woman claiming to be ABC may have called the life insurance company in order to obtain information for GBC. :what:

If I was having a seedy affair and he asked me to impersonate his wife over the phone regarding her life insurance, I would run for the hillsanic:
I hope TM wasn't in a position where she could have said something, voiced a concern about him, and maybe had the knowledge to change what happened...that would be most shocking of all, I couldn't live wih that

 

[Kimster]

Wow Blue Bottle! Thank you for the explanation on how that works. I pray Allison's girls will find themselves separated from the debt also. I think it might work since I don't see any indication that Allison was part of the real estate business - or was she?

 

[Straitfan]

http://www.news.com.au/national/ger...d-in-court-claim/story-e6frfkvr-1226406037780

By Kate Kyriacou
From: The Courier-Mail
June 23, 2012 12:00AM

Wow is all I can think! And to think this all could only be a "tip of the iceberg" is a scary thought.... My heart breaks so much for the little girls and ABC's family

 

[minni]

Wow Blue Bottle! Thank you for the explanation on how that works. I pray Allison's girls will find themselves separated from the debt also. I think it might work since I don't see any indication that Allison was part of the real estate business - or was she?

I looked through businesses and trusts etc owned by the family and there were a lot! The only jointly owned one and the only one in Allisons name was WOTS shared with GBC, fingers crossed the girls don't have to pay for any more of his f*#kups and messes, they've already paid a thousand times over

 

[Curiousasacat]

I hope they collect lots of money for the girls tomorrow, and to help make life a bit easier for the Dickies.
It must be hugely challenging to be retired and having to start over raising children again.
The sad thing is, it must happen regularly when a partner kills his spouse, must be many grandparents having to do this.

I think the cricket match is too soon now.
It is so close to the house(literally) and people are still in "shock".
I don't think it would be good for the girls to be there?
:moo: