NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #5

[komodo]

Well the Sheriff gave us nothing to work on, at least NY Times guys dug something out. From the article that was linked before, here is some reading for you guys and girls, in raw format as we sleuthers like it. Psychiatric evaluation of Bingo Bruce aka Paddock sr.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docum...nix-Criminal-15713-Governments-Exhibit-1.html

 

[Iona]

Spice, he is responsible for the conspiracy theories by not handling it as he should have to date.
How much time has passed and there was almost no new information.?
What does that foster?
stories,
I'm beginning to think in terms of conspiracies now myself and I never was before.

To withold information for this much time following a mass casualty event when the help of the general public is both requested and needed is to foster a bad climate for co-operation, catharsis or resolution.
We've done more work on websleuths in a single night!!

Yes,yes and yes...

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[Iona]

I guess you edited your comment as I was responding. In reference to that last part, the most telling part is that he only addressed conspiracy theories that directly impacted him and the perception of him and his force. Nothing about Campos. Nothing about ideology. Nothing about multiple shooters. Nothing about anything other than “We’re not incompetent and we aren’t covering anything up.”

Damage control because of poor optics. :moo:

m00c0w, you are spot on!

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[kittythehare]

Well the Sheriff gave us nothing to work on, at least NY Times guys dug something out. From the article that was linked before, here is some reading for you guys and girls, in raw format as we sleuthers like it. Psychiatric evaluation of Bingo Bruce aka Paddock sr.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docum...nix-Criminal-15713-Governments-Exhibit-1.html

Thank you.
This is the only newspaper I pay for...

 

[Spice]

I'm saying that he should not have addressed them. You're the one saying he needed to...

Actually, I was commenting on how astounded I was to hear LE HAVE to address conspiracy theories, because they have become so pervasive and damaging in our culture. I have never ever seen LE address them so directly during an investigation. They have always existed but they are more pervasive in our culture than ever as is fake news. The commentary was more about how shocking it is to me that these things are so prevalent and their tentacles so far reaching that they have infiltrated our culture and ability to find truth. I defended him in addressing it because of its infectious nature on public perception and our ability to separate LIES from the truth.

and I'm saying that the only ones he actually addressed were about himself and his department. The only "misinformation" he was trying to fix was that he was incompetent. Self-serving.

Again, how can you separate conspiracy theories about "him" and his department from conspiracy theories surrounding the investigation? The two are intricately entwined and inseparable. He is in charge of the investigation (with FBI) that the conspiracy theories pertain to . Conspiracy theories in and of themselves are inherently self serving and serve to narrate an agenda. Calling his need to address lies and conspiracies surrounding the investigation he and his department are conducting "inappropriate and self serving" is pure victim blaming and gaslighting .

So either 1) you agree that he left a huge gap in not addressing the most rampant conspiracy theories (which your defense of directly addressing them rests on correcting misinformation)

He "addressed" them by providing and stating facts surrounding them. (Campos timeline, body cams, one shooter, no evidence of ideology or extremism), things that you have repeatedly stated he did not address, So in essence he did exactly what you are accusing him of not doing.

or 2) he can address conspiracy theories by simply releasing facts that contradict misinformation and leaving it at that.

This bears repeating.

He "addressed" them by providing and stating facts surrounding them. (Campos timeline, body cams, one shooter, no evidence of ideology or extremism) So in essence he did exactly what you are accusing him of not doing.

I personally believe #2, and see him only correcting notions of incompetence as a politician not wanting to look bad before campaign season. :moo:

BBM

I believe that your personal belief of #2 is an oversimplification of the complex issues. You are entitled to your opinion and am entitled to respectfully disagree with it.

 

[Iona]

When conspiracy theories are being utilized to call you incompetent and a liar without any basis in fact, he absolutely has the right to defend himself and his department by addressing them. Also, I do not agree. He could stand up there and provide a litany of detail regarding the investigation, and guess what, there would be a million new conspiracy theories and fake news spawned from that.

Let the man, his department, and the FBI do their investigation. People can criticize , people can question, but that is different than what has been happening . People are lying and accusing and literally creating fake news to inject LIES into what has been released. Remember the "CNN" link that was shared here, accusing Campos of being the second shooter. It is madness. Pure madness.

Then what are we here for Spice? To discuss the weather in Las Vegas , while you defend the Sheriff?

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[Iona]

I hate them probably more than you do and I pursue them as terrorists.
No self respecting LE officer has ever given them the time of day, much less even read the nonsense. They are trained not to go there.

He has chosen to ignore or not take on board his responsibility to make a place feel reassured, to speak from his heart or even to assemble the few facts he has coherently.. there were gaps for the loonies because he left them.
Pressers days apart, on Friday evenings is a tactic of avoidance.

Too scanty info.. no new info.. hardly any info ever, none at all on who the shooter was or even a guess at his motivation...leaves a gaping chasm..
We're not children.

Every single mSM source had already published the correct dates and rationale.
We knew.

All we got is that a brain has been shipped off to a lab somewhere.. what was left of it, at any rate.. I dont even know why they released the initial report saying it was normal ... When was an autopsy report ever released organ by organ?
His brain couldn't have been normal as a bullet or two passed through it?

Looking for microorganisms, trust me, the man has no idea what that even means!!!🤣

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[Iona]

Snipped by me.


I love you for this comment. I feel exactly the same. Thank you .

Aww thanks Spice![emoji9]

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[Spice]

Then what are we here for Spice? To discuss the weather in Las and while you defend the Sheriff?

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My experience with WS for the five years I have been an active member, was always a discussion of the case pertaining to the facts at hand, provided with links to credible sources. I am not here to blindly defend the sheriff.

I did defend his obvious emotion and clear frustration with conspiracies and fake news as it pertains to the active investigation that he is conducting. I did not find it self serving. I found it relevant. to the untruths, viral hoaxes, and fake news that what we have been seeing right here on this forum and out there on the internet, as we attempt to dissect facts.

 

[tlcya]

some posts have been snipped. Others have been removed.

First and last warning of the day:

Continue bickering and personalizing your posts and you will be taking a vacation from posting.

 

[m00c0w]

So, two weird things at this presser. First is the new, new timeline. The first timeline had Campos getting shot after the shooting had been ongoing, and effectively stopped the shooting and caused the shooter to turn his gun on himself, as most active shooters normally do. The second timeline, released a week later, has Campos getting shot six minutes before the shooter opened fire on the crowd. MGM released a statement saying that they did not believe the timeline to be accurate, and that Campos was shot and radioed down much sooner. The third timeline sees the Sheriff agreeing with MGM. This seems to imply that MGM was more in the know about the timeline of events than the LVMPD? It's also not clear how the building engineer fits into this new, more compressed timeline.

As for the date issue... "This was not breaking news... we were aware of the discrepancy of the 28th vs the 25th in the early parts of this investigation. What we weren't aware of is why the date of the 28th was utilized in the early portion of this, as I was provided this information as part of the person registered in the suspects room. We have come to learn the suspect did occupy the room on the 25th, and the situation on how the room was compensated or paid for had changed, and the name as part of the registration had changed to include Marilou Danley... That was the confusion associated with that."

He's certainly not clear in the beginning portion of this. They were aware of the discrepancy "in the early parts of the investigation" but they didn't know why the 28th was used in the early portions of the investigation? I'm not even sure what this means. Further, the name had "changed to include Marilou Danley" implies that her name was added to the reservation, not changed entirely. I'm not sure why that would have impacted anything. I'm also not sure why there would have been so much confusion about a name change (and therefore dates) when she was considered a person of interest almost immediately, and clearly was related to him in some way. Seems like someone just did a poor job of getting that information initially, and they were slow to release it to the public after having been saying the 28th for so long.

:moo:

 

[Betty P]

Well the Sheriff gave us nothing to work on, at least NY Times guys dug something out. From the article that was linked before, here is some reading for you guys and girls, in raw format as we sleuthers like it. Psychiatric evaluation of Bingo Bruce aka Paddock sr.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docum...nix-Criminal-15713-Governments-Exhibit-1.html

From the document, it's interesting how its reported that his father was employed for only several months with Greyhound as a driver, then moved to AZ and was able to purchase 2 gas stations. Apparently his son had the same knack for making big investments with money that comes out of nowhere. :thinking:

 

[Iona]

I hate them probably more than you do and I pursue them as terrorists.
No self respecting LE officer has ever given them the time of day, much less even read the nonsense. They are trained not to go there.

He has chosen to ignore or not take on board his responsibility to make a place feel reassured, to speak from his heart or even to assemble the few facts he has coherently.. there were gaps for the loonies because he left them.
Pressers days apart, on Friday evenings is a tactic of avoidance.

Too scanty info.. no new info.. hardly any info ever, none at all on who the shooter was or even a guess at his motivation...leaves a gaping chasm..
We're not children.

Every single mSM source had already published the correct dates and rationale.
We knew.

All we got is that a brain has been shipped off to a lab somewhere.. what was left of it, at any rate.. I dont even know why they released the initial report saying it was normal ... When was an autopsy report ever released organ by organ?
His brain couldn't have been normal as a bullet or two passed through it?

Great post!!!

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[Iona]

guess he didn't learn much from his Masters in CRISIS MANAGEMENT.

Lord! Get out of my mind! I was trying to decide if I heard that here or was it among the numerous info. I have been sorting through!!![emoji847]

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[Footwarrior]

Steven Paddock checked into the suite on the 28th. LE asked the hotel when SP checked into the suite and the hotel gave him the correct answer.

The fact that he had checked into another room in the hotel on the 25th wasn't known at the time. This isn't a coverup, it's just the normal process of an investigation. It takes time to collect all the details and sort them out.

 

[Iona]

He did address these items. Campos movements and timeline are verified on video, radio, cell phone call and human entry on security logs. He also said there was no second shooter. All reports from the public were checked out and they found no evidence of one.

As for ideology, the FBI agent said they are still investigating Paddock, his past, associations, timeline, etc.

The investigation will take time,as they all do - Miami Pulse, Columbine, Aurora Theater, etc. If they don't release more information after several months, the public should complain. Given the lawsuits being filed against Mandalay Bay/MGM, I'm not sure how that will affect public release of video, etc. Any attorneys care to weigh in on that?

JMO, if you want to see public frustration, take a look at the Rhoden Murders case. Eight family members killed in 4 different homes on the same night. 1 1/2 yrs later and no information has been released to the public, no arrests, no suspects, everything (including the homes of the deceased) locked up in a warehouse.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...e-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-30

No offense Betty P. , but <modsnip> That ( The Rhoden case) whole case needs to be wrapped up in duct tape and sent back in time for a do over...

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[kittythehare]

Steven Paddock checked into the suite on the 28th. LE asked the hotel when SP checked into the suite and the hotel gave him the correct answer.

The fact that he had checked into another room in the hotel on the 25th wasn't known at the time. This isn't a coverup, it's just the normal process of an investigation.

All of which we had known anyway..
he really just addressed his own prior inaccuracies, didn't he?

 

[Iona]

Special pleading. Stop moving the goalposts. We're talking about directly addressing conspiracy theories to combat misinformation, not if an item was brought up at all during the presser.

Edit to add: Let's revisit my comment, just for clarity:

In reference to that last part, the most telling part is that he only addressed conspiracy theories that directly impacted him and the perception of him and his force. Nothing about Campos. Nothing about ideology. Nothing about multiple shooters. Nothing about anything other than “We’re not incompetent and we aren’t covering anything up.”​

<modsnip>

Yes, m00, that is the whole ball of wax, he only defended himself, because he is PISSED at the way he is being portrayed!!!

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[enelram]

From the document, it's interesting how its reported that his father was employed for only several months with Greyhound as a driver, then moved to AZ and was able to purchase 2 gas stations. Apparently his son had the same knack for making big investments with money that comes out of nowhere. :thinking:

And also that the father when arrested for the bingo game/scam paid a $625,000 fine, served a few months and walked away a free man. Where did he come up with that kind of money for a cash fine?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

From the document, it's interesting how its reported that his father was employed for only several months with Greyhound as a driver, then moved to AZ and was able to purchase 2 gas stations. Apparently his son had the same knack for making big investments with money that comes out of nowhere. :thinking:

The money tends to come from the bank in the form of a business loan secured against the assets/property, at least when someone starts out.

The bank lends you $2.5m to buy and refurbish a run down appartment building, taking a charge over the property as security for the loan. That's $2m for the building and $500,000 for improvement works. You then sell it for $3.5m, repay the bank their $2.5m and you have a profit of $1m.