NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 9

[Fairy1]

I forgot to add - it was a pleasure to meet fasteddy4, Sin City and guitar3 today. I guess it's no surprise that we all gravitated to each other!

 

[laytonian]

I do have a question. Is there any problem with me posting pictures of the search area? Or items in the area? No pics of any bones though. And, any problem with posting any photos that may have members of the search party in them?

I don't think there's a BIT of a problem with pictures.

As far as members of the search party: as long as they gave your permission, it'd be good. I know some folks (like KCN) don't want to be identified. Some WSers may not want people to be playing "who's who" (ie, "who's smoking" - ha ha).

The EASIEST thing to do is to upload them to a website like google (it's easy to make a page, like I did on Google for the timeline)....and then put the link in your signature.

Pictures posted here are fleeting, unless people scroll through hundreds of posts.

In your sig file, they're always retrievable...AND, if it's your web page, you have control over the images!

JMO, of course

 

[laytonian]

Some have wondered why someone who lived in the area would leave Steven's car there. IMO, if they knew the cameras were there, they had no choice but to leave the car there. They couldn't risk being caught on camera accessing and moving Steven's car.

ETA: They probably weren't counting on Steven missing the street, parking where he did and walking back. Didn't a poster mention that Steven had a habit of doing this if he drove past where he needed to go?

Steven's friend gsmith mentioned that Steven had done that once.
I don't know if it was a habit.

BUT...if you made it as far as Savannah Springs Ave, you'd see that dead-end right in front of you, begging you to park right there.

 

[Fairy1]

Thanks, FastEddy -- you're a champ, as well as Fairy1, Sin City, and all the rest who volunteered and worked so hard.

Now that you've seen the area within the search boundaries, do you think a body could stay undiscovered out there, for four months?

Steven wasn't tiny. Could someone take him (dead or alive) "that far in" where he wouldn't be discovered for this long?

Would another search, with more people, perhaps be warranted?

BBM

I just want to put in my :twocents: on this question. There is access to this area from the north, east and west. If Steven's body was placed there, I feel it would be fairly close to those edges - particularly from the east or west, where a vehicle could go. It was difficult enough for me to traverse the terrain with just a little backpack - nevermind a body.

That being said, I did see what looked like tire tracks from a truck and another that looked like a motorcycle track a good distance in. I looked especially close in these areas for anything suspicious, because they were odd locations for tire tracks, IMO. Definitely not your typical 4-wheeling type of terrain.

 

[laytonian]

Laytonian's questions from above:
snipped: Now that you've seen the area within the search boundaries, do you think a body could stay undiscovered out there, for four months?

Steven wasn't tiny. Could someone take him (dead or alive) "that far in" where he wouldn't be discovered for this long?

Would another search, with more people, perhaps be warranted?

YES, to all three questions.

My second question, I didn't word very well. Could someone CARRY him that far off the dirt road? Is it flat, or hilly? Could you drag that kind of weight into a gully that you couldn't drive to?

(Jeez, I hate typing questions like that, but that's why there was a search)

 

[Sin City]

Laytonian, Thank you for the Google page info regarding posting pictures. I'll keep any pictures with people in them out of the google page.

Yikes...now to figure out how to create the google page for the pics. lol

 

[Fairy1]

My second question, I didn't word very well. Could someone CARRY him that far off the dirt road? Is it flat, or hilly? Could you drag that kind of weight into a gully that you couldn't drive to?

(Jeez, I hate typing questions like that, but that's why there was a search)

Ha! Guess I wasn't typing fast enough for you. It's rough terrain, to be sure. Very rocky. The pics I sent of the big rocks was on the east side, which runs parallel to a large culvert. Between the culvert and the rocks is a gravel road. This area was covered in BIG rocks and a lot of it was almost like a cliff from the desert above down to the road/culvert. I saw it as a likely place to put a body because of the road access, but it would have been difficult to get too far from the road.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[laytonian]

We did also have a good chat with Mrs. Koecher. She hadn't heard about the possible sighting at a homeless shelter. But she did say there may have been a possible sighting of Steven at a dental school somewhere in town. She got that from the LVMPD detective, who told her he was going to check it out. It's an interesting possibility.

I told her about what we've heard about Steven's unusual speech patterns and she confirmed that and described it as "halting." I also told her that sbbaker had just recently heard from someone who said they felt it was worse than usual. She wanted to know who that was and I told her I'd ask. sbbaker - if you have a name, perhaps Laytonian can get it to Deanne.

sbakker has the info; she may also be able to contact Deanne directly. I don't have a way of doing that, and believe that E should talk to Deanne directly.

Here's something we didn't know....apparently, Steven left that Christmas party his ward held VERY abruptly and after having been there just a short time. That info came from Deanne and she seemed concerned about it. But she pointed out that the next day was when he was out passing out flyers and when he helped the girls who were locked out. She doesn't seem to think it was depression, but I don't know if we should totally rule out something else.

WAIT JUST A MINUTE. WHAT Christmas party?

The day he helped the locked-out latchkey children, has ALWAYS been stated as Friday Dec 11th.

The ONLY ward Christmas party we've been able to confirm, is the one on Dec 7th - the day before Steven got paid. That's the party, from all indications, that's pictured on the FB page.

Remember, someone said there was a Christmas party on Dec 14th, then the 12th, at a Bishop's house, then it turned out to be PD's party. PD is in the Bishopric, but is not a Bishop. No one was able to tell us about another Christmas party.

GW was there and I did express my desire to go over and shake him until he spilled the beans. But my WS buddies didn't seem to think that would be a good idea. I didn't feel a civilized introduction was the right way to go either.

I think that was best.

I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to speak to gsmith - we just were never in the same area at the same time.

It was a large area to cover and yes, I can definitely see a body going undiscovered there, particularly if it was buried. But there was evidence of all the rain we've had and we've had wicked winds for a good part of the last couple weeks also. There is an ATV trail running pretty much through the area we were searching. There are also roadways to the east and west. I wasn't really sure how far we were from where Steven's car was found, but fasteddy4 said it was quite a distance for walking. It also struck me as an odd direction to go in on foot.

I've sent some pics of the area to Laytonian to post either here or on the timeline - whatever she feels is appropriate.

We were told there were 50 searchers just before we took off. If there were 70, others must have come later. The only reporter I saw was the dude from the SLC Tribune. But there was another guy there with serious camera equipment taking a lot of pics.

The terrain was very rough and wide. If the tip is truly credible, the area should be searched again, IMO. And I wish they would bring in cadaver dogs if it is believed Steven's remains are there.

I'm glad to have this PI on the case. He knows what he's doing and has strong ties to the LE community - including Detective McKay.

Thanks, everyone!

 

[Sin City]

My second question, I didn't word very well. Could someone CARRY him that far off the dirt road? Is it flat, or hilly? Could you drag that kind of weight into a gully that you couldn't drive to?

(Jeez, I hate typing questions like that, but that's why there was a search)

The area is quite flat. If one drove into the area via the dirt road it wouldn't take much to drag that kind of weight to the edge of the dirt road. There are a couple of gully/washes that are very close to the dirt road. There was evidence all around us and gathered in the washes to support the fact that heavy rains moved a lot of debris around.

Mind you, I could never carry or drag that sort of weight around, but a man could. IMO I cannot give a better description without being more graphic in regard to placing a body in the area.

 

[laytonian]

Ha! Guess I wasn't typing fast enough for you. It's rough terrain, to be sure. Very rocky. The pics I sent of the big rocks was on the east side, which runs parallel to a large culvert. Between the culvert and the rocks is a gravel road. This area was covered in BIG rocks and a lot of it was almost like a cliff from the desert above down to the road/culvert. I saw it as a likely place to put a body because of the road access, but it would have been difficult to get too far from the road.

I hope that makes sense.

In other words, one person would have to work really hard to put a body there. It just seems to me there's so many other, better areas - and if you're just dumping it ON the ground, you're really not hiding it. Some guy could come along with a trailer full of junk and dump it the next day.

Could you hide a body under any of the dumped stuff?
I'm assuming no mattresses, large pieces of carpet, disturbed ground.

 

[hollyblue]

Fairy1: Can you give us an idea of GW's demeanor today?
Was he talkative with others? Did he keep his distance? Quiet?

ETA: I am curious what the other information that the PI has is? Is it evidence or just knowledge or speculations?

 

[RubyRed]

Ward temple night-Dec9
Helped Children - Dec 11

So was there a Christmas Party Dec. 10 ? That he left abruptly from.

 

[hollyblue]

In other words, one person would have to work really hard to put a body there. It just seems to me there's so many other, better areas - and if you're just dumping it ON the ground, you're really not hiding it. Some guy could come along with a trailer full of junk and dump it the next day.

Could you hide a body under any of the dumped stuff?
I'm assuming no mattresses, large pieces of carpet, disturbed ground.

True. I don't think people realize (too much TV) how difficult it would be to move a lifeless body.
Think of a bag of cement (94lbs) and then double that for the weight of Steven and imagine trying to move it....over big rocks.
I hate even to type this, because it seems there is more and more of it lately, but burning a body is taking place all the time anymore.

 

[Fairy1]

sbakker has the info; she may also be able to contact Deanne directly. I don't have a way of doing that, and believe that E should talk to Deanne directly.



WAIT JUST A MINUTE. WHAT Christmas party?

The day he helped the locked-out latchkey children, has ALWAYS been stated as Friday Dec 11th.

The ONLY ward Christmas party we've been able to confirm, is the one on Dec 7th - the day before Steven got paid. That's the party, from all indications, that's pictured on the FB page.

Remember, someone said there was a Christmas party on Dec 14th, then the 12th, at a Bishop's house, then it turned out to be PD's party. PD is in the Bishopric, but is not a Bishop. No one was able to tell us about another Christmas party.




I think that was best.



Thanks, everyone!

I think Deanne was confused about the dates. I believe she was referring to the ward Christmas party and the discussion was in relation to someone asking her about Steven's mental health.

 

[Sin City]

In other words, one person would have to work really hard to put a body there. It just seems to me there's so many other, better areas - and if you're just dumping it ON the ground, you're really not hiding it. Some guy could come along with a trailer full of junk and dump it the next day.

Could you hide a body under any of the dumped stuff?
I'm assuming no mattresses, large pieces of carpet, disturbed ground.

There was a lot of debris in the area that could have been used to cover a body. Some folks were moving some of this debris around to look under it. There were piles of cement, construction trash, etc that could be used.

I spent a lot of time in the washes, and it was very sandy in these areas. If rains washed a body through one of these areas it could easily be covered by silt/sand.

Body dumps happen right off rural roads, as are bodies placed in shallow graves. I cannot even speculate in regard to what type we may have been searching for.

 

[guitar3]

I wanted to share my experience with the search today. Upon arriving at 7:15am there were approximately 15 people but by the time of the search and counting the leaders I think there were about 55 total.

As mentioned by Fasteddy, Fairy1, SinCity (btw...which was a pleasure to meet all of you) the terrain was rough, and i'm sure there will be another search that will need to be done. We were told to look for bones, articles of clothing in a pile or dragged, keys, cell phone, a notebook. new lose dirt, any suspicious piles of rocks. A few of the searchers did come across a few things. There were keys that were found, also lots of articles of clothing in a few places. In one area there was a pile of rocks that had smaller rocks meticulously piled on top of each other that is supposed to be investigaged further. There were some bones that were taken to the coroners office immediately, but in my opinion does any of this have to do with Steven's disappearance? I don't think so, unfortunately. I was told by a employee from the airport that there are cell towers at the north and south ends of the area we were searching, perhaps this is where the last ping came from? IDK? But would sure like to know who this credible source is?

We were thanked by the family numerous times for our efforts and they were very nice people. I just wish we had some type of closure for them today.

Still I don't understand if we were looking for human reamains today why was law enforcement present but not envolved in the search???

 

[laytonian]

Ward temple night-Dec9
Helped Children - Dec 11

So was there a Christmas Party Dec. 10 ? That he left abruptly from.

Impossible. He can't have been two places at once.

Taco Time, Nephi, Utah. 7:24pm, Dec 10th

That's 222 miles from St George, Utah.

Remember, that information came from the family.

 

[laytonian]

Still I don't understand if we were looking for human reamains today why was law enforcement present but not envolved in the search???

It's simple: the law enforcement jurisdiction over that area, believes that Steven just walked away.

They (basically) told the family if they wanted to investigate something else, they'd have to get a PI -- and they recommended one to them. The man working so hard with you today.

Thanks for your account of the search. If there's another one, I hope to be able to participate.

 

[RubyRed]

I wanted to share my experience with the search today. Upon arriving at 7:15am there were approximately 15 people but by the time of the search and counting the leaders I think there were about 55 total.

As mentioned by Fasteddy, Fairy1, SinCity (btw...which was a pleasure to meet all of you) the terrain was rough, and i'm sure there will be another search that will need to be done. We were told to look for bones, articles of clothing in a pile or dragged, keys, cell phone, a notebook. new lose dirt, any suspicious piles of rocks. A few of the searchers did come across a few things. There were keys that were found, also lots of articles of clothing in a few places. In one area there was a pile of rocks that had smaller rocks meticulously piled on top of each other that is supposed to be investigaged further. There were some bones that were taken to the coroners office immediately, but in my opinion does any of this have to do with Steven's disappearance? I don't think so, unfortunately. I was told by a employee from the airport that there are cell towers at the north and south ends of the area we were searching, perhaps this is where the last ping came from? IDK? But would sure like to know who this credible source is?

We were thanked by the family numerous times for our efforts and they were very nice people. I just wish we had some type of closure for them today.

Still I don't understand if we were looking for human reamains today why was law enforcement present but not envolved in the search???

bbm

It is obvious this isn't a suicide. I'm curious about the tip.

 

[laytonian]

I think Deanne was confused about the dates. I believe she was referring to the ward Christmas party and the discussion was in relation to someone asking her about Steven's mental health.

Thanks. I think she's got a lot to worry about, without the miniscule details that we've kept track of ... for a purpose.