NY - Captured, escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #9

[human]

Thanks to MinnesotaMary for this from thread #8 post #157

The Border Patrol agent who shot and killed a fugitive convicted of murder in upstate New York is stationed in El Paso and is a member of an elite squad headquartered at Fort Bliss, officials said Saturday.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_28395986/border-patrol-agent-who-shot-and-killed-new


It is my opinion that it didn't matter what matt was doing this fellow was brought in to shot to kill, (jmo) not for a leg shot. jmo idk

They don't go for a leg shot because the perp could still fire a gun.

I think of the old show Baretta. " If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."

There is no surprise to criminals that if they escape, they will be hunted down.

There is no question whether or not these were dangerous criminals. The police protected everyone. As they say, " Game over." They can give Sweat that Post It note.

 

[Hope4More]

Thanks to MinnesotaMary for this from thread #8 post #157

The Border Patrol agent who shot and killed a fugitive convicted of murder in upstate New York is stationed in El Paso and is a member of an elite squad headquartered at Fort Bliss, officials said Saturday.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_28395986/border-patrol-agent-who-shot-and-killed-new


It is my opinion that it didn't matter what matt was doing this fellow was brought in to shot to kill, (jmo) not for a leg shot. jmo idk

OK. This is why I kept saying it mattered it wasn't regular NY LE who killed Matt. Nobody called in sharpshooter Border Patrol agents to kill Matt that very day. ANY LEO would have shot to kill Matt in that situation. He was armed, FGS! He didn't lay his shotgun down and say whoops. He held onto his gun and didn't surrender when ordered to by LEO's.

Any on the spot, rational assessment by LE would be that Matt had no intention of being taken alive, and that his history made it more it more likely than not he would have loved nothing more than to take down some LEO's with him. Yes, it mattered what Mat was doing. That's why he's dead.

 

[st. crispian]

They don't go for a leg shot because the perp could still fire a gun.

I think of the old show Baretta. " If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."

There is no surprise to criminals that if they escape, they will be hunted down.

There is no question whether or not these were dangerous criminals. The police protected everyone. As they say, " Game over." They can give Sweat that Post It note.

The hired assassin who blew Matt's head to bits, could easily have shot the gun out of his drunken hands, and then shot him non-fatally. He was supposedly a crack shot. Like the local LE guy did with Sweat.

 

[corundogs]

The hired assassin who blew Matt's head to bits, could easily have shot the gun out of his drunken hands, and then shot him non-fatally. He was supposedly a crack shot. Like the local LE guy did with Sweat.

Police do not shot to disarm. Or shot to injure. So if you don't comply with LEO demands, it is very likely you will be shot dead. Matt didn't, so he was shot dead. Why are you so offended by this?

 

[Traymar]

The hired assassin who blew Matt's head to bits, could easily have shot the gun out of his drunken hands, and then shot him non-fatally. He was supposedly a crack shot. Like the local LE guy did with Sweat.

Respectfully, we do not know how it happened, nor whether the officer "could easily have shot the gun out of his drunken hands," etc. It's interesting to speculate, but we don't know all the facts.

Furthermore, it occurs to me that truth inherently possesses the capacity to stand on its own; no need to fortify it with loaded descriptors, as it were.

JMO, of course, and I do appreciate your robust analysis. It's always good to have our ideas and notions challenged.

 

[i2amanana]

Is there a thread to follow on information on the CO and the 3 administrators put on paid adminstrative leave?

 

[mrsobrien]

Police do not shot to disarm. Or shot to injure. So if you don't comply with LEO demands, it is very likely you will be shot dead. Matt didn't, so he was shot dead. Why are you so offended by this?

I am offended by this on a human level. If you have the skills to diffuse a dangerous situation without taking another's life...why not?

Like I said previously, I don't care about the criminals' comfort, but I'm weary of our paramilitary police force killing when it can be avoided. We can do better, imo.

 

[Dr. Watson]

I am quite intrigued about the statement that Matt tried to carjack the guy in the camper. Yes he was drunk, and yes he knew there were police everywhere. But, i digress, both of these guys had been in prison for murder for life, there was no question about it. Both of them had over ten years in jail to think about what they had done, and that they were cold blooded murderers. The biggest fear from the public was they were going to kill a civilian, or worse, keep hostages and murder them, hijack a car etc. But the truth is they didn't, they wanted to go to Mexico, Trumps favorite country.

There might have been some rehabilitation here, just some. They could have murdered and escaped, or committed an armed robbery, something violent. But nothing happened. If Tilly would have gone they might have murdered her, but that plan fell through.
Their back up plan was terrible for two escapees with an EIGHT HOUR LEAD, and a genius escape. They really had no chance for real survival with no money or transportation alternatives. And no one on the outside helped them as was speculated here many times. Maybe in some small way, the system did work after all. JMO

Allegedly Matt tried to kill the man driving the camper that had the bullet hole in it.

If S&M killed anyone - they'd have been busted immediately. Then they would have been caught
and sent right back to prison. Breathing in the night air, even with mosquitoes, black flies, ticks
and red ants crawling all over you was a million times better than being in prison.
They weren't going to do anything to blow that freedom
But - if they did make it out of that dragnet and escaped....it was only a matter of time
until each one of them killed again - especially that Matt convict. You can put all your
IRA money on that one.

 

[popsicle]

[h=1]Prisoners that shared honor block with Sweat and Matt complain about abuse since escape[/h]Murtagh has received more than a dozen complaints from inmates in the last few weeks. At least one prisoner said he was beaten while being questioned about the escape.

http://wnyt.com/article/stories/s3841170.shtml?cat=10114&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

That's not right. imo

 

[popsicle]

I am offended by this on a human level. If you have the skills to diffuse a dangerous situation without taking another's life...why not?

Like I said previously, I don't care about the criminals' comfort, but I'm weary of our paramilitary police force killing when it can be avoided. We can do better, imo.

They shoot to kill because they may not get a second chance and they are aiming for the largest target which is center mass. That means usually your heart/lungs/chest area. jmo

 

[andalso]

The hired assassin who blew Matt's head to bits, could easily have shot the gun out of his drunken hands, and then shot him non-fatally. He was supposedly a crack shot. Like the local LE guy did with Sweat.

OR...Matt could have surrendered!!
OR ... Matt could have followed LE instructions to put his hands up.
OR ... Matt could have not murdered and dismembered people in the first place.
In my opinion, the fact that Matt was shot dead is squarely on Matt's shoulders. Matt had options to avoid all of this, and he did not choose those options.

 

[andalso]

Right. They were both bad apples. No doubt. But as far as I know, Matt was spared the death penalty.

And I do not believe they were out to kill anyone. The reason no one was hurt physically was NOT because LE did such a great job. No one was hurt physically BECAUSE M&S DID NOT CHOOSE TO KILL ANYONE. I would feel much better if both were back in prison for rest of their lives. That's punishment enough. Killing Matt just serves the blood lust that so many fine people have.

BBM:
New York State does not have the death penalty!

 

[MinnesotaMary]

This was an ongoing police hunt in terribly dense woods - danger to the officers everywhere, including 'look up' - tree stands, or even plain old climbing some tree to hide as a possibility. IMO, those police had detailed orders from their Commander on 'what to do'. Just like if you have ever watched 'Cops', Command directs car chases - whether or not to begin one, stop now?, such decisions are able to be made with some thoughtfulness and some detachment from being right in the action (stirred with adrenaline, fear, 'fight or flight' primitive emotions, rage, say 'you killed my fellow officer'. Remember the officer who caught Frein talked about the latter. feeling being inside of him at the time.

IMO, for the prison escape, the Command said ONLY IF you ARE ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE you will be safe can you take either of them alive. Remember, for all the officer knew, Matt was 'faking' his coughs', perhaps looked to be 'feigning' illness or drunkenness and actually was poised to 'take out' whatever officers got near him. And, as to Sweat, he was shot 2X in the back - if you look at the pic' of his without his shirt (he has the O2 mask on...), it sure looks to me like an exit wound from one of the shots, and sure looks to me like that officer who shot Matt WAS clearly shooting to kill, NOT wound, and the bullets, at least the one for which we can see the exit wound, missed Sweat's heart by just a tinch.
-
IMO: Palmer belongs LOCKED UP, not roaming around out on bond wearing his funeral suit. IMO: Warden has to be sacked - quit with this 'on leave with pay' baloney ASAP. Very, very creepy to me that those prison workers were unionized - for instance, did you read about how the union OPPOSED the guards going through the metal detector & xray (whatever...) as they came to work and left????????? OUTRAGEOUS Palmer trots out with a huge manilla envelope carrying A BIG PAINTING OR TWO!!! marked 'NAACP' ------ tells you so very much about how super duper crooked to the core Palmer is (see, any 'innocent' worker who noticed that envelope was to think, 'Oh Saint Palmer is going to get something important to the local branch of the NAACP in his free time -------- wow, what a wonderful, caring prison guard he is!!' EUWWWWW - literally makes me nauseous as to how sicko and creepy-to-the-core Palmer is.

 

[MinnesotaMary]

NEWS - WINTER-KING-FEST-CLINTON-WARDEN GIVEN THE BOOT !!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tely-attempt-plug-prison-s-security-gaps.html


S'pose it's a start, but I am outraged that Palmer is out loose - so wrong IMO. Corrupt to the core, that one IMO.

 

[Caffeine]

No LE of any sort is trained to do anything less than shoot to kill. Maiming a suspect is simply giving them another chance to kill.

Matt was holding a shotgun and refused to comply of course he's gonna get shot. He's a murderer and an escapee.

Same with Sweat. If that officer didn't shoot he would have likely made it to Canada, which would have bought him some extra time to cause trouble in a desperate bid for freedom.

Both officers did the right thing. The only reason Sweat didn't end up in a bodybag is likely due to the distance he put on the cop as he fled, and the prompt medical care he got.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sweat was 30+ yards ahead of the cop. He probably didn't waste any time trying to escape when he saw that state trooper.



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[cady]

OT Trump's immigrant german grandfather's name was Drumpf....Sorry, for OT, just snickering. JMO

 

[Hatfield]

Instead of killing Tillie, I wonder if the two convicts would have kept her alive to use her as a bargaining chip if they were caught while still in the states.

Thats a great theory. They would have had an automatic hostage any time they wanted to turn the switch.

When she picks them up they are all friends and anytime they want to throw the switch they could.

-During the ride away from prison, if she wants to bail and be dropped off, throw the hostage switch

-If they get pulled over by LE then throw hostage switch

-If they are in a motel and get surrounded by LE then throw hostage switch

 

[Elley Mae]

The hired assassin who blew Matt's head to bits, could easily have shot the gun out of his drunken hands, and then shot him non-fatally. He was supposedly a crack shot. Like the local LE guy did with Sweat.

CBP Statement on the Agent Involved Shooting near Malone, New York


http://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/speeche...statement-agent-involved-shooting-near-malone

One of the agents came up on an individual who was lying down behind a fallen tree. Agents verbally ordered the individual to put his hands up. An agent observed the individual fail to comply with the verbal commands and aim what was determined to be a 20-gauge shotgun at him. The agent discharged his service-issued M-4, striking the individual, who died at the scene.

 

[Elley Mae]

I am waiting to see the gun, and would love to see it given back to the owner, if it does exist. jmo idk

 

[BUF]

They never mentioned if Matt & Sweat had any money on them (the supposed drug ring that they may have been involved in?) which I doubt they found any if at all on these two. Surely they have checked Tillie's bank accounts to see if she made some large withdrawals to fund this escape.