Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 7

[Foxfire]

Her case is another heartbreaking case. Really aren't they all....

But I thought of hers the other day...it is so sad...no COD...and no arrest:banghead:

Yes,:banghead: terracotta, they are all heartbreaking and as Karen's murder, Jennifer's case is now in the hands of the prosecutor, imo..

Karen's remains were located on 12/10/2011 by the cemetery caretaker the day after a full lunar eclipse..

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157601&page=33

Originally Posted by Foxfire 07/2012
Karen Swift; who vanished after a Halloween party on the early morning hours on 10/31/2011..

Her Human Remains Found Dec 10 2011, in the Historic Bledsoe Cemetery(1840). The cemetery has 3 large iron crosses that can be seen for miles. Her remains were located near these crosses.
Has the makings of a Southern Gothic Horror movie, yet a tragedy for her family & the Dyer County, TN community.

There has been total silence & missinformation in that case too. The promise of an arrest by Dyer Co Tn Sheriff Jeff Box was made months ago..

http://www.stategazette.com/topic/karenswift/ Timeline

 

[Pob]

Thanks - but how would you know to go looking for missing people? Was there a MSM article in the UK about Jen?

I logged into Touch, there was a player left a message saying she was missing. They live in upstate NY too and I think it was on the news there by then.

 

[sleepinoz]

I logged into Touch, there was a player left a message saying she was missing. They live in upstate NY too and I think it was on the news there by then.

Makes sense definately by the 21st - thanks Pob.

 

[sleepinoz]

Did she ever talk about her life in general - husband, friends etc., or was it just the kids?

 

[Pob]

Did she ever talk about her life in general - husband, friends etc., or was it just the kids?

Nearly always the children. GR hardly got a mention except he worked for IBM and ran marathons, I was surprised to hear he worked from home tbh, it seemed like to me (MOO) he was away from the family a lot. Friends don't get much time on chat on those games.

 

[Abigail]

Agian, we get this info from GR alone. If she had lost a lot of wieght the rings may not have fit. There are no pictures i have found that show her hands so there is no way of telling. I know i go without my ring when it bothers my hand, which is quite often. The fact that they were in her jewlery box suggests she was just storing them, if she was that unhappy she may have discarded them or not safely stored them.

I agree, I think there could be innocent reasons why the rings were in the box, as well as nefarious ones.

I went for a couple years not wearing my rings because I had gained weight, and they were quite tight. Then I lost the weight, and was wearing them again. But then I was hopping out of the golf cart one day, and my engagement ring caught on a bolt on the front and bent it. I ran inside and soaped up and got both rings off quickly before my finger swelled up. So, then I went another couple months without my rings, while waiting for the bruising and swelling to go down. Then, the engagement ring was too bent to put back on, so I just wore the wedding band; kept meaning to go down the the jewelers to get the other ring fixed. Then one day I had my youngest out at the play ground and was pushing him in the swing, and this hook on the bottom of the swing caught on my wedding band and pulled me right underneath the swing!! My finger swelled up, and I couldn't get the ring off!! So I had to call my husband to come with the bolt cutters, but of course he was on the other end of the county, so I called my sister, and she took me down to the jewelers, and they got it cut off. So, that was a few months before Christmas, and it was also our 25th wedding anniversary, so my husband and I decided to have our rings redone as Christmas presents to each other (actually, I traded my 2 rings in for a new one). So, now I'm wearing my new ring (I had 3 diamonds put in -- one for each child), but once again, I lost weight, and the ring is getting too big.

Anyway, just wanted to point out there's lots of reasons a woman could not be wearing her rings that have nothing to do with the state of the marriage.

 

[voominvava]

Absolutely, she would log on and off throughout the day, it certainly wasn't consecutively. I'm sorry if it came across as trying to say she was a bad mother, I think she adored her children and her first thought was always them.
I do think the online gaming is a seed planted to make people look at this in more detail than other things, JMO.

BBM: Pob, I'm sorry too .. I wasn't insinuating that it was you who was saying that at all.

 

[sleepinoz]

Nearly always the children. GR hardly got a mention except he worked for IBM and ran marathons, I was surprised to hear he worked from home tbh, it seemed like to me (MOO) he was away from the family a lot. Friends don't get much time on chat on those games.

lol - I know but I thought I'd ask. Any info is good.

Away alot, don't think I've heard that before.

 

[Pob]

lol - I know but I thought I'd ask. Any info is good.

Away alot, don't think I've heard that before.

And the photos she posted on Touch, mostly her and the kids. GR not on any I remember, the photos she posted are the things I can't find there anymore.

 

[sleepinoz]

And the photos she posted on Touch, mostly her and the kids. GR not on any I remember, the photos she posted are the things I can't find there anymore.

He removed most of the photo's from her FB, especially those with the children in them, so I imagine that he has done the same on any of her personal accounts, and that would include Touch.

 

[voominvava]

He removed most of the photo's from her FB, especially those with the children in them, so I imagine that he has done the same on any of her personal accounts, and that would include Touch.

First of all, it just makes me so angry :furious: that he tampered with her personal accounts .. and then it makes me suspicious .. and then angry again that it doesn't seem like it made LE suspicious.

I am sure he deleted quite a bit of her online (phone or elsewhere) presence.

 

[nursebeeme]

folks: do NOT discuss other posters. Please and thank you.

 

[Abigail]

Maybe she was naked because she was killed in the shower/bath tub. Easy clean-up if clean up is even necessary with no visible trauma.

Yes, excellent point. Easy cleanup of blood (if there were any) as well as any bodily fluids released after death. We don't know COD yet, but "no visible trauma" brings to my mind perhaps suffocation, drowning, or drugging. Perhaps he drugged her morning coffee then drowned her in the tub. If that's the case, it will make prosecution easier -- the autopsy will show water in her lungs, which would point to the murder happening at home. In fact, if they have well water out there on Sheff road (does anyone have that info???), they could even trace the water in her lungs back to the home.

On the other hand, she was probably lying out in the elements for about a week before the colder weather and snow came in (which would then have preserved her pretty well until she was found). During that week, the weather was in the 40's, so not a lot of decomp, but maybe some -- maybe enough to obscure bruising.

So, perhaps "no visible trauma" might mean nothing blatantly obvious like a gunshot wound or stabbing. But it might not necessarily preclude blunt force trauma.

Blood was found in the van. We don't know how much or where. If I were going to be moving a body, I would wrap it up in something like a shower curtain or tarp and then duct tape it to prevent blood (if any) or bodily fluids from leaking out, and also to hide the body. (I wonder if LE could check on the purchase of something like a tarp or shower curtain in the weeks before she disappeared?)

If there were something wrapped around her body on the way to Center Road, then that had to be discarded somewhere. Most likely on the route between Center Road and Plank Road Manor. If I were LE I'd be checking along that route with cadaver dogs, and checking out ponds and streams that run close to the road.

Another thing, Jennifer was reported to go missing wearing a blue and purple top and I think jeans. Has LE checked with other family and friends to see if she actually owned a blue and purple top? Has anyone checked her closet to see if it's still hanging up in there? Or checked with recent donations to Goodwill? Look for it along with the tarp/shower curtain.

 

[Sharoneonta]

Is there a dumpster at Plank Road Manor? Hopefully that was checked and not dumped before the van was found. If the pick up schedule was not figured out and taken advantage of...

 

[Abigail]

Can anyone confirm what GR was wearing on 12/11? What he actually had on that day -- other than was not proper for the weather conditions? Did anyone see him come into the Y? What was his demeanor other than being chilled? You would think cameras would be there at least and can show what he had on. Maybe those clothes need to be located and tested... Theorizing if he had to move Jen somewhere, there should be some tell-tale signs on his clothing and/or shoes. We can't get an answer on Jen's shoes -- but what about his?

Oh Wow!! Good thought, Bob's Chicken!! (BTW, is it in the news somewhere that he was wearing something not proper for weather conditions??)

Yes, there would definitely be mud on his shoes if he was on the edge of Center Road. Probably a lot of mud on his shoes and ankles, since there was a lot on the van (I wonder if the van got stuck in the mud?? That would be pretty funny -- getting your vehicle stuck in the mud when trying to do a body dump). If he had run from Sheff Road to the Y, I think all those roads are paved-- there might be some mud on the bottom and sides of his shoes if he had run on the side of the roads where there aren't sidewalks. But there'd be a lot more if he been sloshing around on Center Road.

I'm not sure what's meant by clothing not suitable for weather. It wasn't especially cold (in 40's I believe) that day, although a bit rainy. However, he had supposedly (I think) run from home to the Y (else, how did he get there?). In that case, he should have been wearing his running shoes, running shorts and a t-shirt.

 

[Abigail]

Being excessively cold could explain a "shaky" demeanor at the Y.

Just a random thought.

I'm starting to wonder if GR was the accessory, helping someone else clean up after their crime of passion. Not sure if I'm allowed to say that, mod-slap if necessary.

That thought has occurred to me as well, but if that's the case, I don't think it would have been a crime of passion but rather premeditated. In fact, a lot about this smacks of premeditated, carefully planned out crime.

But I do think that more than one person could be involved.

 

[Sharoneonta]

I'm still confused about running and getting cold, this has never been my experience. Maybe at the very start but certainly not at the end.

JMO.

 

[Abigail]

I was able to visit the site yesterday without a deputy sitting there.
The bank was 6 maybe 7' down and very steep. Semi wooded but fairly open.
It appears to be somewhat of a dumping site for those to cheap to pay tipping fees as we could see a large blue plastic tub all busted up just a few feet away.
A body could have been easily rolled off the road quickly here with minimal effort.
If no one paid any attention I suppose it could have gone unnoticed for a while.
It also appeared to be no heavy equipment activity at the site. There way a small pile of snow approximately 1cy in size neatly piled in the shape of a cone. Only about 600sf of the site had been disturbed by foot traffic.

Thanks for the info, Fox. How much snow is still on the ground in that area?

 

[momrids6]

Is there a dumpster at Plank Road Manor? Hopefully that was checked and not dumped before the van was found. If the pick up schedule was not figured out and taken advantage of...

well, it certainly won't be the first time a landfill was searched for evidence if they missed the full dumpster...

 

[Abigail]

It could worked several ways.

1- A hastily made decision to dump a body there without thinking because it's in the open and someone will eventually see the remains as it's so open.

2- Someone wanted the body to eventually be found. How soon???

There are so many better places to dump a body in Chenango Co it's scary.
Miles of seasonal roads, DEC truck trails, camp roads, little used town roads, swamps, ponds, heavy wooded spruce areas, thorn apple thickets.....

I think it's likely the perp wanted the body to be found. My chief suspect would have wanted fairly quick closure to be able to claim life insurance and get remarried.