NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #1

[OldSteve]

Yes, I thought of the perp maybe trying to hide DNA byattempting to burn Vanessa's body. The hands especially under the nails, probably had DNA evidence. But her head and feet?

MOO, I don't think her killer was a random stranger. Don't know the details of how he tried to accomplish burning her, but the killer sounds more prepared in this attack. I feel he might have known Vanessa or her family in the area.

In Vanessa's case http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...c-google-employee-dead-mass-article-1.2742909

Would think LE with coroner would be able to tell if the two crimes are related, one of the reasons they hold back on telling all the details...

 

[marble]

A few thoughts:

as I mentioned in Vanessa's thread, as unlikely as it seems these two murders are connected (and I don't think they are, but anything is possible) it is definitely weird that both brutal attacks happened during daylight to two young women who share so many similarities. Apart from having a similar "look" and a social media presence, they also posted a fair amount of images that strike me as being highly aspirational for people without their same financial privilege- apart from being pretty both women appear "sleek" and well-groomed in their social media, which is a certain type of class marker, in addition to both posting photos of adventure vacations. That makes me give a little more weight to a stalker theory, although the least complicated explanation is that both met up with random attackers by chance.

As an aside- on this site (and in MSM and society in general) we're bombarded with sensational, horrific cases. The world at large is not as dangerous and horrific a place as it would seem if one spends a lot of time here and watching the news. Sensationalism sells, and people in general are rarely victims of serial killers or other random murderers.

Being a woman under 60 out alone on a jog who is attacked by a stranger is pretty low on the list of causes of premature death in this country. Like, lower than being a a woman under 60 driving to the gym to run on the treadmill and getting in a car crash because she's been told to never jog alone. imo.

It's still highly unlikely that any woman who run by themselves, especially in the middle of the day, are going to become murder victims. Sure, it's good to be aware of one's surroundings and listen to one's instincts (and I'm in favor of *nobody*, male or female, wearing earphones when exercising outdoors- imo it's dangerous to block out one's surroundings, especially when running near traffic, but we all make the choices for our own individual risk tolerance in order to live happy, fulfilling lives)- but victim blaming or telling women they shouldn't be able to move about the world freely as autonomous beings is *not* a good solution imo. Not everyone has or wants to have a chaperone attached to their hip at all times, and expecting woman to do so places an unfair burden on them and curtails their ability to be fully human and have equal rights out in the world at large. imo. Women are told their whole lives to be constantly on high alert every waking moment and unless they want to become limited, house-bound agoraphobics, a lot of the time they aren't going to be making the choice that's "perfectly protected" in a society that tells them that's how they have to be in order to be safe and "responsible". Eff That Noise.

Also- yeah, all those legions of untested rape kits are probably a bigger contributor to women out running alone being at risk then, you know, them out being alone. Last I heard they were starting to work through the backlog but I haven't followed up recently to see where they were in the process now. According to FBI stats, a small percentage of rapists are responsible for the majority of rapes- in other words, a huge amount of reported rapes are carried out by serial rapists with multiple victims. Being able to match rape case DNA to a even a handful of rapists could result in a huge decrease in future assault statistics. (Not to mention, some serial rapists escalate to murder).

 

[chrissybk]

Answering someone's question from earlier, having trouble finding the comment. Someone asked how many runners or bikers would frequent the area where karina and her dad went running. My honest answer is I have no idea. The path along the belt parkway has some activity with bikers, runners and walkers but the weeds are not somewhere I would venture into and most people I know wouldn't either.. My brother and sister in law got into a big argument a few months ago because she took a walk and went close to the area. My brother was pissed with her because he felt that she should know better than to walk by herself in that area because it's so secluded and isolated. I know so many people are saying that they don't go into the weeds but I am sure there were some people like karina and her father who may have enjoyed running in a secluded area.

 

[Theforeigner]

Fo, you think it's the same killer? you said you thought he stalked the victims over social media....but locations are pretty far apart! I'll admit they do look similar in the photos you posted I was wrong about that. The police said transient but don't most transients probably have a criminal record? Why dump the used condom right there in the weeds...if it is? IF it was someone who planned and watched and then attacked why drop the condom? I do kind of think it might be someone like a neighbor who knows her

HI LindsayLohan

The two victims KV and VM lived not far apart, KV in Queens and VM in New York City (VM vas just visiting her mother in Princeton, Massachusetts when she was murdered, only 2-3 hours drive from NY city) and we don't know yet where in New York City VM lived, she could, for all we know, have lived close to KV, and/or who knows if they had some social circles in common where the killer might be a part, at least in the periphery?

IF the killer is the same man in both murders, then I believe he is the kind of killer I suspect, a psychopathic sexual predator, whom in high speed is evolving into a serial killer and who sees his killings as a deadly "game", a "project" an "artwork".
And if that is the case I think it is not unlikely that he stalked her and eventually followed VM to Princeton, he might have gotten info about he trip to Princeton from her social media.

Here s a copy of a post I posted a couple of hours ago that show how much thise two victims have in common, could that really be a coincident?
yes of course it can, but it's not very likely IMHO:

Karina Vetrano and Vanessa Marcotte have a LOT in common IMO:


Both KV and VM have:
Long brown hair
Brown eyes
atletic bodies
seem to be petite (anyone knows their weight and hight?)
Italian names

Both KV and VM are:
Out jogging when murdered
Murdered within same week, Tuesday and Sunday
Murdered in broad daylight, in the afternoon
Murder scene ca 1/2 a mile from their parents homes
Left residential areas to jogg and bodies found in nature area
Both raped (link added concerning VM)
Live in ca. same area Queens and NY City
Are ca. same age 30 and 27
Stunning beauties.
Sucessfull young woman
atletic girls

 

[LindsayLohan6]

wonder if they ever had a follower in common on instagram? Or if they both used the happn app

 

[Theforeigner]

I don't think it's unreasonable to compare the murders of these two women, both by nature of the crime and similarities between the victims, and wonder if they were killed by the same person. All that's been said is there's nothing at this point connecting the crimes, which is another of way of saying that so little is known about both crimes currently that no connection can be made ( and conversely ruled out).

Time will tell, and if the DNA on the victims is different, then that answers that question. In the meantime, it's plausible that the perpetrator of Karina's murder would travel around, particularly if he's "transient", and since he's wanting to avoid capture. If so, this type of killer would not be the first to hunt for prey across geography.

Whoever did either crime is a danger to any community and I hope something surfaces quickly in both cases to lead LE to the killer(s).

Also, Karina's murder doesn't seem particularly unsophisticated to me (I think I saw that someone in LE made this remark). Narcissists and sociopaths/psychopaths often don't really care what they leave behind, and in fact, often display or leave the body in a place where it will be found because they like the theater and further humiliation of their victim by exposing the things they did to her. These are individuals who think they're smarter and more entitled than the rest of us, and they seriously don't mind running risks, or even perceive risks. It can be either a case of hurry and get done what they want to do to their target and so what if they scatter evidence, or, 'look at what I did, now come and find me'. And all manner of other lunatic thought. JMO

EXACTLY !!! I couldn't agree more.

 

[Theforeigner]

Yes, I thought of the perp maybe trying to hide DNA byattempting to burn Vanessa's body. The hands especially under the nails, probably had DNA evidence. But her head and feet?

MOO, I don't think her killer was a random stranger. Don't know the details of how he tried to accomplish burning her, but the killer sounds more prepared in this attack. I feel he might have known Vanessa or her family in the area.

In Vanessa's case http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...c-google-employee-dead-mass-article-1.2742909

Possible reasons for the killer to burn her head and feet:
He might be a foot fetishist and have sexually assaulted her feet, and therefore wanted to burn DNA on her feet
He might have kissed and/or bit her face, and/or orally sexually assaulted her and therefore wanted to burn DNA on her face.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

Fo I didn't realize she lived in NY. you know I am not an excluder if you know me at all lol. It would be complicated for the killer to follow her home, if she lives in Manhattan she might not own a car there. It's possible a stranger could have seen her post that she was going home for the weekend, but it sounds more like a coworker or someone she knew who heard her say she was going home (IF the killer lives in NY)

 

[Theforeigner]

If it turnes out that polise have DNA from both KV and VM murders, and it is a match then they should raise the reward to at least 100.000$
because then they have a worst case senario serial killer on their hands, a new Ted Bundy UGH !!!

 

[Lawdini01234]

Was watching live feed on Facebook, Jay Dow (from pix11?) from the civic meeting which abruptly ended when the speaker started to mention the NYPD investigators giving an update. I'm inclined to think no update was given at this time 😕 Really hoping they are able to get this DNA match!!!

 

[Momoffourboys]

Murdered Jogger Cases in Queens, Princeton, Michigan: Are There Similarities?

http://heavy.com/news/2016/08/vanes...eton-new-york-massachusetts-michigan-jogging/

 

[Tssiemer]

Just wanted to drop this here.

MI - Alexandra Brueger, 31, shot while jogging, 30 July 2016

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...7&share_tid=313877&share_fid=730&share_type=t


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sweetdreams]

I think it's someone who lived nearby that would watch her everyday and knew her routine. When he saw her dad wasn't with her he saw his opportunity and attacked her. Its someone that could slip in and out of the weeds unnoticed. The perp doesn't live far. They would have to get cleaned up after an attack like this so if they had traveled far someone would have noticed and reported it.

I have thought that from the very beginning. I don't think this is a person who grew up in the community. I'm thinking someone fairly new to the area but living there long enough to know Karina's routine. Maybe a person newly living with a friend or relative and someone with time on their hands...unemployed. I certainly don't think this was the action of a homeless person. Even with all the other theories mentioned, this one I cannot shake out of my mind. IMO

 

[Curious Me]

It would matter if someone newer to the area had noticed her before or if this was really just one of those random spur of the moment crimes. Questions I have that maybe someone knows:

- Karina was in Nice, France around the time of the Bastille Day attack of July 13th. She returned soon after. How long was she away on this vacation?

- She went running often with her father, but he didn't go with her the night she was killed because he had injured his back. Did she always run only in that area like clockwork? Had her father gone running with her steady in the two weeks since her return from vacation? When was the last time he went out running with her?

 

[Inthedetails]

Reading the coverage of the community meeting held tonight, Aug 8, there isn't too much new information, but wanted to share the link so we have it.

A couple of things did stand out:

* Regarding the murdered jogger case in Massachusetts (Vanessa):
'We don’t believe there’s a connection,” Kemper said. 'With that said, we are going to continue to share notes and compare evidence as both cases progress.'"

* Regarding catching the perp who killed Karina:
"He said police have not come up with any suspects yet, which begged many people to ask, are we safe?

'Certainly I would recommend using caution,' Kemper said."

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/08/queens-jogger-killed-community-meeting/

 

[Inthedetails]

Reading the coverage of the community meeting held tonight, Aug 8, there isn't too much new information, but wanted to share the link so we have it.

A couple of things did stand out:

* Regarding the murdered jogger case in Massachusetts (Vanessa):
'We don’t believe there’s a connection,” Kemper said. 'With that said, we are going to continue to share notes and compare evidence as both cases progress.'"

* Regarding catching the perp who killed Karina:
"He said police have not come up with any suspects yet, which begged many people to ask, are we safe?

'Certainly I would recommend using caution,' Kemper said."

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/08/queens-jogger-killed-community-meeting/

And here's a bit more from another news-source:

"Police were careful about releasing information.

So far, there is no suspect or person of interest in the case.

Also, the evidence is pointing to one attacker, but that could change.

'I am not going into specifics into what was recovered at the scene. The individual or individuals that did this horrific act could be watching me speak right now. I am not letting them know what I have,' the NYPD said."

http://abc7ny.com/news/police-and-o...nity-meeting-on-queens-jogger-murder/1460982/

 

[Momoffourboys]

Jay Dow, Pix11's report from the meeting

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2OIP43AQY-Q

 

[Momoffourboys]

Howard Beach Civic Assoc. FB

https://www.facebook.com/Howard-Beach-Lindenwood-Civic-457069224493251/

 

[bettiepageturner]

Was it within the vicinity of this crime? I think I'd call that in if I were you. Ya never know, they could go out there today and see a shirtless man in khakis and question him....?

Just wanted to update that I did end up calling this in (especially after reading more about Belt Parkway access, and verifying exactly where I was and when through MapMyRun). They didn't sound super interested (obviously) but said it'll be passed along in case they send a patrol out there to see who might be hanging out in those marshes as well. I also read up on the efforts to clean up the overgrowth on Howard Beach and add cameras/police presence and I really hope it'll come to pass.

I still haven't quite felt back to "normal" ever since this happened, I guess because of the distance to me and the overlap of circumstance. Last night I had a nightmare about somebody waiting in the woods for another young woman - anybody at all - and it was kind of that "running in slow motion" dream feeling where I couldn't do anything with this information to help anybody, it was just weighing in my gut that somebody had chosen a wooded trail at random, very close to its exit/entrance, broad daylight again. And then I woke up to news about Vanessa Marcotte and I just feel sick. IMO they're not related, save for the possibility of some psychopathic loser being inspired by the coverage on Karina's case.

 

[Curious Me]

Darn, LE is not giving a description of a perp or any vehicle description. No suspects or persons of interest at this time. No further info is being shared. There's been very few tips even with a reward. I pray they really do have some DNA evidence they found at the crime scene, and the perp is in the system, or maybe some camera footage from nearby home or business. Starting to worry this is going to be a hard case to solve especially if it's random. :frown: