NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #1

[MarcBerlin]

During my law studies i visited some prisons in Germany and also talked to killers. To my surprise they are often not very athletic and also not very tall but more the kind of average guys.
In real life murderers (those who kill one time and are not serial killers) have often an unspectacular, trivial appearance.

I do not think that Karina's killer has much experience in close combat - this kind of beating seems "unprofessional" to me. Someone with fighting experience could overpower even an athletic girl in just a few seconds with the right technique.
Also i think that the beating was not (only) a result of hate or rage but more likely an unprofessional act of fighting her down.

In this case maybe she would have survived if she did not fight back so strong because the killer wanted to rape her and the murder was a result of her strong resistence and his inability to handle a situation in which the victim resists so much - but this is just speculation.

 

[Curious Me]

Heck, for all I know, he could've been some out of shape guy all energized and crazed up on meth. :frown: So far, it seems there's very few tips or facts to latch on to for solving this case. The residents of that neighborhood must feel very uncomfortable not knowing who did this to Karina.

 

[x_files]

Heck, for all I know, he could've been some out of shape guy all energized and crazed up on meth. :frown: So far, it seems there's very few tips or facts to latch on to for solving this case. The residents of that neighborhood must feel very uncomfortable not knowing who did this to Karina.

I agree the right drugs makes people crazed. Meth, PC, bath salts, speed.

 

[Twinthunder3]

I'm surprised that there's only 3 tips. Karina fought for her life, was there any mentioning of residents there hearing her scream or anything?

The other interesting part is that it occurred on NYPD national night out, not sure if that's a factor or not.

 

[GeeEm]

August 10, 2016
7:15 PM EDT

Dr Drew is reporting on this.

• Karina's father says no link between Vanessa Marcotte case

• Spokesman stated murders were different

 

[Curious Me]

Neither here nor there, but here's two predators that come to mind that had violent sexual offenses in their past who were big, football player type men that got away from detection for years before they were finally locked away for life. I don't know why these two come to mind now, maybe it's because catching them was such a long process and such a relief once they were caught.


John Albert Gardner III
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-John-Gardner-warns-I-kill-I-know-I-will.html


Jesse L. Matthew Jr.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lain-girl-attends-hearing-support-family.html

 

[Inthedetails]

During my law studies i visited some prisons in Germany and also talked to killers. To my surprise they are often not very athletic and also not very tall but more the kind of average guys.
In real life murderers (those who kill one time and are not serial killers) have often an unspectacular, trivial appearance.

I do not think that Karina's killer has much experience in close combat - this kind of beating seems "unprofessional" to me. Someone with fighting experience could overpower even an athletic girl in just a few seconds with the right technique.
Also i think that the beating was not (only) a result of hate or rage but more likely an unprofessional act of fighting her down.

In this case maybe she would have survived if she did not fight back so strong because the killer wanted to rape her and the murder was a result of her strong resistence and his inability to handle a situation in which the victim resists so much - but this is just speculation.

My hunch is that the guy was not big, but confident enough that he could take her down. I'm guessing he was surprised by the fight she gave him. Since I lean toward thinking it was more than one perp, I'm thinking they both (or more) gave her a beating. I am envisioning wiry young men, either who walk around as transportation or bike. I also think they have girlfriends....and I REALLY wish one of those young women would say something to LE as I do think the girlfriend(s) suspect something.

It was an August summer day in those weeds....I don't envision an overweight or out-of-shape guy going in there. I think it was someone who is outdoors quite a bit.

Of course, I could be totally off base.

 

[jjenny]

I'm surprised that there's only 3 tips. Karina fought for her life, was there any mentioning of residents there hearing her scream or anything?

The other interesting part is that it occurred on NYPD national night out, not sure if that's a factor or not.

That area has a lot of plants/trees. Not a lot of people hang in there.

 

[jjenny]

I do not think that a higher amount/reward has an actual effect to solve the case faster or more effective. It is more a symbol and a kind of psychologically relief for the family of the victim and other sharing persons that they do something helpful.
The case could be solved by the help of coincidences or little details but not with money.

Also i am not sure if the killer was a strong/athletic person. I read this very often in this case that it must have been a strong killer because Karina was athletic and attend the gym often. The killer had the advantage of surprise on his side and also when she start fighting against him he was high on adrenalin. In this status combined with the effect of surprise attack even a non-athletic guy could be the killer. Furthermore when i look at her pics she seems to be in good physical shape but that has not really a lot to do how effective an attacked person fights off an attacker.

If somebody knows something, large reward could entice them to talk (where they wouldn't have otherwise). Of course if nobody other than the killer knows anything the reward is useless.

 

[SeesSeas]

http://pix11.com/2016/08/10/walk-to...n-howard-beach-as-reward-money-grows-to-130k/

Walk to honor Karina Vetrano scheduled in Howard Beach as reward money grows to $130K
POSTED 4:31 PM, AUGUST 10, 2016
[…]
A walk has been scheduled for Aug. 16 at 6 p.m., A Facebook post to the Howard Beach Moms reads that attendants will walk the steps on the route Karina jogged every night with her father.
Participants will meet at 83rd Street and 165th Avenue.
Her father described the park as "her happy place" and a place where she felt good.

 

[Theforeigner]

My gutt instinct/guess is that the killer is:

A stalker
White, italian or hispanic male
25-40 years old
Lives in New York City area.
A charming psychopat
Good looking
A Dany/party type og guy
Pretty short in stature (pick very petite victims)
Smart
Manipulative
Smart lier
self-absorbed
Have possibly studied ? but never completed his education.
Financially independent, not necessarily working much, possibly out of a family with money.
Owns a smart car
Coccain user
A regular user of hard core sadistic/violent *advertiser censored*
Frequent s/m clubs and s/m dating sites
A few minor criminal records for some kind of violence + lots of speeding tickets.
Have raped several times, possibly also murder but gotten away with it.
Are known to have been violent towards his girlfriends.
And I believe he shall be found in Karina's (and Vanessa Marcotte's) peripheral social circles.

I could be totally wrong of course, however this is the picture/feeling I have had all along...
Time will tell what kind of person this monster is, SOON I hope...and pray for !

 

[Theforeigner]

August 10, 2016
7:15 PM EDT

Dr Drew is reporting on this.

• Karina's father says no link between Vanessa Marcotte case

• Spokesman stated murders were different

Could you please provide a link ?

 

[GeeEm]

Could you please provide a link ?

I do not have a link, Dr Drew is on television, a transcript should be available later.

Thanks ~

 

[x_files]

My gutt instinct/guess is that the killer is:

A stalker
White or hispanic male
25-40 years old
Lives in New York City area.
A charming psychopat
Good looking
A Dany/party type og guy
Pretty short in stature (pick very petite victims)
Smart
Manipulative
Smart lier
self-absorbed
Have possibly studied ? but never completed his education.
Financially independent, not necessarily working much, possibly out of a family with money.
Owns a smart car
Coccain user
A regular user of hard core sadistic/violent *advertiser censored*
Frequent s/m clubs and s/m dating sites
A few minor criminal records for some kind of violence + lots of speeding tickets.
Have raped several times, possibly also murder but gotten away with it.
Are known to have been violent towards his girlfriends.
And I believe he shall be found in Karina's (and Vanessa Marcotte's) peripheral social circles.

I could be totally wrong of course, however this is the picture/feeling I have had all along...
Time will tell what kind of person this monster is, SOON I hope...and pray for !

He could be of Italian descent also.
The smart car part cracked me up, but it's intriguing.

 

[Curious Me]

Regarding John Gardner I remember so clearly the murderous rage he showed on his face when the victim who got away from him while jogging faced him in the courtroom and asked him how his nose was because the only way she got away was to elbow him in his nose. He had this rageful look on his face and tried to deny she hurt him.

This woman got away, but Gardner went on to attack and kill Chelsea King in that same area. He was a RSO. He'd already killed Amber Dubois undetected in a different area, but then moved and was staying with his mother and hadn't reported his change of address. Hope you don't mind, I want to share a bit of her story here:

“It was a beautiful day. I was passing people the entire time. And I was coming up to the end of the trail and was in sight of the houses. And I noticed a man who was walking toward me. And he was -- I noticed him because he was not dressed in workout clothes. But it was so close to the houses that I just assumed that he, you know, was a resident going for a walk, because the day was so beautiful. And he waited until we were next to each other and then tackled me and threw me to the side of the trail,” she said.

“He threw me down on to the ground and he pinned me to the ground. And like I said, I was screaming. And he said, "Shut up." And I said, "No!" And he said -- he told me to shut up again. And I said, "No!" And then I said, "Well, you're going to have to kill me first," because I thought that he was trying to rape me. And he said, ‘That can be arranged,’ she said.

And there was this small moment of silence. And then there was intervening conversation that I'm not comfortable discussing. And at one point, he picked me up by my shoulders and he started shaking me, the way you're not supposed to shake a child. And I managed to get one hand on the ground, my left hand. And I took my right elbow and I -- I bashed him in the nose. And he grabbed his face and turned away from me and yelled some things. And I got up and I ran faster than I think I've ever run in my life.”

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Lake-Hodges-Attack-Victim-Speaks-88170922.html

 

[x_files]

Regarding John Gardner I remember so clearly the murderous rage he showed on his face when the victim who got away from him while jogging faced him in the courtroom and asked him how his nose was because the only way she got away was to elbow him in his nose. He had this rageful look on his face and tried to deny she hurt him.

This woman got away, but Gardner went on to attack and kill Chelsea King in that same area. He was a RSO. He'd already killed Amber Dubois undetected in a different area, but then moved and was staying with his mother and hadn't reported his change of address. Hope you don't mind, I want to share a bit of her story here:

If he was a RSO was his dna already on file? I'm trying to remember details of this case. thanks

 

[Inthedetails]

My gutt instinct/guess is that the killer is:

A stalker
White or hispanic male
25-40 years old
Lives in New York City area.
A charming psychopat
Good looking
A Dany/party type og guy
Pretty short in stature (pick very petite victims)
Smart
Manipulative
Smart lier
self-absorbed
Have possibly studied ? but never completed his education.
Financially independent, not necessarily working much, possibly out of a family with money.
Owns a smart car
Coccain user
A regular user of hard core sadistic/violent *advertiser censored*
Frequent s/m clubs and s/m dating sites
A few minor criminal records for some kind of violence + lots of speeding tickets.
Have raped several times, possibly also murder but gotten away with it.
Are known to have been violent towards his girlfriends.
And I believe he shall be found in Karina's (and Vanessa Marcotte's) peripheral social circles.

I could be totally wrong of course, however this is the picture/feeling I have had all along...
Time will tell what kind of person this monster is, SOON I hope...and pray for !

I agree with this list except for the car, education, income, and age. I think he doesn't have a car, has high-school ed, and is 17-24, and still lives at home with sporadic income. He might be a stalker-type, but I don't think he stalked Karina. I do envision a party guy....and I'm hoping he has a big mouth and will brag that he got away with the crime right under the nose of the whole neighborhood filled with cops.

 

[Razz]

Just a thought-- maybe he couldn't run off and leave her alive because he does live in the neighborhood and he knew she could identify him.

I am hoping that police viewed surveillance video (entrance to the park) the entire day prior to the rape and for the evening after the attack as well as the entire following day to see if anyone of interest walked out of the park.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

 

[jillycat]

If somebody knows something, large reward could entice them to talk (where they wouldn't have otherwise). Of course if nobody other than the killer knows anything the reward is useless.

I don't think anyone is going to trip over themselves for any reward. Either because of extreme fear or because no one really knows anything, and I suspect it's the latter. But these cases can always have surprises.

 

[stmarysmead]

I have a different theory. I think it was two young guys, initially just hanging around in the trail and then they saw her. I wonder if this started out as harassment and she did not take it seriously...maybe they were younger than her...and she just thought they were obnoxious, but harmless. I'd like to know more about why she slowed down and what she was texting.

When her Mother said she was "a force to be reckoned with"...would she have engaged someone verbally who was smarting off and did that escalate to a fight, a beating, and the then, the double rape? Maybe the severity of her injuries were not from trying to subdue her, but a beating that preceded the rape.

Just thinking out of the box.