OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #3

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Does anyone else find it odd that Brian and Clint started and ended their night at the Ugly Tuna Saloona?

I thought about this a little bit a while back. It did stick out to me when I first started reading about Brian. But then again it's not exactly unusual for people to come and go from the same bar in one night. Without knowing the area it's hard to say. It could be that the rest of the bars in the area were just dead, or maybe he wanted to see the particular band that was playing later that night so they bar hopped a bit to kill some time until the band were on.

Looking at what they were drinking is more interesting to me. Granted, alcohol affects different people in different ways but getting stupidly drunk and becoming in an almost incapacitated state off of a few shots of 'hard liquor'?
 
The detectives who searched the construction area did not believe it was in a stage that could have concealed Brian’s body. They took dogs through there as well and they did not hit on the area.

Would the dogs have picked up on his scent if he were carried out in a garbage bin?
 
Could he have climbed up on the roof?
 
I thought about this a little bit a while back. It did stick out to me when I first started reading about Brian. But then again it's not exactly unusual for people to come and go from the same bar in one night. Without knowing the area it's hard to say. It could be that the rest of the bars in the area were just dead, or maybe he wanted to see the particular band that was playing later that night so they bar hopped a bit to kill some time until the band were on.

Looking at what they were drinking is more interesting to me. Granted, alcohol affects different people in different ways but getting stupidly drunk and becoming in an almost incapacitated state off of a few shots of 'hard liquor'?

Bryan wasn't incapacitated at the time he was shown in the videos, or according to witnesses right before the bar closed. Then right at closing time, Clint and Meredith couldn't find him, he was already gone. So if he became incapacitated it had to have been after he left the bar. Right? Unless he was drugged, and the drugs didn't kick in until he walked away from the bar ? Idk, feel like I'm going in circles. :/
 
Would the dogs have picked up on his scent if he were carried out in a garbage bin?

I don't believe there is any information available regarding this. It is known that dogs were used to pick up Brian's scent but I am not sure as to what extent they were used in the investigation. No one can answer this question except those directly involved in the investigation.
 
Bryan wasn't incapacitated at the time he was shown in the videos, or according to witnesses right before the bar closed. Then right at closing time, Clint and Meredith couldn't find him, he was already gone. So if he became incapacitated it had to have been after he left the bar. Right? Unless he was drugged, and the drugs didn't kick in until he walked away from the bar ? Idk, feel like I'm going in circles. :/

In that footage we see of him talking to the 2 women he looks like he is hanging around aimlessly to me like he is passing time or just waiting around for something while the 2 girls talk to each other. He doesn't look like he is engaged in their conversation with them. It's possible he was tipsy or just a little drunk but i don't see how he goes from that to passing out in a dumpster or falling over in the toilets or stumbling drunk for a couple of miles to the river as some theories suggest. But yeah If he was drugged I could see how it would be different. There's just such a short window of time.
 
The detectives who searched the construction area did not believe it was in a stage that could have concealed Brian’s body. They took dogs through there as well and they did not hit on the area.

Police have been wrong before.
 
In that footage we see of him talking to the 2 women he looks like he is hanging around aimlessly to me like he is passing time or just waiting around for something while the 2 girls talk to each other. He doesn't look like he is engaged in their conversation with them. It's possible he was tipsy or just a little drunk but i don't see how he goes from that to passing out in a dumpster or falling over in the toilets or stumbling drunk for a couple of miles to the river as some theories suggest. But yeah If he was drugged I could see how it would be different. There's just such a short window of time.

I agree with John,

How could so much happen in this case in such a short time? Unless this was a pre-meditated situation.

Satch
 
First post here. I think this is one of those cases where it's easy to get caught up in what seems like an important detail, but in the end doesn't have much relevance. In this case I'd say that detail is the security footage not showing him leaving. Obviously we know he exited the bar, whether he was alive or dead can't be known for certain. After seeing the pictures of the area outside the bar I find it hard to believe he exited that way without being seen or caught on camera. So he had to have left via an exit in the bar that led to an area other than the main escalators.
I find it more than a little unlikely that he could've been injured or killed in the construction area and then covered up either knowingly or unknowingly. I also don't find it likely that anything happened to him in the bar itself. This leaves two important questions. First, who did he leave the bar with? I am assuming he left with someone else because of the way he just ditched his friends. That isn't something people tend to do unless they've met someone else, either a different friend, a girl, the band, an employee, etc. And second, what happened once he left the bar?

It it seems to me that he was the victim of fouls play or an accident prettt shortly after leaving the bar via an alternative exit. If he was intoxicated and it wasn't the greatest neighborhood either could've been equally likely. Id also have to add find the theories of witnessing or participating in a drug deal gone bad seem a bit far fetched.

Two things about the friend Clint. Firstly, it doesn't strike me as particularly weird that he lawyerd up and what not. My uncle is a judge and another is a lawyer, having been raised in this type of environment there are very very few instances where I would allow myself to be questioned by police without a lawyer, even with nothing to hide. I can see how this might seem weird to many, but it was just one of those things that was ingrained in my head from an early age. And the second thing is regarding him being at the apartment for 6 hours. This also doesn't necessarily strike me as that odd. The next day i would imagine he very much still believed that Brian ended up with someone else after leaving the bar and would return. Nevertheless I can imagine a close friend would be concerned or annoyed enough over the circumstances that he'd be waiting for him the next day. I can think of one or two close friends that would've had a key to my residence in college, or who I'd have left the door unlocked for or knew where a spare key was. I also wouldn't have found it unusual for a friend that close to be waiting for me the next day if I'd seemingly disappeared from them the previous night and couldn't be reached on my cell phone.

This is a good post but we definitely do not know that for sure. One of the big theories is he could have been buried into the cement or into a trash compactor. Unless that is what you mean by "dead".

I for one, believe he was probably killed in the bar and his body was dumped. That makes the most sense to me because there is no trace of him. I don't buy the whole "left to start a new identity" that just seems farfetched when he had nothing on him. You would think his body turned up in the water or somewhere else. I don't know. This case is very frustrating because he was in a very crowded place and his friend wont talk.
 
This is a good post but we definitely do not know that for sure. One of the big theories is he could have been buried into the cement or into a trash compactor. Unless that is what you mean by "dead".

I for one, believe he was probably killed in the bar and his body was dumped. That makes the most sense to me because there is no trace of him. I don't buy the whole "left to start a new identity" that just seems farfetched when he had nothing on him. You would think his body turned up in the water or somewhere else. I don't know. This case is very frustrating because he was in a very crowded place and his friend wont talk.
I tend to agree; I think he died in or near the bar. One way I can see it happenimg outside of the actual bar is this: 1) he tries to score some drugs from an employee at the bar; 2) the person says, "I've git the stuuf in my ride" 3) they both go out the back way to the other person's car; 4) Brian uses, OD's, and collapses in or near the person's car; Brian's body is dumped.

I'm suspicious of Clint's unwillingness to take a polygraph, but I don't think he could have pulled killing Brian in the bar and getting rid of the body so cleanly. An employee of the bar could have done so without too much dificulty.
 
I tend to agree; I think he died in or near the bar. One way I can see it happenimg outside of the actual bar is this: 1) he tries to score some drugs from an employee at the bar; 2) the person says, "I've git the stuuf in my ride" 3) they both go out the back way to the other person's car; 4) Brian uses, OD's, and collapses in or near the person's car; Brian's body is dumped.

I love how people piece these scenarios together with nary a piece of evidence.
 
Just reading some old threads around the internet on Brian. As far as him coming to harm INSIDE the vicinity, the only one that makes sense (to me) is the construction accident. Everything else seems too fantastical, too farfetched.

Brian overdosed or was drugged, choked on his vomit and passed out in the toilets - In a crowded bar, even at closing time someone would have seen something. Plus, presumably, even after the patrons have all left the bar, the person/staff member who closes up checks the toilet area and the cubicles etc. Unless you believe someone felt liable for it and covered it up but what motivation would they have for that?

He was killed by a staff member and his body disposed of later on - But surely that would have been picked up on camera. A staff member leaving the vicinity with a huge body under wraps is not picked up by anyone or noticed by anyone at all in a busy nightlife area? Also, a poster on here who is familiar with the area said they always have cops stationed all around the area where he went missing from.

Even once they leave the Ugly Tuna they still have to go to the trouble of loading up the body in the car, etc which takes a while and then run the risk of being seen on camera from nearby businesses. If they disabled the cameras or erased footage from the Tuna, you'd expect that the cops investigating would have been able to figure cameras for the night had been tampered with. We have to assume they checked the footage for a while AFTER checking the one where they don't spot him leave. Surely the detectives would have thought "well we don't see him on the main cameras at closing time let's look at the footage for the street and nearby for the rest of the night in case he suddenly stumbles out of some alley or side street at 4am or 5am".

His body was removed from the bar in a carry case for the bands equipment - What on earth would be the motive for that though? We are told the band were questioned and cleared. Plus if he was removed from the bar using their equipment cases or vehicle then that means more than one or all of the band members must have been in on it and that just seems crazy to me. What was likely some young Indie or alternative cover band who have probably never witnessed anything more than a weed deal all of a sudden become able to keep a brutal murder or disposable of a body under wraps for all these years and nobody feels guilt or gives anything away?

Clint did something to him inside the bar - Time frame is too short for this. The detectives said that Clint and Meredith's story checked out and that they saw it all on camera exactly as Clint said it happened, so we have to believe he was at least telling the truth about when he left and the timing at closing time.

To me the fact that in all these years none of the staff members of the time or the band members have surfaced or made any comment or anything on Brian's case doesn't make them suspicious it just shows that they likely never knew or saw anything, and then shortly after just completely forgot about it and went on with their life. If more than one civilian or several were involved in killing him or harming him I just don't see how something would not have come out by now, especially with social media. It's not like this happened in a yardie dancehall club where people getting shot dead on the dance floor is routine, violence is normal, and nobody ever speaks for fear of repercussion. This was a bar of mainly middle class students and probably young temp bar staff working in between studies. How are we to believe that people working in and frequenting that type of environment would not let anything slip from 2006 to now if they had something to do with him going missing.
 
Just reading some old threads around the internet on Brian. As far as him coming to harm INSIDE the vicinity, the only one that makes sense (to me) is the construction accident. Everything else seems too fantastical, too farfetched.

Brian overdosed or was drugged, choked on his vomit and passed out in the toilets - In a crowded bar, even at closing time someone would have seen something. Plus, presumably, even after the patrons have all left the bar, the person/staff member who closes up checks the toilet area and the cubicles etc. Unless you believe someone felt liable for it and covered it up but what motivation would they have for that?

He was killed by a staff member and his body disposed of later on - But surely that would have been picked up on camera. A staff member leaving the vicinity with a huge body under wraps is not picked up by anyone or noticed by anyone at all in a busy nightlife area? Also, a poster on here who is familiar with the area said they always have cops stationed all around the area where he went missing from.

Even once they leave the Ugly Tuna they still have to go to the trouble of loading up the body in the car, etc which takes a while and then run the risk of being seen on camera from nearby businesses. If they disabled the cameras or erased footage from the Tuna, you'd expect that the cops investigating would have been able to figure cameras for the night had been tampered with. We have to assume they checked the footage for a while AFTER checking the one where they don't spot him leave. Surely the detectives would have thought "well we don't see him on the main cameras at closing time let's look at the footage for the street and nearby for the rest of the night in case he suddenly stumbles out of some alley or side street at 4am or 5am".

His body was removed from the bar in a carry case for the bands equipment - What on earth would be the motive for that though? We are told the band were questioned and cleared. Plus if he was removed from the bar using their equipment cases or vehicle then that means more than one or all of the band members must have been in on it and that just seems crazy to me. What was likely some young Indie or alternative cover band who have probably never witnessed anything more than a weed deal all of a sudden become able to keep a brutal murder or disposable of a body under wraps for all these years and nobody feels guilt or gives anything away?

Clint did something to him inside the bar - Time frame is too short for this. The detectives said that Clint and Meredith's story checked out and that they saw it all on camera exactly as Clint said it happened, so we have to believe he was at least telling the truth about when he left and the timing at closing time.

To me the fact that in all these years none of the staff members of the time or the band members have surfaced or made any comment or anything on Brian's case doesn't make them suspicious it just shows that they likely never knew or saw anything, and then shortly after just completely forgot about it and went on with their life. If more than one civilian or several were involved in killing him or harming him I just don't see how something would not have come out by now, especially with social media. It's not like this happened in a yardie dancehall club where people getting shot dead on the dance floor is routine, violence is normal, and nobody ever speaks for fear of repercussion. This was a bar of mainly middle class students and probably young temp bar staff working in between studies. How are we to believe that people working in and frequenting that type of environment would not let anything slip from 2006 to now if they had something to do with him going missing.

Hey John,

Great post! What do you think happened to Brian, he just took off undetected,and decided to drop out of society? Do you think that Brian is still alive?

Satch
 
I posited one possible[/]scenario; I didn' state that is was the only possibility.
.


I never said you did. I was pointing out that people construct all kinds of fanciful scenarios for Brian's fate based on zero evidence.

<modsnip>
 
This seems like as good a time as any to remind people that Brian is still missing and hope beyond hope that he is out there ( or in there ) somewhere! imo, speculation.
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Hey John,

Great post! What do you think happened to Brian, he just took off undetected,and decided to drop out of society? Do you think that Brian is still alive?

Satch

Hi Satch

I don't really have a favourite theory where Brian is concerned. I do not think he is alive or took off willingly though. Inside the building I think the construction accident is the most likely. If it was outside where he came to harm I think he probably just went through another exit like the staff one that was not covered well by a camera and was possibly mugged and fatally stabbed, followed into an alley, robbed and maybe knocked out and hit his head on a curb or something like that. If he was robbed and physically attacked the people who did it may not have even known they delivered a fatal blow and killed him. Still, it's strange that if some scenario like that did happen no body has been found at all.

I read something long long ago about Clint Florence possibly being homosexual and having feelings for Brian or being jealous or uneasy of his relationship with Alexis, which I thought was interesting, but I can't join up how that connects do him disappearing suddenly like that within that short time frame. Clint being in his apartment for all that time after is suspicious as well.

If Clint was involved something along those lines seems more likely to me. For example; both men are a little drunk, Florence tries to get him to entertain a discussion about ending things with Alexis, Brian refuses or says the timing isn't right, like "Ah man i'm having a good night why bring this up now?". Florence says he'll speak to Alexis himself which triggers Brian, they argue, Brian says something like "you're no friend of mine", storms off and then disappears (coming to some harm somewhere else). Florence thinks Brian will be back when he's calmed down and sort his story out himself, but when it becomes apparent something bad might have happened because he's been gone for too long, Florence is scared to retract his initial statement to police because it will make him look suspicious. Therefore he lawyers up and blocks any further discussion of the case from his life. I could see something similar to that going down.
 
The red flags to me, that we know of, are Brian disappeared, he apparently turned off his cell phone as it went immediately to voice mail.... To me this says that he did not want to talk to Clint or Meredith, he was purposely trying to avoid them, which he did. The question is why and, what happened after that?
 
The red flags to me, that we know of, are Brian disappeared, he apparently turned off his cell phone as it went immediately to voice mail.... To me this says that he did not want to talk to Clint or Meredith, he was purposely trying to avoid them, which he did. The question is why and, what happened after that?
Why would anyone turn off their phone immediately when out in a bar?
Even in abduction cases the perps do turn off the victim's phone, but not right at the moment, unless they are professional killers imo, speculation.
 
The cell phone could also not have been reachable by a cell tower for other reasons, like bad reception in buildings. I know I used to have a lot of problems with my cell provider inside office buildings.
 
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