OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

[rsd1200]

And CR2 was a 16 year old boy. There has been much talk about how the killers spared the children, well a 16 year old is a child too. And a 19 year old is a teenager.

I hope no plea bargain as well.

BBM
Yes, they are. And a 19 y.o. isn't much more than a child themselves.

 

[Dudly]

JMo but that seems odd to me that there would be a pattern. I agree with you that was the meaning of it but just odd that they would shoot her that way. It has to have some meaning if it was done that way. Jmo

It may have had a meaning to the shooter. We may never know if it meant anything special.

 

[Myland]

BBM
Yes, they are. And a 19 y.o. isn't much more than a child themselves.

Since you brought up age, as for last charge on Jake if true he started dating Hanna at 17 and Hanna 13, with both sets of parents approval, should they have stopped dating when he turned 18? Trying to think how a defense could present it. Jmo

 

[Dudly]

When I lived over in West Virginia in 60s and early 70s everyone had a still. Like I've said before weed is the new moonshine in rural Appalachia. Still to grow decent weed you have to have grow lights ( it would stifling hot in them trailers) and a recipe (grow plan.) People don't like bunk weed these days. Ironically, all the kids in the holler knew where every still was in a 10 radius.

There are plenty of stills in use even in these days. It is surprising how many. Most are for personal use these days....

 

[rsd1200]

Since you brought up age, as for last charge on Jake if true he started dating Hanna at 17 and Hanna 13, with both sets of parents approval, should they have stopped dating when he turned 18? Trying to think how a defense could present it. Jmo

I have thought of this scenario a lot. Both sets of parents obviously knew, there were FB photos of she and JW, very comfortable with one another, that were public. Teachers knew that HMR was expecting and planned to leave for homeschooling during her pregnancy. Doctors knew. had too. At least one or more pastor knew, as did a slew of relatives, on both sides.

This matter was left up to both families discretion. Again, using the region's history, it is not all that uncommon. When you live in BFE, there's not a whole lot to do, and when you have a lot of family, in a small community, ya gotta look outside the community borders, or you might be dating a cousin. Their ages would not sway me one way or the other re; JW, seeing as how both parents were obviously okay with the relationship.

 

[OsoTejano]

Norm you and I are from a couple of states that take that DP seriously. Juries are not shy about handing out the DP. And they don't stay long at Huntsville or McAlester either. I don't know about Ohio though.

O/T Horns = Hooked. I just had to do that Norm.

JMO

I am not a big proponent of the DP in anything other than especially heinous crimes ( This case certainly qualifies imo)

The DP is applied in Ohio more than a lot of states, but not even close to Texas. A DP sentence in Ohio could take 20 or 25 years to play out if not longer. On top of that, a lot of not most of DP cases in Ohio end with LWOP. A lot has to do with where the case is tried. In Franklin county DP sentences are very rare. Over in Hamilton or Montgomery county, it probably is applied more frequently.

 

[Normrock]

Norm you and I are from a couple of states that take that DP seriously. Juries are not shy about handing out the DP. And they don't stay long at Huntsville or McAlester either. I don't know about Ohio though.

O/T Horns = Hooked. I just had to do that Norm.

JMO

Actually WVA fan.

 

[Myland]

I have thought of this scenario a lot. Both sets of parents obviously knew, there were FB photos of she and JW, very comfortable with one another, that were public. Teachers knew that HMR was expecting and planned to leave for homeschooling during her pregnancy. Doctors knew. had too. At least one or more pastor knew, as did a slew of relatives, on both sides.

This matter was left up to both families discretion. Again, using the region's history, it is not all that uncommon. When you live in BFE, there's not a whole lot to do, and when you have a lot of family, in a small community, ya gotta look outside the community borders, or you might be dating a cousin. Their ages would not sway me one way or the other re; JW, seeing as how both parents were obviously okay with the relationship.

I agree, common in the area. Not that is right at all. Sad how many 8th grade girls and 9th grade girls have babies. Both sets of parents allowed them to stay in their homes. Jmo

 

[Ellmau]

I have thought of this scenario a lot. Both sets of parents obviously knew, there were FB photos of she and JW, very comfortable with one another, that were public. Teachers knew that HMR was expecting and planned to leave for homeschooling during her pregnancy. Doctors knew. had too. At least one or more pastor knew, as did a slew of relatives, on both sides.

This matter was left up to both families discretion. Again, using the region's history, it is not all that uncommon. When you live in BFE, there's not a whole lot to do, and when you have a lot of family, in a small community, ya gotta look outside the community borders, or you might be dating a cousin. Their ages would not sway me one way or the other re; JW, seeing as how both parents were obviously okay with the relationship.

Dana wasn’t quite 17 herself when she gave birth to Frankie.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Maybe multiple firearms involved although the scene seems nearly impossible.

Btw, each of the accused is charged with the same counts and the same specifications. Does it mean LE believes each of them went in each house with each a suppressor? Or does it mean LE charges everybody as a group to determine the participation of each later in court?

What do you think? The same charges for everyone make it look like they dont really know the role of the defendants in detail. Otherwise it means LE can prove who shot whom and everybody participated equally. I doubt, it's that simple.

Anyone expert on prosecutions?

Edit: improved for understanding

During the commission of felony’s resulting in death each defendant is often charged with all the crimes which were part and parcel. Exception was the sex crime against JW. It was a crime years prior to the murders.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

You are too kind Betty.

But speaking of research, you researched the autopsy's more than anyone else on here IIRC. DeWine fought the release of them all the way. He said releasing them would impede the investigation and we all tried to guess what was in them that he didn't want out in the public. Do you think those autopsy reports contained information about pieces of the silencers (fluff) lodged in the wounds of the victims? And would that knowledge have allowed the W's to get rid of everything connected to them?

Or do you think there was another reason DeWine didn't want them out? If so what?

If in fact there were pieces of silencer (fluff) in the wounds of the victims and the materials were bought at Walmart by the Wagners and they were able to match those purchases forensically to the pieces in the victims that would be an air tight case IMO.

JMO

I think that’s an important part of it.

 

[rsd1200]

I agree, common in the area. Not that is right at all. Sad how many 8th grade girls and 9th grade girls have babies. Both sets of parents allowed them to stay in their homes. Jmo

For the record, my view may be tilted. I was not permitted to date til the age of 16. However, I skipped out, and got hitched, just a couple years later, to someone significantly older than me. Not my wisest decision, at the time, but it was my own. Lasted quite a few years, and after it dissolved, I married my better half, who is also quite a few years older than me. It's just a preference for me (older males, that is).

 

[Normrock]

I am not a big proponent of the DP in anything other than especially heinous crimes ( This case certainly qualifies imo)

The DP is applied in Ohio more than a lot of states, but not even close to Texas. A DP sentence in Ohio could take 20 or 25 years to play out if not longer. On top of that, a lot of not most of DP cases in Ohio end with LWOP. A lot has to do with where the case is tried. In Franklin county DP sentences are very rare. Over in Hamilton or Montgomery county, it probably is applied more frequently.

I'm actually not for DP that much. It is just the methodical cold bloodiness of this murder. This was a crime of pure calculating hate.
Read article below long involved, you will hate perp until end. Another proven scientific method debunked. We might execute a lot of people, but we are trying to get it right. Read second 2 links on Texas Forensic Science Committee.
Trial by Fire
Texas Forensic Science Commission - Wikipedia
TJB | FSC

 

[KentuckyMama]

Since you brought up age, as for last charge on Jake if true he started dating Hanna at 17 and Hanna 13, with both sets of parents approval, should they have stopped dating when he turned 18? Trying to think how a defense could present it. Jmo

I think JW will say it was with the blessing of HR parents. I'm sure they will counter with something along the lines of them being murdered so they can't vouch for that so they will just have to follow the word of law.

 

[Myland]

I think JW will say it was with the blessing of HR parents. I'm sure they will counter with something along the lines of them being murdered so they can't vouch for that so they will just have to follow the word of law.

Jmo opinion but I think the state will lose this charge.

 

[KentuckyMama]

Jmo opinion but I think the state will lose this charge.

How? It's an age thing. Verifiable. Not dependant on parental opinion. I guess anything is possible in this case, but that charge is a home run. The proof walks and talks and they call her SW. JMO

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I am playing devils advocate here. Before people start asking if I'm a friend or on Ws side. Go read when I first posted my reasons for being here. Also, one person quoted the Bill of Rights earlier. Read 6th amendment bottom of post. Yes I think LE has devastating evidence of guilt of Ws. My main observation is because if they didn't the politician (Dewine) would have disappeared like a poot in a hurricane. Defense will try to explain away suppressors with hunting and attack forensics with all experts having all sorts of different theories trying to confuse juries and create doubt. Personally I think LE has Ws on audio/video discussing murders in which attorneys will be breaking down prosecutors door to plead out.



Legislative Service Commission

Ohio, house bill 234 signed into law 3-23-15
Use of suppressor on gun while hunting game birds or wild qu
adrupeds

Authorizes a person who holds a valid hunting license to use a suppressor attached
to an authorized gun while hunting game birds or wild quadrupeds (R.C. 1533.04).

Exempts a person who owns a firearm muffler or suppressor attached to a gun that
is
authorized to be used for hunting from the existing prohibition against knowingly
acquiring, having, carrying, or using any dangerous ordnance (R.C. 2923.17).

Replaces "silencer" with "suppressor" within the definition of "dangerous ordnance"
and in provisions requiring mandatory prison terms for conviction of a firearms
specification (R.C. 2923.11(K), 2929.14(B)(1)(a)(i),
and
2941.144(A))
https://www.lsc.ohio.gov/documents/gaDocuments/analyses130/h0234-rs-130.pdf

6th Amendment
This Amendment is present in all trials or court cases in America. The 6th Amendment in the American Constitution guarantees an individual the right to a fair, speedy, and public trial. The 6th Amendment also enables an individual to have legal assistance, regardless of the charge, and the right to confront adverse witnesses and notice of accusations. These rights are given to all men or women under trial for any sort of wrongdoing. They establish the “innocent until proven guilty” mantra that is present in the United States legal system.

I don’t think the suppressor issue is applicable here. They weren’t hunting bird or game.

They were hunting living, breathing people.

 

[Myland]

How? It's an age thing. Verifiable. Not dependant on parental opinion. I guess anything is possible in this case, but that charge is a home run. The proof walks and talks and they call her SW. JMO

The relationship was started prior to him turning 18. I can’t agree with charge due to this and parental consent. I would not allow a 13 year old of mine to do that and I would not allow a 17 year of mine to do that, but I can’t agree with the charge either. Jmo

 

[rsd1200]

I think JW will say it was with the blessing of HR parents. I'm sure they will counter with something along the lines of them being murdered so they can't vouch for that so they will just have to follow the word of law.

If they go back to FB, or pictures, or phone messages, the Rs allowed her to go on vacation with them, when she was only 14. They posted it on his FB about being excited to go to Florida. Her parents had to know. They had to know that a 14 year old was not in her bed. For at least 3-4 days or more. When a parent wakes up and a child is not in their bed, and they are under 18, especially, they tend to panic. LE is called.

 

[rsd1200]

Jmo opinion but I think the state will lose this charge.

I think they've thrown everything at them that they can think of, but, in today's climate, it may just stick.