OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #27

[amauet1]

It reads:



Maybe they didn't fire him. Maybe they took him off of one job and placed him on a less visible one or laid him off until they find out what is going on. This family has had so much trauma, I hate to see this man, and his family suffer. We don't know if he is guilty or not guilty, but it's supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. If I'd found that thing on my truck after my family had been slaughtered, right down the street, (and knew was a tracker), I'd have taken it off too, but I sure wouldn't have told LM! I had no clue that it was so easy for LE, to toss out such a piddly reason, and get approval, to put one of those things on your property.

Question, I don't know the law, but what would have happened if JM had just plead guilty to the tampering charge? Would he have faced jail time or just been fined the cost of the gps unit? If the latter, it would have been cheaper.

 

[Flatbush]

Considering LE has spent an entire year putting pressure on the Manleys and the Manleys have been cooperating by taking polys, etc. it sounds like LE is working a dry hole so to speak. If JM knows the killers, then LE should have an idea by now of who they are. Might be helpful if LE spent a little manpower putting pressure on the suspects, instead of the witnesses. Until a couple of weeks ago, it doesn't seem they were doing that.

BTW, what ever happened to the guys who were running the "shatter" lab? The discovery of MJ shipments at the local post office and subsequent bust of a shatter lab happened around the time of the Rhoden killings. Early on, we thought these cases might be linked.

Amazingly, it seems Prosecutor Rob Junk actually dismissed charges against the two guys who were buying MJ and using it to manufacture "shatter" in their lab.

Pike prosecutor dropping 'shatter lab' charges

http://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...s-dropped-derek-boyer-aaron-higgins/86145380/





Rob Junk gave one of the most unusual excuses for dropping the felony charges. He's dropping charges, after finding a lab with MJ and shatter, plus equipment, etc. because he needs to "gather more evidence".




There's something really, really wrong with the way Rob Junk does his job.

The father of one of the guys is a big businessman in Pike County, Junk dropped the charges. FACT.

IF this ever makes it to court I pray they take it to another county!

 

[amauet1]

I think the secrecy and delays are a combination of #1 and part of #3.
The following are my thoughts and opinions.
The Rhoden/Gilley murders were up close and personal. Basically, two generations of one branch of the Rhoden family tree were killed. This brings to my mind that the motive may very well end up being resentment/hatred/envy of someone close to them. Several theories have merit for me.
In committing these murders, I think the killer(s) unintentionally opened a Pandora's Box that has led to Betty P's #1 and #3 situations.
I think that a massive criminal enterprise was discovered as a result of the murders. Something maybe interstate in scope be it drugs, vehicle or heavy equipment theft, or whatever. Now, a criminal enterprise has to have a top man/woman and here is where "Boss Hogg" enters. I think the Rhoden/Gilley murderer(s) acted entirely on their own. I just don't see Boss Hogg calling for or sanctioning such a headline-grabbing situation as these murders are. Let's put Boss Hogg on hold for a little bit.
The Rhoden men may have been involved in some way, shape, or form with the large criminal enterprise. I am not putting them down if they were. (Off topic here, the father of one of my life-long friends was an old moonshiner, could make the stuff "taste almost as smooth as sipping whiskey" as they used to say, wonderful people, salt of the earth.) LE could have discovered information at the murder scenes about the big criminal enterprise. LE could be trying to follow the chain of command up to Boss Hogg.
Perhaps the killers are also in some way involved with the criminal enterprise too. However, I don't think their motive is in any way related to it.
Boss Hogg would not be happy with the killer(s) if this happened. In fact, he/she might want to make their miserable lives worse. Boss Hogg may believe that the killer(s) might throw him/her under the bus to get themselves some help.
So, long supposition short, people who have not been truthful with LE and could help the murder investigation progress are doing so out of fear of keeping the attention of Boss Hogg and not really fear of the killers themselves.
Lastly, I still think KR was a crime of opportunity in that his killer knew the others were dead and decided to use it as a cover for theft.

I agree with everything except KR (and I'm wrong a lot!) I feel he was in the same boat as the rest of them. If they were using right-of-way/access dirt road/woods as a way of getting onto property, I think they took him out first and quick.

 

[Betty P]

Question, I don't know the law, but what would have happened if JM had just plead guilty to the tampering charge? Would he have faced jail time or just been fined the cost of the gps unit? If the latter, it would have been cheaper.

IANAL, but someone noted that he could have faced a prison sentence of 1 yr or more. Likely, had he pleaded guilty and not given them any helpful information, they would have ensured he received the maximum sentence.

Because this was a preliminary hearing, there was no opportunity for JM to plead guilty or innocent. It never got that far.Prosecutor instead dropped the charges and said it would be pursued in a grand jury.

The prosecutors plan seemed to be to use the GPS tracker scheme to get some kind of arrest warrant against JM, then once in court, use the opportunity to quickly push his case into a grand jury. They really didn't care about the GPS tracker. They wanted to get him before a grand jury in a way that prevented his attorney from seeing the evidence or charges they might have against JM.

Apparently, if locals and some news stories indicate, this is a commonly used legal trick in Pike County.

 

[bighairdontcare]

Question, I don't know the law, but what would have happened if JM had just plead guilty to the tampering charge? Would he have faced jail time or just been fined the cost of the gps unit? If the latter, it would have been cheaper.

I believe that arraignment was at the municipal level. Since these are Felonies , common please court would have to hear the case.
This is what happens in our court up here - misdemeanor cases are arraigned, tried and sentenced in municipal court . Our common pleas court hears all felonies.


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[Betty P]

The father of one of the guys is a big businessman in Pike County, Junk dropped the charges. FACT.

IF this ever makes it to court I pray they take it to another county!

From a few searches on the internet, it doesn't appear Junk has brought any new charges against the men with the "shatter" lab in their home. That's been almost a year since he dropped those charges.

ETA: Here's a link to an earlier story that explains what Junk did yesterday WRT JM's case. Kind of convoluted.

http://www.dispatch.com/news/20170523/charges-in-rhoden-case-dropped-pending-grand-jury

A Pike County judge has dismissed the felony vandalism and tampering with evidence charges against James Manley, whose sister was one of eight people shot to death in the Rhoden homicides a year ago.

County Prosecutor Rob Junk said he asked for the charges, filed May 16, to be dropped Monday. If the case is to be refiled, it would be presented to a grand jury, Junk said.

 

[amauet1]

When I joined websleuths one year ago, I was concerned people were looking the wrong way while the media were distracted with the drug angle.

We tend to forget women are too often the victims of senseless violence. Innocent people are killed by people they know or love, for greed, revenge, jalousy or for their ideas. I tried to make that point so to balance the online conversation that supports calls for information.

Recent developments made public have finally changed the perception of this case in the community. I am a little more optimistic people with knowledge are going to disclose what they know.

This case is now at a point where I feel my input to the conversation is no longer needed. I enjoyed discussing this case with you all.

I've always respected and enjoyed your input! I will miss it, all opinions are welcome here. Sometimes when communicating with each other on line I might not read the emotions involved with the text, but I try to. After a year of a very frustrating case, I can fell kinda snarky, but try and maintain a even keel. Wish you nothing but the best!

 

[rsd1200]

I am troubled by some attitudes that it's justified to not tell the truth about family members that commit murder and other crimes.

If this is a prevalent belief, it's easy to see why so many crimes go unsolved. People know they could help get justice for others, but they take a short term solution with long term damaging results.

The idea that "they're dead anyway and we can't help them now," and "we'll get justice our own way with 'family' justice," is selfish on the part of those folks, IMO.

It may feel like your solving the problem in the short term, but will damage your family for generations to come. You can't build a strong and healthy family based on secrets and lies.

Appointing yourself judge and jury and circumventing our justice system is a poor foundation for your family.

It's like suicide. It may take your immediate pain away, but damages your family for generations to come.

All JMO

For me, personally, I'm not condoning, "not telling", I'm pointing out that it may be a very difficult situation. Those who may think they know something, may be unsure that it is something that will turn out to be significant, and if it isn't, then they've jumped the gun and earned the scorn of their family for suspecting them to be involved in any way. No one wants to hurt their family further. If they are sure, or unsure, they may continue to hope that another family member will speak up, OR that LE will find the link, and they won't have to speak up. Speaking out against the people who you have been raised with, and sat and ate at their tables, would be no easy thing. If LM, or any other family member, even knows anything to begin with. We don't know that they do know anything. In the situation I spoke of, anger had brewed for months, but they thought that LE would handle it, and when they didn't feel that LE had, anger prevailed. Someone died and they're facing life in prison. Could I go to LE if my sister killed my brother? I can't even think that it would happen, let alone what I would do.

 

[rsd1200]

I think, that around the time the home was purchased, (or a little later) , there were 2 married couples and one couple (HMR & JW) who considered themselves as married. Both younger couples, were expecting around the same time to. One had a boy and HMR had S. The couples seemed to have parted around the same time, with HMR and JW first. I know I'm pushing TOS rules so I can't say more. Do some research.

BBM
I have. I don't want to break TOS either but the 2nd mother has had visits.

 

[rsd1200]

Question, I don't know the law, but what would have happened if JM had just plead guilty to the tampering charge? Would he have faced jail time or just been fined the cost of the gps unit? If the latter, it would have been cheaper.

We don't know. Tampering and destruction of the gps are both felonies. One a 3rd degree and one a 5th degree. He turned himself in but he obviously feels he did nothing wrong. I think they were on very shaky ground for the reason they gave to go onto his property, and put the gps on his vehicle. Now had they had a warrant to cast his tire treads? Have at it.

 

[rsd1200]

IANAL, but someone noted that he could have faced a prison sentence of 1 yr or more. Likely, had he pleaded guilty and not given them any helpful information, they would have ensured he received the maximum sentence.

Because this was a preliminary hearing, there was no opportunity for JM to plead guilty or innocent. It never got that far.Prosecutor instead dropped the charges and said it would be pursued in a grand jury.

The prosecutors plan seemed to be to use the GPS tracker scheme to get some kind of arrest warrant against JM, then once in court, use the opportunity to quickly push his case into a grand jury. They really didn't care about the GPS tracker. They wanted to get him before a grand jury in a way that prevented his attorney from seeing the evidence or charges they might have against JM.

Apparently, if locals and some news stories indicate, this is a commonly used legal trick in Pike County.

BBM
Great explanation. Not only Pike County, OH, though.

 

[Betty P]

Encouraging that there is a grand jury. My guess is that it is a federal GJ and that racketeering is involved. Doesn't take too much to envision what sorts of pressure points Manley may have. Whatever he knows about the involvements of the rest of the family he likely knows through his own involvements--placing him at risk on the one hand of being tried for something illegal, or on the other hand of incurring the wrath of some folks bigger than him if he shares info. But, if they are talking GJ, odds are that LE has sufficient info to establish a case. Depending on the size of what they have put together (which most likely extends well beyond the individual murders), it may take some time before we hear the magic words "indictment." At that point I would look for some pretty quick LE action and arrests.

Sadly, no, it's a local Pike County grand jury. Run by a prosecutor with a questionable record and history. It's happening in a county that has experienced quite a bit of corruption among it's elected officials and LE. The prosecutor himself fell under suspicion recently, when he "loaned" a couple of guns to a (now) former county deputy who then "accidentally" shot and killed an innocent man.

http://www.dispatch.com/article/20151212/NEWS/312129715

The same deputy was already in trouble for shooting an innocent man after chasing him down a dead end road

http://www.10tv.com/article/pike-county-sheriffs-deputies-shoot-and-kill-man-after-vehicle-chase

Pike County isn't Mayberry RFD. The following news story was filed last year in conjunction with coverage of the Rhoden murders

Four Pike County deputies run afoul of the law in recent years


http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/stat...deputies-run-afoul-of-the-law-in-recent-years

 

[Betty P]

BBM
Great explanation. Not only Pike County, OH, though.

Yes, it's an Ohio thing. We used to joke that the US Constitution stops at the state line.

 

[ReadySet]

Are you referring to comments made by members here in this thread? Thanks in advance for clarifying your comment.

:seeya:

Both here and in other cases on WS also.

OP in this thread referred to the possibility they would willingly go to prison if someone harmed their child, by going after the criminal themselves instead of working with LE.

Another presented justification for not telling you know family members had killed others, because they are your family.

Another OP (can't remember if in this thread or another case) told of a home invasion, finding the invaders, beating them and leaving them in the woods, and not telling LE.

I'm not going to quote posts, I'm not trying to tell anyone how to post. But I can't be the only one who has seen these beliefs posted.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, it's an Ohio thing. We used to joke that the US Constitution stops at the state line.

You've got me there. $$$ can still work wonders on this side of the line though.

 

[Renee110]

I, for one, don't want to believe JM is involved, because I too have a soft spot for LM and don't want to see him suffer more. But let's not forget that LE believes this man is withholding information about his sister's murder. How many of us on here would withhold information in a family members murder? Why is he withholding that information from investigators? If that was my sister I would be camped out in the investigators office 24/7 telling everything I knew from the day I was born.

The only thing I can thick of is saving my own life.

 

[rsd1200]

The only thing I can thick of is saving my own life.

I've got a spouse, kids, and grandkids. I'd not put their lives in jeopardy. As I said, I've not been in the position. I don't know what I'd do. Horrible thought.

 

[amauet1]

BBM
I have. I don't want to break TOS either but the 2nd mother has had visits.

I've "heard" not lately, seems the boy is with the father on "vacation". And I know you have done "tons" of research Rsd! You, Betty P, Flatbush, Dudley, Rasin and so many more! That was meant for others to look, so I don't get in trouble. Wonder what happened with "that" custody issue?
Oh, and does anyone know if glf is alright, it's not like them to not be here.

 

[amauet1]

We don't know. Tampering and destruction of the gps are both felonies. One a 3rd degree and one a 5th degree. He turned himself in but he obviously feels he did nothing wrong. I think they were on very shaky ground for the reason they gave to go onto his property, and put the gps on his vehicle. Now had they had a warrant to cast his tire treads? Have at it.

Tires can be switched to other vehicles Hmmmmm.......

 

[rsd1200]

I've "heard" not lately, seems the boy is with the father on "vacation". And I know you have done "tons" of research Rsd! You, Betty P, Flatbush, Dudley, Rasin and so many more! That was meant for others to look, so I don't get in trouble. Wonder what happened with "that" custody issue?
Oh, and does anyone know if glf is alright, it's not like them to not be here.

I was trying to be "vague", earlier. Hope I'm not going against TOS but, I've a feeling the same offer was issued and there have been some type of visits granted. I'm with you. I think they're on a vacation. Possibly extended, but there's just too many animals on that farm for them to be gone too long, unless they managed to sell them all or the new buyers wanted them all. I didn't realize there were so many. I think there's another home further south in the state. I'm almost 100%.

I've not seen glf on in forever. Not in any of the other rooms either. I may have missed her though. I loosely follow a couple other threads and read new stuff that pops up.