OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[amauet1]

Not that I don't believe it, but is there a link or something to verify that CR2 was suspended from school?

I have "heard" this to.

 

[amauet1]

The trouble with having "heard" or rumors of this case is, you don't know if there true of not. But I will say that, some have proven to be true. Example, I had "heard" about the sheet/blanket that had covered CRsr at the scene, before it was published. But again, this website doesn't deal in rumors. So I just say I've "heard" it if I can provide no link. It's up to the other members to consider in of any value or not.

 

[Curiosum]

I can't speak to a physicians assistant but my brother in law is an oral surgeon. I asked how the March 15,2016 CDC guidelines changed his method of writing script for class two drugs.

He wasn't sure because he wasn't in his office at the exact timing but 2016 sounded about right. The biggest change for him personally was he could no longer call in to a pharmacy any class two drugs.

I then asked by who whose authority was he licensed to write Rx and he said its the DEA.

I then asked who catalogued his Rx history. He said all script has his unique lincense #. So it is his lincense from the DEA that allows him to write script.They would know exactly how many class two drugs he wrote.

Of course he isn't verified here at websleuths but I did think it was interesting.

:cow:

You can’t write controlled substances without a valid DEA registration and license for the state you want to prescribe in. If you want to practice in two states you will likely need two DEA registrations. Additionally, some states require additional state CSRs. Different states also have different guidelines on what appropriate prescribing is. For example in OH there are restrictions on duration of prescriptions, daily morphine equivalent limits, etc. This is for physicians. For midlevel providers (ie PA, NP, APRN etc) there are further restrictions on schedule 2 prescribing and in some cases they can’t prescribe some schedule 2 drugs.

 

[Betty P]

You can’t write controlled substances without a valid DEA registration and license for the state you want to prescribe in. If you want to practice in two states you will likely need two DEA registrations. Additionally, some states require additional state CSRs. Different states also have different guidelines on what appropriate prescribing is. For example in OH there are restrictions on duration of prescriptions, daily morphine equivalent limits, etc. This is for physicians. For midlevel providers (ie PA, NP, APRN etc) there are further restrictions on schedule 2 prescribing and in some cases they can’t prescribe some schedule 2 drugs.

Thanks for that helpful information. It seems unlikely, then, that this small company was unable to prescribe pain meds/opiods unless they had a physician on staff with DEA and state registration, correct?

BTW, have you had a chance to review the heavily redacted autopsy reports for the victims of this case? Would you like to take a look at them if you haven't? We would really appreciate it.

Here's a link:

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/...BCI/Pike-County-Final-Autopsies-REDACTED.aspx

 

[Dudly]

Hi Raisin:

Re yr responses, I'm just going to cut and paste if that's ok.

I didn't phrase my #2 question in the right context, but made reference to it earlier:

Why didn't LE send someone to search the W family farm the day of the murders?

LM already alluded to the custody fight. Local LE had responded to the fights the week before, there was probable cause.

LE cannot arrest the W's because they don't have "enough" evidence. Perhaps they don't have enough evidence because they didn't look for it right after the murders. W's had time to get rid of the evidence and get stories straight because LE gave them time to do that.

LE didn't search the W farm or question them closely for weeks, if not months. Is this the reason why LE has refused to reveal anything publicly about the investigation?

Evidence W's may have left behind


JW was the only family member who visited any of the Rhoden family homes. If his entire family participated in the Rhoden murders, one would not expect to find all of their DNA or prints in the home from previous social visits.

There are also other types and locations for evidence the W's could have left behind not related to social visits.

Fingerprints or DNA on shell casings

Blood - someone likely got bloodied up when they fought with CR1

Gunshot residue on hands and clothing

Pretty convenient that most of that kind of evidence was likely destroyed before LE got around to looking for it.

Because LE didn't look for evidence at the W's for so long, they didn't have to arrest the W family. It also gave them an excuse to allow the W's to move to AK.

Why did non-Ohio LE stop and question the W's several times as they traveled to AK?

Other LE were more suspicious of the W family because they stopped and questioned them numerous times on their trip to AK. FBI, DEA, etc. apparently weren't allowed to question the W's in Ohio. They had to wait until they left the state, then stopped them along the way.

Why would the Feds do this? Is it because they were never allowed to question the W's when they were living in Ohio? DeWine himself said all they used the FBI for was some analysis of evidence.

Why is there still fear in the community?

It's a small town. If W's did it, there would be a lot of people who know that. It would be in the grapevine and, once the W's were gone, people would relax. They also might talk, since, if it's just the W family involved, there's no fear of retribution. Why would other locals and friends of Rhodens want to protect the W's? They should be talking by now.

If the W's did it, why aren't PCSO & BCI still trying to build a case?


They have warehouses full of evidence from 4 separate crime scenes. Probably 10-15 different rooms were contaminated by the killers, all with doors, walls, video cameras, floors for foot prints, etc. Clothing from the victims worn at the time of death would contain hair, fibers, possibly blood from the killers.

Why haven't they called in the FBI for help? To the best of our knowledge, FBI has never even set foot inside those trailers. None of their agents were caught on video of photos of the crime scenes.

Link

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...massacre-investigation-move-alaska/411441001/

Is there anything definite as to what the fight the week previous was about and whom was involved. I know it was brought up recently but I don't think there was a conclusion about what happened....

 

[MizStery]

Timeline modification request.

Betty P do we want to include the following event in the timeline. JW gave an inconsistent statement on whose residence the joint custody exchange for SW took place. The question looms was JW evasiveness driven by an attempt to distance himself from ground zero of one of the primary CSs? Then another question is was there any indication who requested the scheduled joint custody start date be moved one day earlier?

So in conclusion was any reason ever given why and which parent needed the schedule to be modified?Then the final question becomes what reason was given?

I'm including my post for context.

Even after reading the paragraph about how,who picked up their daughter I'm still confused.

Wagners Laser Focus Murder Hunt
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]<snip>[/FONT][/FONT]
Unusually, he collected his daughter the day before the massacre from her mother instead of the usual agreed Friday.
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]<snip>[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]DailyMail.com asked George Jr why they had put down new roots in Alaska and if the police scrutiny was wearing his family down, but he refused to comment.[/FONT][/FONT]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...focus-multiple-murder-hunt.html#ixzz59ZWwsDd1
:cow:

 

[Betty P]

Betty P do we want to include the following event in the timeline. JW gave an inconsistent statement on whose residence the joint custody exchange for SW took place. The question looms was JW evasiveness driven by an attempt to distance himself from ground zero of one of the primary CSs? Then another question is was there any indication who requested the scheduled joint custody start date be moved one day earlier?

So in conclusion was any reason ever given why and which parent needed the schedule to be modified?Then the final question becomes what reason was given?

I'm including my post for context.

We need to make mention of it somewhere. The news reports on this conflict. Some quote him as saying he normally would have been there the day of the murders, this one says he was there. It may be a reporting error by the Daily Mail. But, yeah, it should be noted in the timeline as a possibility. Don't you think?

 

[Betty P]

Is there anything definite as to what the fight the week previous was about and whom was involved. I know it was brought up recently but I don't think there was a conclusion about what happened....

The only official reports in the news media were from LM in the interview shortly after the murders, correct? Around the same time, in other interviews he referred to a custody issue. That's how I linked the two together.

 

[Dudly]

The only official reports in the news media were from LM in the interview shortly after the murders, correct? Around the same time, in other interviews he referred to a custody issue. That's how I linked the two together.

The reason I've wondered is because it could have been several things that were going on around that time. CR2 had been threatened on facebook, the assault on CR2, and there seemed to be an ongoing argument over the derby car, then there was the fight where the guy's false teeth were broke and they came for retaliation and were run off from UHR.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Hi Raisin:

Re yr responses, I'm just going to cut and paste if that's ok.

I didn't phrase my #2 question in the right context, but made reference to it earlier:

Why didn't LE send someone to search the W family farm the day of the murders?

LM already alluded to the custody fight. Local LE had responded to the fights the week before, there was probable cause.

LE cannot arrest the W's because they don't have "enough" evidence. Perhaps they don't have enough evidence because they didn't look for it right after the murders. W's had time to get rid of the evidence and get stories straight because LE gave them time to do that.

LE didn't search the W farm or question them closely for weeks, if not months. Is this the reason why LE has refused to reveal anything publicly about the investigation?

Evidence W's may have left behind


JW was the only family member who visited any of the Rhoden family homes. If his entire family participated in the Rhoden murders, one would not expect to find all of their DNA or prints in the home from previous social visits.

There are also other types and locations for evidence the W's could have left behind not related to social visits.

Fingerprints or DNA on shell casings

Blood - someone likely got bloodied up when they fought with CR1

Gunshot residue on hands and clothing

Pretty convenient that most of that kind of evidence was likely destroyed before LE got around to looking for it.

Because LE didn't look for evidence at the W's for so long, they didn't have to arrest the W family. It also gave them an excuse to allow the W's to move to AK.

Why did non-Ohio LE stop and question the W's several times as they traveled to AK?

Other LE were more suspicious of the W family because they stopped and questioned them numerous times on their trip to AK. FBI, DEA, etc. apparently weren't allowed to question the W's in Ohio. They had to wait until they left the state, then stopped them along the way.

Why would the Feds do this? Is it because they were never allowed to question the W's when they were living in Ohio? DeWine himself said all they used the FBI for was some analysis of evidence.

Why is there still fear in the community?

It's a small town. If W's did it, there would be a lot of people who know that. It would be in the grapevine and, once the W's were gone, people would relax. They also might talk, since, if it's just the W family involved, there's no fear of retribution. Why would other locals and friends of Rhodens want to protect the W's? They should be talking by now.

If the W's did it, why aren't PCSO & BCI still trying to build a case?


They have warehouses full of evidence from 4 separate crime scenes. Probably 10-15 different rooms were contaminated by the killers, all with doors, walls, video cameras, floors for foot prints, etc. Clothing from the victims worn at the time of death would contain hair, fibers, possibly blood from the killers.

Why haven't they called in the FBI for help? To the best of our knowledge, FBI has never even set foot inside those trailers. None of their agents were caught on video of photos of the crime scenes.

Link

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...massacre-investigation-move-alaska/411441001/

BBM

We don't know that JW is the only who was in the homes. According to AW CR1 and BW were best friends. It is entirely conceivable that both BW and AW and the other son were all in the homes numerous times. They may have even been at HR's baby shower.

We just don't know, so it is not feasible to assume they never visited the homes, including KR's.

JMO

 

[amauet1]

You can&#8217;t write controlled substances without a valid DEA registration and license for the state you want to prescribe in. If you want to practice in two states you will likely need two DEA registrations. Additionally, some states require additional state CSRs. Different states also have different guidelines on what appropriate prescribing is. For example in OH there are restrictions on duration of prescriptions, daily morphine equivalent limits, etc. This is for physicians. For midlevel providers (ie PA, NP, APRN etc) there are further restrictions on schedule 2 prescribing and in some cases they can&#8217;t prescribe some schedule 2 drugs.

Since you are a physician, may I ask a question? You understand medicine and I don't, did you find anything in the redacted autopsy reports that would help us in anyway?

 

[Rhoda]

Thanks for that helpful information. It seems unlikely, then, that this small company was unable to prescribe pain meds/opiods unless they had a physician on staff with DEA and state registration, correct?

BTW, have you had a chance to review the heavily redacted autopsy reports for the victims of this case? Would you like to take a look at them if you haven't? We would really appreciate it.

Here's a link:

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/...BCI/Pike-County-Final-Autopsies-REDACTED.aspx

0n the redacted autopsy reports, CRjr, CRsr,DR, HHG all have the gastrointestinal section referring to the tongue, blacked out.

The other victims, HR, GR, FR and KR all have the tongue listed as “atraumatic “ (meaning ‘normal’).

Could the tongues been removed by the killers?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Betty P]

0n the redacted autopsy reports, CRjr, CRsr,DR, HHG all have the gastrointestinal section referring to the tongue, blacked out.

The other victims, HR, GR, FR and KR all have the tongue listed as &#8220;atraumatic &#8220; (meaning &#8216;normal&#8217.

Could the tongues been removed by the killers?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It's an unusual detail, but we really don't know. I'm not a medical expert and we haven't had any here give us an opinion, yet.

IF that were true (and we don't know if it is) it might indicate the killers thought someone was talking to LE or something similar. It doesn't mean they were. Someone could have spread false information that one of them was an informant. Either way, it's high on the list of possible motives.

 

[rsd1200]

0n the redacted autopsy reports, CRjr, CRsr,DR, HHG all have the gastrointestinal section referring to the tongue, blacked out.

The other victims, HR, GR, FR and KR all have the tongue listed as “atraumatic “ (meaning ‘normal’).

Could the tongues been removed by the killers?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

BBM

self delete.

 

[rsd1200]

It's an unusual detail, but we really don't know. I'm not a medical expert and we haven't had any here give us an opinion, yet.

IF that were true (and we don't know if it is) it might indicate the killers thought someone was talking to LE or something similar. It doesn't mean they were. Someone could have spread false information that one of them was an informant. Either way, it's high on the list of possible motives.

Great question!

WS ate my grid! I'm not making another, I hope this makes sense. I wondered if the high number of shots correlated withe black outs. We don't have all of the shot data but it kinda looked like both KR and GR could be "have to" cases. So it could have been a targeted hit, specifically, on CR1, and his core family, and HHG was considered a R, even though they'd not married.

 

[Rhoda]

Great question!

WS ate my grid! I'm not making another, I hope this makes sense. I wondered if the high number of shots correlated withe black outs. We don't have all of the shot data but it kinda looked like both KR and GR could be "have to" cases. So it could have been a targeted hit, specifically, on CR1, and his core family, and HHG was considered a R, even though they'd not married.

What I read was that HHG and DR each had 5 shots. KR had 1 shot. CRsr had 9 shots. GR had 3 shots. I’m not sure of the number of shots for
HR, FR or CRjr.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MizStery]

Great question!

WS ate my grid! I'm not making another, I hope this makes sense. I wondered if the high number of shots correlated withe black outs. We don't have all of the shot data but it kinda looked like both KR and GR could be "have to" cases. So it could have been a targeted hit, specifically, on CR1, and his core family, and HHG was considered a R, even though they'd not married.

Could it be the excessive number of bullet wounds to the head and neck of some victim's be the culprit? Perhaps the bullet damage to the bone and soft tissue of the victim was so extensive that they redacted the underlying structural damage noted from the victim's autopsy?

:cow:

 

[rsd1200]

What I read was that HHG and DR each had 5 shots. KR had 1 shot. CRsr had 9 shots. GR had 3 shots. I’m not sure of the number of shots for
HR, FR or CRjr.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Also, It could just be how the bullet traced through, and it damaged the tongue, however, I'd still like to know, how those last nine shots were dispersed.

Number of shots per victim:
CRsr = 9 Tongue blacked out
DR = 5 Tongue blacked out
HHG = 5 Tongue blacked out
-----------------19 shots
HR = ?
FR = ?
CRjr = ? Tongue blacked out


GR = 3
KR = 1
---------------- 4 shots

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It's an unusual detail, but we really don't know. I'm not a medical expert and we haven't had any here give us an opinion, yet.

IF that were true (and we don't know if it is) it might indicate the killers thought someone was talking to LE or something similar. It doesn't mean they were. Someone could have spread false information that one of them was an informant. Either way, it's high on the list of possible motives.

It could also mean the dispute with RCA, since DR and CR2 are included.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

0n the redacted autopsy reports, CRjr, CRsr,DR, HHG all have the gastrointestinal section referring to the tongue, blacked out.

The other victims, HR, GR, FR and KR all have the tongue listed as &#8220;atraumatic &#8220; (meaning &#8216;normal&#8217.

Could the tongues been removed by the killers?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

We know that three of those four had the most gunshots with CR1 at 9 and DR and HHG at 5 each.