UNSOLVED Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

[rsd1200]

RSBM
This seems feasible to me. I recently listened to several episodes of the Vanished Podcast about a missing man named Amos Mortier. He was involved in fairly large quantity MJ distribution, and his friends mentioned how common it was for him to get ripped off. Say someone was stalling on a payment back to their source saying the stash was stolen, then dropped $30k on a house for the benefit of their family. Still seems excessive to result in 8 murders, but who knows.

It does, but, then again, so does murdering eight people so you don't have to go to family court. Honestly, I can't think of a real good reason to go out and murder an entire family, asleep, in their homes. There may be business ties to this but I do think there's something personal, too.

 

[superbee]

I think they're all under gag orders from the judge overseeing the GJ hearings, the prosecutors and LE. I'm sure they all know that talking will mess up the murder cases. Can't say I blame them at this point.

I am interested in the GJ. What are the particulars? Are ordinary citizens called up on the qt to serve? How are they selected? What are their families and employers told? Are they ever allowed to reveal to others they have served? Has anyone on here been on a GJ, if you can reveal.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

It does, but, then again, so does murdering eight people so you don't have to go to family court. Honestly, I can't think of a real good reason to go out and murder an entire family, asleep, in their homes. There may be business ties to this but I do think there's something personal, too.

Perhaps it’s BOTH. IF the R’s & W’s were involved in business together but the W’s were the ones who would take more heat for that business if the dealings came to light in regards to custody of a minor child. MAYBE the R’s had to be silenced because what would be revealed in custody court would be detrimental to the W’s and them being in S’s life.

It’s a long shot, but I truly think anything is possible at this point. Lots of IF’s and MAYBE’s on my part, though.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I am interested in the GJ. What are the particulars? Are ordinary citizens called up on the qt to serve? How are they selected? What are their families and employers told? Are they ever allowed to reveal to others they have served? Has anyone on here been on a GJ, if you can reveal.

I’m confused about the whole GJ situation because I was recently made aware of a former friend of mine being sent to a grand jury. It’s sad to know she’s put herself in a situation that would ever place her in front of a grand jury and my prayers remain that she will get her life together.

This particular case was charged at a municipal level on May 11th. The charges were dismissed from municipal court and sent to the Ohio grand jury. The GJ handed down an indictment last week. So they didn’t sit on the case. It took 2 weeks to have an indictment returned.

JM’s case is at a year later and we’ve heard nothing. A well known reporter on this case has said the GJ never did anything with his case. In order for there to be anyone testifying to the GJ in regards to JM’s case, the discovery of the search warrant would have had to been unsealed. That’s JM’s constitutional right, to know what evidence there is to warrant the charges and to be able to have a defense. IMO, nothing has been done or we would have seen the discovery by now.

 

[rsd1200]

I’m confused about the whole GJ situation because I was recently made aware of a former friend of mine being sent to a grand jury. It’s sad to know she’s put herself in a situation that would ever place her in front of a grand jury and my prayers remain that she will get her life together.

This particular case was charged at a municipal level on May 11th. The charges were dismissed from municipal court and sent to the Ohio grand jury. The GJ handed down an indictment last week. So they didn’t sit on the case. It took 2 weeks to have an indictment returned.

JM’s case is at a year later and we’ve heard nothing. A well known reporter on this case has said the GJ never did anything with his case. In order for there to be anyone testifying to the GJ in regards to JM’s case, the discovery of the search warrant would have had to been unsealed. That’s JM’s constitutional right, to know what evidence there is to warrant the charges and to be able to have a defense. IMO, nothing has been done or we would have seen the discovery by now.

The GJ just determines if there is just cause to send a case to the regular jury (petite jury). My friend was on one. It's the jury no one wants to get called for, as you go often, and are on it forEVER. It's secret, to protect the person until they are actually accused, but, prosecutors use it to force testimony from witnesses. Nothing said in the GJ can be used, in the trial. What is said in front of the GJ cannot be used to convict you at a trial. It's only to justify if there is probable cause to send the case to trial (normally always a yes). JM is considered innocent at this point. The court dropped the charges and sent the case to the GJ to see if there was reason to charge him, and take the case to court. Seems they're still mulling it over. I could be wrong, but that's the way I understood it to work.

 

[Betty P]

I’m confused about the whole GJ situation because I was recently made aware of a former friend of mine being sent to a grand jury. It’s sad to know she’s put herself in a situation that would ever place her in front of a grand jury and my prayers remain that she will get her life together.

This particular case was charged at a municipal level on May 11th. The charges were dismissed from municipal court and sent to the Ohio grand jury. The GJ handed down an indictment last week. So they didn’t sit on the case. It took 2 weeks to have an indictment returned.

JM’s case is at a year later and we’ve heard nothing. A well known reporter on this case has said the GJ never did anything with his case. In order for there to be anyone testifying to the GJ in regards to JM’s case, the discovery of the search warrant would have had to been unsealed. That’s JM’s constitutional right, to know what evidence there is to warrant the charges and to be able to have a defense. IMO, nothing has been done o or we would have seen the discovery by now.

JMO, JM has been called into GJ hearings about the murder case, not about tampering with the GPS. That was may have been a ruse to put pressure on him and get him to talk more about what he knows. JMO

Grand juries have much more leeway than regular juries because they're only voting on bringing charges against defendants. They're not determining guilt or innocence.

ETA: I also agree with your concerns about the possible involvement of the special church in all of this. It could explain why the lead investigators in this case have been so slow to move forward and so secretive. They may well be concerned about public opinion if they have to bring charges that involve members or leaders of a church.

 

[Dudly]

There's a couple different theories about GR, floating around about how long he was there, what he was there for, when he got there, and why. Greenup is so close, barely an hour away. He could have crashed with CR1 for 2-3 weeks, went home to Ky. here and there, crashed on a friend's couch, and most of his family would never knew he was even in town.

GR's mother's response...



Piketon homes where family died had pot-growing operations, officials say

GR's Stepmother:



Pike County: Death in the foothills

It sure sounds like it was more than a few weeks that GR spent with CRsr. But that said, it could have been on and off. He could have been back to Greenup for a weekend or more several times during that time without his family knowing especially if it was drugs he was there to get. I don't think he can be completely ruled out as a cause for these murders....

 

[MittenScarpetta]

It sure sounds like it was more than a few weeks that GR spent with CRsr. But that said, it could have been on and off. He could have been back to Greenup for a weekend or more several times during that time without his family knowing especially if it was drugs he was there to get. I don't think he can be completely ruled out as a cause for these murders....

I’ve never been able to rule him out as a cause for these murders. He’s a victim but between him and CR1, I’m not sure that either of them didn’t cause a chain reaction leading to these terrible events. No one deserves what happened to this family so I’m in no way justifying the murders. I guess I just come back to the statement my mama told me my entire life-if you play with fire, you get burned.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

JMO, JM has been called into GJ hearings about the murder case, not about tampering with the GPS. That was may have been a ruse to put pressure on him and get him to talk more about what he knows. JMO

Grand juries have much more leeway than regular juries because they're only voting on bringing charges against defendants. They're not determining guilt or innocence.

ETA: I also agree with your concerns about the possible involvement of the special church in all of this. It could explain why the lead investigators in this case have been so slow to move forward and so secretive. They may well be concerned about public opinion if they have to bring charges that involve members or leaders of a church.

That makes much more sense that GJ hearings would be about the murder case and not the tampering with evidence.

And that church...gives me a terrible feeling when I get to digging.

At the very least, I do believe a lot of things have been uncovered over two years that just aren’t right, the church being one.

 

[Dudly]

I have often thought that the 30k CR1 paid on DR's new home may have been someone else's money. Maybe from sales of illegal drugs and whoever it belonged to may have thought CR1 was going to stiff them when he used it to buy DR's house.

Just a random thought but if that money was supposed to be given to the W's for sales and CR1 used it to get a better place so HR would not lose custody, that would have been insult to injury I think.
JMO

That $30,000 has always made me wonder about where it came from. Personally, I would think if he had that kind of cash on hand, he would have helped FR fix the roof on the mobile home they lived in. His grand kids were living in that house. He and FR could have done the work. All they needed were materials. CRsr's roof was needing fixed also.
Nothing about his apparent life style would make you think he saved up $30,000.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

If I remember the date correctly, I believe there are a couple of estate hearings this morning. I think those are the final hearings on a couple of the outstanding estates. I dont know how long it takes Pike Co. to update their online records, but it will be interesting to see what transpires and if anything is released in the months to come with the cars and trailers still being held by Pike Co.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

That $30,000 has always made me wonder about where it came from. Personally, I would think if he had that kind of cash on hand, he would have helped FR fix the roof on the mobile home they lived in. His grand kids were living in that house. He and FR could have done the work. All they needed were materials. CRsr's roof was needing fixed also.
Nothing about his apparent life style would make you think he saved up $30,000.

Even if we take the $30k out to the question, it appeared there was money to go to car auctions, why wasn’t there funds to fix the roofs?

 

[Betty P]

Even if we take the $30k out to the question, it appeared there was money to go to car auctions, why wasn’t there funds to fix the roofs?

Maybe CR1 was pushing FR to stand up on his own and support his family. CR1 was giving him opportunities to make money, in addition to his regular job. FR seemed to be spending a lot on his derby car and maybe his dad was doing the "dad thing" by not bailing him out on home repairs, trying to pressure him to spend his money wisely.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Maybe CR1 was pushing FR to stand up on his own and support his family. CR1 was giving him opportunities to make money, in addition to his regular job. FR seemed to be spending a lot on his derby car and maybe his dad was doing the "dad thing" by not bailing him out on home repairs, trying to pressure him to spend his money wisely.

Good point.

 

[MizStery]

Off topic but I needed to ask a couple of questions before I am comfortable enough to post using the new S/W.

I attempted to find a good tutorial (quick and dirty)for users/non administrators navigating the xenforor editor for the first time. A simple FAQ site just on how non administrators use the editing toolbox after their message has posted to the thread.

I understand the toolbox in the 'reply' draft dialog box has the save/delete icon.But the save/delete 'icon' does not exist in the 'formatting toolbox' in the actual post after it has been submitted to the thread.

Are we not allowed to delete a post within a limited amount of time in the edit feature? Are only administrators authorized to delete messages after the posts are submitted to the thread?In other words are only mods authorized to delete a comment once in has been posted?

Has anyone found a helpful tutorial other than the one titled,"
Tutorial: Xenforo Forum Software" posted on Websleuths?The reason is although an excellent help on many questions;I still am still vague on the xenforor editor and would like another resource.

Thanks!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Just a few random thoughts rolling around in my head this morning.

I am not from Ohio so I don't know AG Dewine or any of his character traits. But it seems to me, listening to him on video that he can be a little spiteful. Or maybe not spiteful, petty may be the word. I also think he could have a quick temper and be vengeful. But I also think he is a man who carefully considers his words and never says anything that he does not mean. I also think he is a man who chooses his words and actions wisely and knows exactly what impression those words and actions will have on the public.

Anyway I would be interested in posters thoughts on the following.

Is it possible that when the AG realized he didn't have enough evidence for an arrest, he decided that the murderers would not get away scotfree. He knew who they were and why they killed the R's but he couldn't prove it. He couldn't come right out and name them as POI's or suspects because of the backlash of them suing him and the state if he didn't make an arrest or charge them with the murders.

But he wanted to shine a spotlight on them and make sure everyone else knows who they are too. He wanted to make their lives as miserable and difficult as possible.

So he does that "laser focus" thing and asks for the public help if they have had any dealings, or conversations with the W's about cars, guns or ammo.

Then he does the GPS thing with JM to cast suspicion on him so everyone knows he is also involved.

If you think about it, what purpose did that "laser focus" and plea to the public serve. What did he hope to gain by making those statements? Did he really expect someone to come forward and report selling a gun or a car or ammo to the W's? If he didn't have the evidence to arrest them and he couldn't name them as official POI's or suspects because of the threat of a lawsuit by them, then what remained open to him to make sure the whole world knew who killed the R's? The "laser focus" comment? Then there is the full scale, all hands on deck raids on W properties. SWAT teams and LE from three counties, photos of LE walking shoulder to shoulder as if hunting for something specific. Who tipped off the news media to those searches on W properties that day? Why wasn't the news media present when any of the other 40 or so search warrants were served? Is it possible the AG's office tipped off the news media? To make sure the public knew who killed the R's? To cast suspicion on the W's?

Then there is JM. What avenues did the AG have in relation to him? He didn't have the evidence to arrest him, or name him as a POI or suspect. All he really had according to LM was a 2:00 AM text message to JW that LE may or may not have known the content of (if both JM and JW deleted the texts from their phones then the actual words used could not be recovered) and a couple of failed polygraphs which are not admissible in court. He doesn't even have enough to make a "laser focus" comment about JM. So he goes after JM's truck and puts a GPS on it and maybe even has someone in the victims family to tip JM off to it's existence. Does the AG really know JM well enough to know he would take the GPS off and smash it? If we look at LM and gauge JM's actions by him then yes the AG knew JM would take it off and smash it, thus allowing LE to arrest him and make a huge publicity case. He didn't have to follow through with it, indeed the charges were dropped, he just wanted to make sure the public knew that JM was somehow involved.

Is AG DeWine really smart enough to do all that just to make sure the killers do not get off scotfree?

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Just a few random thoughts rolling around in my head this morning.

I am not from Ohio so I don't know AG Dewine or any of his character traits. But it seems to me, listening to him on video that he can be a little spiteful. Or maybe not spiteful, petty may be the word. I also think he could have a quick temper and be vengeful. But I also think he is a man who carefully considers his words and never says anything that he does not mean. I also think he is a man who chooses his words and actions wisely and knows exactly what impression those words and actions will have on the public.

Anyway I would be interested in posters thoughts on the following.

Is it possible that when the AG realized he didn't have enough evidence for an arrest, he decided that the murderers would not get away scotfree. He knew who they were and why they killed the R's but he couldn't prove it. He couldn't come right out and name them as POI's or suspects because of the backlash of them suing him and the state if he didn't make an arrest or charge them with the murders.

But he wanted to shine a spotlight on them and make sure everyone else knows who they are too. He wanted to make their lives as miserable and difficult as possible.

So he does that "laser focus" thing and asks for the public help if they have had any dealings, or conversations with the W's about cars, guns or ammo.

Then he does the GPS thing with JM to cast suspicion on him so everyone knows he is also involved.

If you think about it, what purpose did that "laser focus" and plea to the public serve. What did he hope to gain by making those statements? Did he really expect someone to come forward and report selling a gun or a car or ammo to the W's? If he didn't have the evidence to arrest them and he couldn't name them as official POI's or suspects because of the threat of a lawsuit by them, then what remained open to him to make sure the whole world knew who killed the R's? The "laser focus" comment? Then there is the full scale, all hands on deck raids on W properties. SWAT teams and LE from three counties, photos of LE walking shoulder to shoulder as if hunting for something specific. Who tipped off the news media to those searches on W properties that day? Why wasn't the news media present when any of the other 40 or so search warrants were served? Is it possible the AG's office tipped off the news media? To make sure the public knew who killed the R's? To cast suspicion on the W's?

Then there is JM. What avenues did the AG have in relation to him? He didn't have the evidence to arrest him, or name him as a POI or suspect. All he really had according to LM was a 2:00 AM text message to JW that LE may or may not have known the content of (if both JM and JW deleted the texts from their phones then the actual words used could not be recovered) and a couple of failed polygraphs which are not admissible in court. He doesn't even have enough to make a "laser focus" comment about JM. So he goes after JM's truck and puts a GPS on it and maybe even has someone in the victims family to tip JM off to it's existence. Does the AG really know JM well enough to know he would take the GPS off and smash it? If we look at LM and gauge JM's actions by him then yes the AG knew JM would take it off and smash it, thus allowing LE to arrest him and make a huge publicity case. He didn't have to follow through with it, indeed the charges were dropped, he just wanted to make sure the public knew that JM was somehow involved.

Is AG DeWine really smart enough to do all that just to make sure the killers do not get off scotfree?

JMO

AG DeWine is pretty smart guy, but even more, he's extremely powerful. A winning combination in OH. He can probably do whatever he wants with this case, within reason. Keep in mind, he was able to keep the autopsy reports from the news media by taking the case to the Ohio Supreme Court (on which his son serves as a justice).

The fact the state has spent a great deal of money and manpower on this case to keep as many details as possible from public (and news media) view indicates, JMO, they are in no hurry to solve it. The high profile Wagner raids were probably were tipped to the news media by BCI or someone, as it was followed up with DeWine's "laser focus" comments. The purpose, JMO, was to satisfy public demand that they show some progress or any activity on the case. Winning their Supreme Court case to hide the AR reports generated some bad publicity. The raids helped counter that and were timed well enough to coincide with W's leaving for AK.

Not working in his favor was the removal of two of the best reporters working on the case and asking lots of questions.

Ohio has been run by the same group of people for about 20 yrs now and DeWine is probably the most powerful member of that group who works in government. He and others are handling this case with surgical precision. If, as myself and others here have speculated, that Boss Hogg theories and/or a strange church are involved in these murders, it may be a while before arrests are made. When and if arrests happen is up to DeWine and others. JMO

 

[Dudly]

Just a few random thoughts rolling around in my head this morning.

I am not from Ohio so I don't know AG Dewine or any of his character traits. But it seems to me, listening to him on video that he can be a little spiteful. Or maybe not spiteful, petty may be the word. I also think he could have a quick temper and be vengeful. But I also think he is a man who carefully considers his words and never says anything that he does not mean. I also think he is a man who chooses his words and actions wisely and knows exactly what impression those words and actions will have on the public.

Anyway I would be interested in posters thoughts on the following.

Is it possible that when the AG realized he didn't have enough evidence for an arrest, he decided that the murderers would not get away scotfree. He knew who they were and why they killed the R's but he couldn't prove it. He couldn't come right out and name them as POI's or suspects because of the backlash of them suing him and the state if he didn't make an arrest or charge them with the murders.

But he wanted to shine a spotlight on them and make sure everyone else knows who they are too. He wanted to make their lives as miserable and difficult as possible.

So he does that "laser focus" thing and asks for the public help if they have had any dealings, or conversations with the W's about cars, guns or ammo.

Then he does the GPS thing with JM to cast suspicion on him so everyone knows he is also involved.

If you think about it, what purpose did that "laser focus" and plea to the public serve. What did he hope to gain by making those statements? Did he really expect someone to come forward and report selling a gun or a car or ammo to the W's? If he didn't have the evidence to arrest them and he couldn't name them as official POI's or suspects because of the threat of a lawsuit by them, then what remained open to him to make sure the whole world knew who killed the R's? The "laser focus" comment? Then there is the full scale, all hands on deck raids on W properties. SWAT teams and LE from three counties, photos of LE walking shoulder to shoulder as if hunting for something specific. Who tipped off the news media to those searches on W properties that day? Why wasn't the news media present when any of the other 40 or so search warrants were served? Is it possible the AG's office tipped off the news media? To make sure the public knew who killed the R's? To cast suspicion on the W's?

Then there is JM. What avenues did the AG have in relation to him? He didn't have the evidence to arrest him, or name him as a POI or suspect. All he really had according to LM was a 2:00 AM text message to JW that LE may or may not have known the content of (if both JM and JW deleted the texts from their phones then the actual words used could not be recovered) and a couple of failed polygraphs which are not admissible in court. He doesn't even have enough to make a "laser focus" comment about JM. So he goes after JM's truck and puts a GPS on it and maybe even has someone in the victims family to tip JM off to it's existence. Does the AG really know JM well enough to know he would take the GPS off and smash it? If we look at LM and gauge JM's actions by him then yes the AG knew JM would take it off and smash it, thus allowing LE to arrest him and make a huge publicity case. He didn't have to follow through with it, indeed the charges were dropped, he just wanted to make sure the public knew that JM was somehow involved.

Is AG DeWine really smart enough to do all that just to make sure the killers do not get off scotfree?

JMO

I put no stock in his "laser focus" or the staged searches. That was just enough to get some heat off him and still not really do anything. But, it made it look like he was getting something done. He had almost a year to do all that and didn't until they were moving out of state. If he didn't know they were moving, he isn't smart enough to solve this case. He is a career politician from a family of them. He knows what to say to make himself look good to voters. Looking good to voters is all that he cares about.

 

[MizStery]

Thanks Raisenback for your post. I agree with your comment that,"The AG went for the hyperbole 'laser focus' when referring to the W's and he concluded with a no holds barred public plea 'to please come forward with info on the sale of any guns,cars or ammo to the W's'?

Is it possible that when the AG realized he didn't have enough evidence for an arrest, he decided that the murderers would not get away scotfree. He knew who they were and why they killed the R's but he couldn't prove it.

Betty my following post is really a complex theory based my knowledge of communities in the 'Bible Belt'. I have attended many church services in revival tents back home. I have sat and listened to moma and papas neighbors playing fiddles on their front poarch and singing gospel hymns into the night. I have no personal knowledge of the W's church but I think I have an idea of it's biblical interpretations.

If, as myself and others have speculated,<snip>and or a strange church are involved in these murders]

I will paraphrase LM's early statement that 'the execution style murders' of his daughters extended family very likely was over a contentious child custody case.

Whoever swiftly slaughtered the Rhoden Family had years of conducting skilled precision nighttime hunts.I believe upthread rsd1200 mentioned that JW's family were experienced wild boar hunters.

I sincerely believe there were members in the W's church and likely several family members who had an obsession of rescuing SW from people they deemed 'morality unfit'. I know how 'absurd' that is but I think these people are fanciful and quite capable of this type of bloody crusade of pursuing 'good'vs 'evil'.

If it is the W's as I suspect they would find honor and make any sacrifice to rescue SW from people who they deemed as having a negative influences on her. I think the W's felt they had exhausted every channel and were running out of options. I think the W's were over extended paying legal fees & HR would not relent & do their bidding. So they felt justified in the monstrous act of slaughtering the Rhoden Family.

Why was KR murdered? He could have been a wild card therefore a possible danger or threat to saving SW so he became another casualty.

I agree with Betty P,MittenScarpitta and rsd1200 it is likely both families were involved in some type of business dealing & derbies. I have been working on another aspect of JW's involvement but have yet to find the broken links I need to finish my post.

This is my opinion please critique but be kind.

 

[Dudly]

Thanks Raisenback for your post. I agree with your comment that,"The AG went for the hyperbole 'laser focus' when referring to the W's and he concluded with a no holds barred public plea 'to please come forward with info on the sale of any guns,cars or ammo to the W's'?



Betty my following post is really a complex theory based my knowledge of communities in the 'Bible Belt'. I have attended many church services in revival tents back home. I have sat and listened to moma and papas neighbors playing fiddles on their front poarch and singing gospel hymns into the night. I have no personal knowledge of the W's church but I think I have an idea of it's biblical interpretations.




I will paraphrase LM's early statement that 'the execution style murders' of his daughters extended family very likely was over a contentious child custody case.

Whoever swiftly slaughtered the Rhoden Family had years of conducting skilled precision nighttime hunts.I believe upthread rsd1200 mentioned that JW's family were experienced wild boar hunters.

I sincerely believe there were members in the W's church and likely several family members who had an obsession of rescuing SW from people they deemed 'morality unfit'. I know how 'absurd' that is but I think these people are fanciful and quite capable of this type of bloody crusade of pursuing 'good'vs 'evil'.

If it is the W's as I suspect they would find honor and make any sacrifice to rescue SW from people who they deemed as having a negative influences on her. I think the W's felt they had exhausted every channel and were running out of options. I think the W's were over extended paying legal fees & HR would not relent & do their bidding. So they felt justified in the monstrous act of slaughtering the Rhoden Family.

Why was KR murdered? He could have been a wild card therefore a possible danger or threat to saving SW so he became another casualty.

I agree with Betty P,MittenScarpitta and rsd1200 it is likely both families were involved in some type of business dealing & derbies. I have been working on another aspect of JW's involvement but have yet to find the broken links I need to finish my post.

This is my opinion please critique but be kind.

Religion has caused a lot of bloodshed over history. More than any other cause...