GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #8

[nomoresorrow]

I think Tina's house is absolutely where they were killed. The uncle was quoted in a news story as saying there was so much blood in a few rooms that they had to be gutted. He also said something to the effect that everything led back to the bathroom.:sick:

add in: the follow text from here http://www.kansascity.com/2010/11/20/2455715/coroner-2-ohio-women-boy-stabbed.html

Blood covered so much of an Ohio home where two women and an 11-year-old boy were stabbed to death that several rooms have to be gutted, a family friend said.

snip

Pejsa, the uncle of Herrmann's former live-in boyfriend, Greg Borders, said he was the first person allowed inside Herrmann's home after investigators cleared the scene. He cleaned blood off the bathroom walls with bleach so his nephew wouldn't have to see it.

"It was terrible," he said. "Everything led back to the bathroom."

So does that mean that they were all dismembered at Tina's house before being taken to the disposal site (the tree)? I can't help but think how fortunate Tina's boss is to be alive after climbing through a window and going into that house...

 

[antiquegirl]

IMO Tanner was the kids pet. So it woul be weird if she text I feed your dog. He would thought that hinky...J/S

(BBM)

I've not been able to find any media quotes using the word "your" for this text. Everything I've read says either "their" dog, or "the" dog.

"a text to her former boyfriend, Greg Borders, saying she had fed their miniature pinscher."

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/Girl+found+family+still+missing/3833535/story.html

He said Herrmann texted him on his way to work at a distribution center about 80 miles away in West Jefferson about 4:40 a.m. Wednesday to let him know that she'd fed the dog.

http://www.kentucky.com/2010/11/12/1521617/4-reported-missing-forces-lockdown.html

I don't believe that this message was some kind of code by TH to GB to alert him that she was in danger. If she was already being held hostage, I doubt MH would have allowed her to text anyone. It would have been much wiser for him to have her text DQ to let them know she wouldn't be coming in to work. It's MHO that MH had yet to enter the house this early in the day and had arrived later.

JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

I think Tina's house is absolutely where they were killed. The uncle was quoted in a news story as saying there was so much blood in a few rooms that they had to be gutted. He also said something to the effect that everything led back to the bathroom.:sick:

add in: the follow text from here http://www.kansascity.com/2010/11/20/2455715/coroner-2-ohio-women-boy-stabbed.html

Blood covered so much of an Ohio home where two women and an 11-year-old boy were stabbed to death that several rooms have to be gutted, a family friend said.

snip

Pejsa, the uncle of Herrmann's former live-in boyfriend, Greg Borders, said he was the first person allowed inside Herrmann's home after investigators cleared the scene. He cleaned blood off the bathroom walls with bleach so his nephew wouldn't have to see it.

"It was terrible," he said. "Everything led back to the bathroom."

(BBM)

I'm positive that this was also said by Sheriff Barber in one of the pressers (that they were killed in TH's house). It's possible that he was jumping the gun there, but I doubt it.

JMO

 

[Tikki]

(BBM)

I'm positive that this was also said by Sheriff Barber in one of the pressers (that they were killed in TH's house). It's possible that he was jumping the gun there, but I doubt it.

JMO

I heard/saw him say that in the presser the day they were found. Also that Sarah was there, but not that she witnessed it.

 

[nerosleuth]

[QUOTE ]After moving to Apple Valley, Hoffman attended East Knox High School, graduating in 1999, while [/B]studying industrial electricity[/B] at the Knox County Career Center. [QUOTE ]

[QUOTE ]The spokeswoman said Hoffman was released on parole in January 2007, and his parole was transferred to Ohio because he had family here. He completed his parole last month. [QUOTE ]

Ok, we know that Hoffman went to Colorado after he graduated in 1999. And we know that he committed the condo arson in 2000.

The question here is did Hoffman ever get a job as a tree trimmer when he was in Colorado before the condo arson?

Hoffman could have worked for a contractor that trim trees for an utility electric company? I know that some utility electric companies have their own tree trimmers and some hire out contractors for this task.

The fact that he has a background in industrial electricity makes me wonder if he ever applied for a postion with an utility electric company. A lot of electric power lines do go thru near remote wooded areas.

Another thought here. The most likely route that Hoffman would have took to get from Ohio to Colorado is I-70 and US 40. You have to wonder just how many missing persons or unsolved murders that there could be along that route.

 

[antiquegirl]

I saw an article this morning, sorry no link (it was older article so didn't think to put it here), that other agencies around the state are looking at this suspect as a possibility for crimes in their area.

I personally think he MAY be good for more. Just within walking distance of his home was a murder Dec '09 (unsolved) and some home robberies (during the day).

fwiw,
fran

I'm wondering about fingerprints. Did MH leave any anywhere connected to this crime? That hasn't been released yet and probably won't until the trial or hearing.

But I'm just thinking that if he wasn't careful about leaving prints and he had priors, he may have left prints (and/or DNA) there, too. If that was the case, wouldn't the first thing LE do is compare them to a national database? MH's prints should have already been in the system since his arrest and incarceration for the robbery and arson charges. You'd think that any such evidence found in previous crimes would have already matched him to his prints. If there was no such evidence left, how will they connect him to them now, unless he confesses?

JMO

 

[nerosleuth]

I saw an article this morning, sorry no link (it was older article so didn't think to put it here), that other agencies around the state are looking at this suspect as a possibility for crimes in their area.

I personally think he MAY be good for more. Just within walking distance of his home was a murder Dec '09 (unsolved) and some home robberies (during the day).

fwiw,
fran

I recall a few nights ago the WBNS news anchor saying that the Ohio State Fire Marshall Office was looking into past suspicious fires.

 

[nomoresorrow]

After moving to Apple Valley, Hoffman attended East Knox High School, graduating in 1999, while [/b]studying industrial electricity[/b] at the Knox County Career Center.

The spokeswoman said Hoffman was released on parole in January 2007, and his parole was transferred to Ohio because he had family here. He completed his parole last month.

Ok, we know that Hoffman went to Colorado after he graduated in 1999. And we know that he committed the condo arson in 2000.

The question here is did Hoffman ever get a job as a tree trimmer when he was in Colorado before the condo arson?

Hoffman could have worked for a contractor that trim trees for an utility electric company? I know that some utility electric companies have their own tree trimmers and some hire out contractors for this task.

The fact that he has a background in industrial electricity makes me wonder if he ever applied for a postion with an utility electric company. A lot of electric power lines do go thru near remote wooded areas.

Another thought here. The most likely route that Hoffman would have took to get from Ohio to Colorado is I-70 and US 40. You have to wonder just how many missing persons or unsolved murders that there could be along that route.[/quote]

Apparently MH was hired by/working for a plumbing contractor in Colorado;
http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_16618467

Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't work a second job on the side.

 

[Leila]

It's Fox's continued push to provide inaccurate information.

"On Wednesday, Nov. 10, all three were attacked with a knife and stabbed multiple times in the back and chest causing fatal exsanguination of blood from their chest cavities. Smaller non-fatal wounds were also noted. Pending further tests, there were no signs of sexual assault. Sometime after death, the bodies were dismembered. They were then placed inside large plastic garbage bags and later lowered into the hollow of a large tree. The location of the deaths is pending further test,." Ogle said.

Thank you C.Hound- shoddy reporting... doesn't anyone fact check anymore?? That date was confusing to me... I thought it odd he would just hold them for that long of time.

VERY sad for me to think that LE did TWO welfare checks on Wed... one at 8pm and one at 11pm (according to timeline below, found on the media links page here on WS)... and MH was prolly inside with the victims. Not blaming the deputy at all- I don't think they can enter unless they hear/see evidence of foul play. I'm sure the deputy feels horrible


http://www.dispatch.com/live/conten...-missing-timeline-art-ghaajffr-1.html?sid=101

I think that by the time the deputy did the first welfare check, the three victims were likely deceased. If he suspected foul play and had called for back-up, Sarah may have been rescued quicker, and MH arrested before he had a chance to dispose of the victims. But, evidently there was nothing that aroused suspicion and without cause the deputy couldn't enter the home.

 

[Leila]

Kinda makes me wonder if the WalMart receipt was in Tina’s truck? Maybe MH realized it was missing, and he went back after it but, it was to late.
He had so much else on his hands at that time, it seems hard to think he would of just gone back so soon to just hang out and watch, with other loose ends going on.


But I had always thought that the receipt may have been in his home from a “previous” purchase to the crime. Or in Tina’s home?.

I wonder if he paid for those purchases with a credit card or check? If cash, I think it would only be an itemized listing of the purchases and the date. But if he used a credit card or check, there would be some sort of identification on the receipt..........credit card # with last 4 digits missing or check number/account number.

 

[Leila]

it was one of the local posters here that mentioned it... the one who knew about Tina taking care of an elderly lady's dogs iirc

Thanks nursebeeme! I remember now that you've jogged my memory. Yes, the local poster who mentioned that Tina took care of an elderly lady before she went into a nursing home, and at the time of all this happening, Tina was still looking after the elderly lady's dogs......going there several times a week to fill food bowls and water. That poster said that a neighbor would care for the dogs now. In passing, the poster mentioned Tina's home being ransacked, and I somehow think the ransacking took place fairly recently........a matter of months.

 

[Leila]

Interesting info from this article - could this friend be the one who made the suggestion about looking in a hollow tree on topix?

"Hoffman’s friend, who asked not to be named, said he was not surprised that the bodies of those snatched from Apple Valley were found inside the 65-foot-tall tree.

Early last week, the man told the sheriff’s office and The Dispatch that searchers should be looking up trees, in trees, follow the trees. The friend said Hoffman was a strategic thinker. He doubted that Hoffman just stumbled across the tree."

When I read that article, I thought of the Topix post. It sure does sound like CB.

 

[Leila]

Without going into specifics, early on I got the sense that there were family members of LM and GB posting on those forums. Every now and then it got too personal. Something said about LMs fathering skills here, something about GB being guilty there, saying mean things about TH etc. I don't remember seeing anything about SS, so it was as if those 2 sides had already been at odds for a while. They stuck out as more personal to me. So I now believe that Hopeful was connected to LM's side somehow.

After a while, I couldn't follow that forum closely. It got too off the wall, especially with the religious feuding.

Perhaps "Hopeful" was a member of the extended family or very close friend who had learned from family what was being discussed.

 

[Leila]

I think IF she wasn’t forced to send the message, because I’m not sure she was alive that long……..

It may have been Borders regular job as a household member, that HE regularly fed the dog.

He may of told everyone “don’t forget to feed the dog” , odd as it seems to forget to feed your pet, I do know people who have done that. As he was to be out of town on Wed. night.

I think it’s likely MH surprised Tina, and knowing what his final outcome would be. He did away with her quickly. Stephanie, came in a little later to go appt hunting, and MH then got her, and then the kids after the school bus.

I can’t see him keeping anyone alive long enough to have foiled his plans. JMO

We will never know a time line of death, unless MH coughs it up himself.
There is no way to determine it under the circumstances.

This is the way I see it too. I think Tina was alone when MH came to the house. He killed them one by one. That would explain why he didn't have to overcome four victims at once.

 

[Leila]

See that's what I don't get - her kids were what 13 and 11? My kids were staying at home after school much younger than these two were. Now, granted, I didn't work an evening job and was home by 6pm. I questioned the need for a babysitter for the 2 kids...but, if my home had been broken into and I had some freak in camoflauge sitting across from my house just staring at it, then I can understand.

What I really don't get and find odd is the text that she had fed the dog or whatever that was. If ex bf planned on not returning, then duh, you would have to feed the dog and that's a given. I don't get that one at all. I'd like to know more about the that.

Maybe, knowing that GB wouldn't be home that night, TH sent that text to reassure GB that the dog had been fed. He might have said something like, "don't forget to feed the dog before you go to work" and she was responding to that.

 

[peel]

"I fed the dog" could have been a swipe at her ex bf...maybe they quarrlled over the dog and feeding the dog was an issue....just thinking out loud....

 

[peeples]

"I fed the dog" could have been a swipe at her ex bf...maybe they quarrlled over the dog and feeding the dog was an issue....just thinking out loud....

That is a real possiblity too! I'm passive aggressive like that sometimes LOL!!

 

[passionflower]

OH - Fnd Dec'd Herrman, Maynard, Sprang 11.10.2010 - 13 year old rescued #8 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I had a thread going for other victims of Mathew Hoffman, but it was moved to be in this thread, I think.
It was in the parking lot.
Maybe it will open again.
Many have messaged me about it.
Seems it is merged in here.
I am sorry, I tried.

 

[passionflower]

I wonder if he paid for those purchases with a credit card or check? If cash, I think it would only be an itemized listing of the purchases and the date. But if he used a credit card or check, there would be some sort of identification on the receipt..........credit card # with last 4 digits missing or check number/account number.

When I purchase something at our walmart by check, the check is given back to me in the receipt.

 

[passionflower]

Could "I fed the dog" be a code between them????