GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #8

[cluciano63]

I'd prefer to think he insane, persnally, even if not legally so. I hate thinking he isn't insane and could do what he did.

 

[Java]

I think IF she wasn’t forced to send the message, because I’m not sure she was alive that long……..

It may have been Borders regular job as a household member, that HE regularly fed the dog.

He may of told everyone “don’t forget to feed the dog” , odd as it seems to forget to feed your pet, I do know people who have done that. As he was to be out of town on Wed. night.

I think it’s likely MH surprised Tina, and knowing what his final outcome would be. He did away with her quickly. Stephanie, came in a little later to go appt hunting, and MH then got her, and then the kids after the school bus.

I can’t see him keeping anyone alive long enough to have foiled his plans. JMO

We will never know a time line of death, unless MH coughs it up himself.
There is no way to determine it under the circumstances.

 

[SailorMoon]

Earlier in this thread, someone said that Tina was supposed to be at work at 4 pm. Did the children stay at home alone after school? BF worked until 4 pm or so at his job. This does make me wonder if Stephanie was going to stay with Sarah and Kody while Tina was at work, since the BF was not staying at the house that evening.

If Sarah and Kody were often home alone after school, I would wonder why Hoffman didn't wait until no adults were there to take Sarah, if that was his agenda.

See that's what I don't get - her kids were what 13 and 11? My kids were staying at home after school much younger than these two were. Now, granted, I didn't work an evening job and was home by 6pm. I questioned the need for a babysitter for the 2 kids...but, if my home had been broken into and I had some freak in camoflauge sitting across from my house just staring at it, then I can understand.

What I really don't get and find odd is the text that she had fed the dog or whatever that was. If ex bf planned on not returning, then duh, you would have to feed the dog and that's a given. I don't get that one at all. I'd like to know more about the that.

 

[SewingDeb]

Maybe she was trying to get her ex bf to think something was wrong and come check on things? Or maybe MH actually sent the text just to see what kind of response would come back.

 

[MCDRAW]

I'd prefer to think he insane, persnally, even if not legally so. I hate thinking he isn't insane and could do what he did.

It would make me feel better too. I just think there are some people that are so evil, cold, and calculating that we will never understand why they are the way they are so we label them to make ourselves feel a little safer.JMO

 

[gxm]

(respectfully snipped)
I can’t see him keeping anyone alive long enough to have foiled his plans. JMO

We will never know a time line of death, unless MH coughs it up himself.
There is no way to determine it under the circumstances.

I agree. I don't think he overpowered all four at the same time. I think he attacked his victims as they arrived to the home.

 

[gxm]

2 Comments- I still don't find Catfish Billies comments weird or suspicious,beeches being hollow like that is common knowledge -any guy who's been up in trees for trimming or hunting knows about these holes up top that lead into the hollow trunk.Saying"if he was smart"was a major faux pas-but don't forget most of us on WS talk about this kind of stuff alot and are very careful to never give criminals "credit".Secondly, like the final comment in the article cited about 5 posts back,made by MH's "friend" about him(MH)liking all this attention etc..I have felt that he revealed the bodies location to get "recognition" for his "genius" in finding this obscure hiding place.Even the sheriff admits the bodies would likely have never been found.

It was the "smart" comment that really sent my hinky meter off. Gruesome, yes. Smart, nope. Stupid. IMO, only a sick criminal mind is so obsessed with his perverse pursuit(s) that he would do something as stupid as MH. The evidence left by MH shows someone who was only "organized" when it came to enacting horrific violence. He had no "smarts" whatsoever.

The bodies were found precisely because this "genius" (sick freak that he is) left so much of an evidence trail.

 

[antiquegirl]

What I really don't get and find odd is the text that she had fed the dog or whatever that was. If ex bf planned on not returning, then duh, you would have to feed the dog and that's a given. I don't get that one at all. I'd like to know more about the that.

(RSBM)

I posted about this last night, wondering about this text. Even if the dog had been fed before 11:30 a.m., wouldn't he need feeding again by at least that evening? (I'm a cat owner and not sure how often dogs get fed.) Even so, the kids were supposed to be home by late afternoon and could have fed the dog again.

All I can think of is that GB was supposed to come home that day and then changed his mind and stayed overnight, although even that doesn't make too much sense unless the dog was only fed once-a-day. If he made a last-minute decision not to return home on Wednesday, wouldn't he have texted TH to tell her that? If he did, and she didn't answer, that could be one way for LE to pinpoint when she stopped answering texts.

JMO

 

[peeples]

We feed twice a day, but I know a lot of people who only feed once a day.

 

[tfrohning]

(RSBM)

I posted about this last night, wondering about this text. Even if the dog had been fed before 11:30 a.m., wouldn't he need feeding again by at least that evening? (I'm a cat owner and not sure how often dogs get fed.) Even so, the kids were supposed to be home by late afternoon and could have fed the dog again.

All I can think of is that GB was supposed to come home that day and then changed his mind and stayed overnight, although even that doesn't make too much sense unless the dog was only fed once-a-day. If he made a last-minute decision not to return home on Wednesday, wouldn't he have texted TH to tell her that? If he did, and she didn't answer, that could be one way for LE to pinpoint when she stopped answering texts.

JMO

IMO Tanner was the kids pet. So it woul be weird if she text I feed your dog. He would thought that hinky...J/S

 

[VicVixvi]

I think Hoffman had some wicked fantasy for years - and perfected his plan, obsessing on it - then acted on it when he had nothing left to lose.

I tend to agree with you, Texas Mist. I would speculate (are we allowed to do that here ... sorry, newbie...??) that MH started out as a peeping tom as a teenager. This would fit the 'development pattern' of a sexual deviant. MH moved to the AV area in '97 and we know from local court records that SS lived there as early as 1996. Perhaps this went back as far as him watching SS when he was a teenager. Once he returned to the area from Colorado, moved back in with Mom/step-Dad and went back to his old peeping victim who happens to have a new friend with a young daughter who lives 5 or 6 houses up the road.

He watched (perhaps from trees) for several years. This was all one big fantasy for MH down to the littlest details. Did he find out that TH & family were about to lose their house and was driven to act out his fantasy before the opportunity was gone?

I doubt he ever fantasized that he would drop a Walmart receipt.

Again, if this is too much speculation, please feel free to remove.

 

[peeples]

IMO Tanner was the kids pet. So it woul be weird if she text I feed your dog. He would thought that hinky...J/S

I do animal rescue and have had a lot of pets. Even though almost all animals orginally start as a pet for the kids, they almost always bond to an adult member of the household and care for the pet also fulls to the adult sno matter how much the kids crow Ohh we'll feed and walk etc etc LOL. tanner may have took to him and he was intending to take him with him.
My ex husband i posted about earlier, i had a dog way before i met him, however the dog ended up falling in love with the ex and when we divorced I sent the dog with him as he was older getting cranky, the kids were not able to interact with him much more, he definately did better as a single man's dog vs. a family dog.
Just some t houghts

 

[Noway]

Thanks for posting this great map. I'm wondering if one more place could be added. Where is the local WalMart? (I'm presuming there's just one nearby and that's probably where the receipt came from.)
TIA

Sorry took me so long to respond. Had computer problems and just gave up trying to get online.

I had read that the WalMart was in the same parking lot as the DQ and found this. I just didn't know whether they had more than one DQ.

Also, I don't know who the WS member was that created this map. It was posted on another site, and the person there said "This was created by a WS member" ...

If anyone knows, please let us know ... I have referred to this map over and over, and the creator deserves thanks!

 

[Ronso]

The Walmart is directly across the street from the DQ, not in the same parking lot.

 

[snapdragon]

I was looking for very recent articles re: this case, and was reading this one:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/20/bodies-missing-ohio-family-intact-friend-says/

And in the text of the article, saw this, referring to Ogle, the ME who did the autopsy:

They died sometime on Nov. 11 and there were no signs of sexual assault, she said.

Do you all think this is a misprint or accurate? I could not locate the actual ME transcripts. But if this is correct, Nov 11 was THURSDAY, she didn't show up for work at 4pm WEDNESDAY. This would indicate that he held them until sometime after midnight on Wed?

 

[peel]

well isn't evil giving in to every horrible thought one could ever have?....no doubt he is an abnormal person....but there's lots of abnormal people that get along in this world without violence or hate ......we all know people like that.....but what makes an abnormal person turn murderous?......evil....pure evil.....its like a fight between choosing God or choosing Satan.....and they choose Satan....(oh that religious stuff again)

 

[Wondergirl]

A few snips here, regarding more details from MH's past.

BBM: I would like to know what area he drove trucks in?

After moving to Apple Valley, Hoffman attended East Knox High School, graduating in 1999, while studying industrial electricity at the Knox County Career Center.

Hoffman struggled to find work, signing on a while as a truck driver and sometimes staying with his mother, Patricia Hedglin, in Apple Valley, about a third of a mile from where the two children and two women vanished Nov. 10.

The friend described Hoffman as a tightwad, reluctant to spend what little cash he had. He took a big plunge in late 2009, getting a loan to buy his deteriorating house at 49 Columbus Rd. for $37,500.

A friend described him as intelligent but without a lick of common sense; a man who was physically strong at 6-foot-1 and 185 pounds and imbued with a personality that embraced risk.

He was the type to catch a squirrel in his attic, clean it, fry it and eat it.

Hoffman would turn back flips off picnic tables without prompting and once strung a tow strap between two trees in his backyard and repeatedly tried to cross it like a tightrope walker.

During a parade once, he dashed from the curb and ran back and forth beneath the undercarriage of a giant moving truck as others watched in disbelief.

And the trees. There always were trees in Hoffman’s life. He built a tree house as a teenager. He climbed trees for both his avocation and recreation.

He even would climb a tree in his yard and peer at his neighbors, one of whom described him as a “real weirdo.” Neighborhood kids would join Hoffman in swinging from ropes he tied in the trees.

In search of taller conquests, the friend said, Hoffman would tell tales of clambering up trees throughout Knox County with his tree-climbing gear.

He knew the woods and remote spots of Knox County well. In the months before buying his 109-year-old house on Columbus Road, he was a nomad, living out of his car and pitching a tent in secretive spots amid the trees.

On Thursday, the bodies of Tina Herrmann; her 11-year-old son, Kody Maynard; and family friend Stephanie Sprang were pulled from a hollow beech at the Kokosing Lake Wildlife Area north of Fredericktown.

Hoffman’s friend, who asked not to be named, said he was not surprised that the bodies of those snatched from Apple Valley were found inside the 65-foot-tall tree.
Early last week, the man told the sheriff’s office and The Dispatch that searchers should be looking up trees, in trees, follow the trees. The friend said Hoffman was a strategic thinker. He doubted that Hoffman just stumbled across the tree.

Matthew John Hoffman is the son of Robert and Patricia Hoffman. He grew up in the Warren area, moving with his mother to Knox County in 1997 when his parents divorced.

Hoffman’s friend never saw it coming.

“The guy was kind of off, a little weird, but I chalked a lot of it up to being in prison,” the friend said. He never knew Hoffman to be violent. As an outdoorsman, he had knifes, but the friend never knew him to have a gun.

“I can’t fathom him killing anyone. But, something had to snap ... maybe he’s living in a fantasy world, stuck in his imagination? I sense he is happy with the outcome, that he caused turmoil and is infamous.”

 

[C.Hound]

I was looking for very recent articles re: this case, and was reading this one:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/20/bodies-missing-ohio-family-intact-friend-says/

And in the text of the article, saw this, referring to Ogle, the ME who did the autopsy:

They died sometime on Nov. 11 and there were no signs of sexual assault, she said.

Do you all think this is a misprint or accurate? I could not locate the actual ME transcripts. But if this is correct, Nov 11 was THURSDAY, she didn't show up for work at 4pm WEDNESDAY. This would indicate that he held them until sometime after midnight on Wed?

It's Fox's continued push to provide inaccurate information.

"On Wednesday, Nov. 10, all three were attacked with a knife and stabbed multiple times in the back and chest causing fatal exsanguination of blood from their chest cavities. Smaller non-fatal wounds were also noted. Pending further tests, there were no signs of sexual assault. Sometime after death, the bodies were dismembered. They were then placed inside large plastic garbage bags and later lowered into the hollow of a large tree. The location of the deaths is pending further test,." Ogle said.

http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local/10/11/20/ogle-releases-preliminary-autopsy-report

 

[peel]

My ex husband i posted about earlier, i had a dog way before i met him, however the dog ended up falling in love with the ex and when we divorced I sent the dog with him as he was older getting cranky, the kids were not able to interact with him much more, he definately did better as a single man's dog vs. a family dog.
Just some t houghts [/QUOTE]

even in this horrible story, I find your post amusing....."as he was older getting cranky"....and I thought...does she mean her ex husband?

 

[Wondergirl]

I was looking for very recent articles re: this case, and was reading this one:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/20/bodies-missing-ohio-family-intact-friend-says/

And in the text of the article, saw this, referring to Ogle, the ME who did the autopsy:

They died sometime on Nov. 11 and there were no signs of sexual assault, she said.

Do you all think this is a misprint or accurate? I could not locate the actual ME transcripts. But if this is correct, Nov 11 was THURSDAY, she didn't show up for work at 4pm WEDNESDAY. This would indicate that he held them until sometime after midnight on Wed?

Well, Snap, we can only go by what has been released so far. Stephanie Sprang's Obituary reads November 10, 2010 as her date of death.

Stephanie L. Sprang

November 01, 1969 ~ November 10, 2010

http://www.snyderfuneralhomes.com/obituaries/obit_view.phtml?id=10114

Mount Vernon News issued the following statement from Dr. Jennifer Ogle:

"On Wednesday, Nov. 10, all three were attacked with a knife and stabbed multiple times in the back and chest causing fatal exsanguination of blood from their chest cavities. Smaller non-fatal wounds were also noted. Pending further tests, there were no signs of sexual assault. Sometime after death, the bodies were dismembered. They were then placed inside large plastic garbage bags and later lowered into the hollow of a large tree. The location of the deaths is pending further test,." Ogle said.

http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local/10/11/20/ogle-releases-preliminary-autopsy-report