Does Bundy not understand that there is nothing the local sherriff can do? This is federal land and most if not all of the charges will be federal charges. Bundy go home.
OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #1
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How about the workers?
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...ce-on-armed-occupation/#.VqIOWfhxqak.facebook
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http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...ce-on-armed-occupation/#.VqIOWfhxqak.facebook
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Fairy1
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How ironic for them to claim the FBI is overreaching their power when they are clearly guilty of the same.
Fairy1
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Awful. Wonder if the employees that have been threatened can bring a civil suit against the Bundys. That would keep them tied up for a while.
LaborDayRN
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Thanks for posting this article. Interesting read. I think it's important to remember the people who's lives are being disrupted by this. They really need to stop this foolishness.
I wish the media would stop using the term "militia leader." Bundy is nothing of the sort. He's an attention-grabbing, law-breaking egotistical, delusional malcontent dreaming of revolution who waltzed onto federal property and Native -American sacred land to take over a gift shop, and who was accompanied by a small rag-tag bunch of bozos who rely on the federal government for income and who are too obtuse or too stupid or too caught up in their own delusions to understand the ironies.
Go home, all of you. The revolution will not be televised.
IzzyBlanche
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I am not disagreeing with anything you said.
However, assuming your read between the lines is correct, this is the first time I can recall seeing negotiating with terrorists being justified for fear of creating more terrorists by doing otherwise.
I am thoroughly disgusted with the coddling LE is giving these lawbreakers. Negotiating, pfft.
It seems to me the coddling is more likely to create more terrorists who will use it as evidence they can get away with the same, or worse, than putting a swift stop to it ever would.
And on a different subject, the terrorists' potentially destroying historical artifacts is no different from ISIS destroying historical landmarks, in my opinion.
I think there are plenty of options in between LE going in guns blazing and allowing these clowns to drive around in town gift and grocery shopping with shotguns strapped to their strutting chests.
As in..block all roads going into the refuge and shut off their power. As LE said they would do...what, 2 weeks ago?
From what I read there were no negotiations. FBI did talk to Bundy, but right off the FBI said no to Bundy and he walked. Went straight to the sherriff to tell his sad story.
I do agree with you that there should be no negotiations period. Heck at this point if anything happens to Bundy brother and company I will feel that they got exactly what they were asking for. Even the women at the camp. If anything happens to a child there IMO the blood will be on the parents hands not law enforcement.
I also agree that if they are destroying artifacts it is comparable to ISIS. I just cannot put them in the same league as ISIS. IMO if they acted like ISIS they would of taken over the town of Burn and most if not all of the people there would of been dead after the first day. IMO
I don't understand why they get to come and go intimidating the residents of Burn. I don't get it.
Okay, if you remember the last episode left off with the FBI denying their chit chat to be filmed by Bundy cameras (and other legitimate press cameras) so we saw Bundy traipsing off to talk with the sheriff.
From:
Oregon standoff negotiations stumble as occupation leader questions FBI authority
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_negotiations_s.html
That didn't stop Bundy from arriving at the Harney County Courthouse to talk to Ward. Instead, he was left to talk at a security checkpoint with Ward's No. 2, Lt. Brian Needham, who was accompanied by Malheur County Sheriff Brian Wolfe.
Bundy, speaking with an intensity unusual given his typical mild demeanor, insisted on knowing if the FBI had gotten permission to operate in the county. He kept pressing when the sheriff's lieutenant said local and federal authorities were working together.
When Needham said the FBI did have the sheriff's authority, Bundy demanded to see it in writing. He was told no.
A taut-faced Bundy walked away from the encounter and uncharacteristically snapped at a reporter's question: "Don't put words in my mouth."
Asked what his next steps would be, he said he was going back to the refuge to work.
Bundy, speaking with an intensity unusual given his typical mild demeanor, insisted on knowing if the FBI had gotten permission to operate in the county. He kept pressing when the sheriff's lieutenant said local and federal authorities were working together.
When Needham said the FBI did have the sheriff's authority, Bundy demanded to see it in writing. He was told no.
A taut-faced Bundy walked away from the encounter and uncharacteristically snapped at a reporter's question: "Don't put words in my mouth."
Asked what his next steps would be, he said he was going back to the refuge to work.
From:
Oregon standoff negotiations stumble as occupation leader questions FBI authority
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_negotiations_s.html
bluesneakers
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I think the anger will only make him stronger.
bluesneakers
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He is really used to getting his way. Imagine being married to him or having him as your father. Yikes.
Lilibet
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Thanks for your replies. I don't really disagree with either one of you. But I didn't say that negotiating with terrorists is justified. I haven't commented on the "negotiations." I'm just saying that a measured response is wiser than a confrontational one in this situation. I get the emotions, but I prefer that the government not react based on emotions such as frustration, indignation, etc. I prefer the government to take enough time to do it right. Quite honestly, I think the government is in between a rock and a hard place in how they deal with these people, so there may not be a "right" way. (See links below)
As I've said from the beginning of the thread, there is much more dangerous stuff going on with these people than the average person is aware of. The only reason I know about it is that I had reason to research this in the case of Stephanie Warner's suspected murderer. I'm glad to see that this illegal occupation is creating more awareness.
Here's a government report from the DHS in 2009.
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/def...es/downloads/resource/DOJ_rwextremism2009.pdf
Here is the very dangerous Oath Keepers' warning to the government. Their rhetoric is alarming, but they have not supported the Bundys in Burns, and they see the potential for another Waco starting a civil war. On that I don't disagree with them.
https://www.oathkeepers.org/critica...n-in-oregon-or-you-risk-starting-a-civil-war/
As I've said from the beginning of the thread, there is much more dangerous stuff going on with these people than the average person is aware of. The only reason I know about it is that I had reason to research this in the case of Stephanie Warner's suspected murderer. I'm glad to see that this illegal occupation is creating more awareness.
Here's a government report from the DHS in 2009.
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/def...es/downloads/resource/DOJ_rwextremism2009.pdf
Here is the very dangerous Oath Keepers' warning to the government. Their rhetoric is alarming, but they have not supported the Bundys in Burns, and they see the potential for another Waco starting a civil war. On that I don't disagree with them.
https://www.oathkeepers.org/critica...n-in-oregon-or-you-risk-starting-a-civil-war/
Fairy1
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Since these fellows fail to recognize the authority of the authorities, here's my plan:
We put together our own militia made up entirely of actual Constitutional experts, (armed only with certified copies of the Constitution), dispatch them immediately to the refuge where they will question the authority of the Bundy's band of buffoons, inform them their reign is over and send them on their way.
We put together our own militia made up entirely of actual Constitutional experts, (armed only with certified copies of the Constitution), dispatch them immediately to the refuge where they will question the authority of the Bundy's band of buffoons, inform them their reign is over and send them on their way.
This is ominous:
How Militants May "Indict" Non-Believers
by Geoff Norcross and John Sepulvado OPB | Jan. 22, 2016 8:42 a.m. | Updated: Jan. 22, 2016 3:20 p.m.
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...on-burns-bundy-militia-grand-jury-occupation/
Gotta read it!
Also, at 4 pm today, there is some ceremony scheduled where a couple of ranchers are going to tell the Feds to stuff their grazing rights.
How Militants May "Indict" Non-Believers
by Geoff Norcross and John Sepulvado OPB | Jan. 22, 2016 8:42 a.m. | Updated: Jan. 22, 2016 3:20 p.m.
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...on-burns-bundy-militia-grand-jury-occupation/
The FBI has begun negotiations with militants at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, specifically with militant leader Ammon Bundy.
Guards at the occupied refuge are now openly carrying assault rifles on the grounds, while men drive federally owned bulldozers to pave roads. More people are coming too from Cleveland, San Diego, and right here in Oregon.
These new recruits are joining a culture increasingly hostile to people who disagree with their beliefs. And now, they want to try and convict those people.
Its called a Citizens Grand Jury and to explain how it works, OPBs John Sepulvado, reporting from Burns, joined Morning Edition host Geoff Norcross for a Q&A about the newest development inside the Oregon occupation.
Guards at the occupied refuge are now openly carrying assault rifles on the grounds, while men drive federally owned bulldozers to pave roads. More people are coming too from Cleveland, San Diego, and right here in Oregon.
These new recruits are joining a culture increasingly hostile to people who disagree with their beliefs. And now, they want to try and convict those people.
Its called a Citizens Grand Jury and to explain how it works, OPBs John Sepulvado, reporting from Burns, joined Morning Edition host Geoff Norcross for a Q&A about the newest development inside the Oregon occupation.
Gotta read it!
Also, at 4 pm today, there is some ceremony scheduled where a couple of ranchers are going to tell the Feds to stuff their grazing rights.
Fairy1
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Very enlightening, Lilibet - and scary. I agree, LE on the scene is well aware of the more dangerous members of the occupation and must consider how far south things really could go. There are several men at that refuge who have no interest whatsoever in the grazing issue but it seems any cause will do when you have an itchy trigger finger and fancy a wild-west type shootout with the law.
Lilibet
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BBM
Yes, this is a must read! I'm sure people poked fun at the Taliban and ISIS/ISIL and didn't take them seriously at the beginning. Even though these Burns extremists seem ludicrous, they are not a joke. I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but they are extremely dangerous.
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