Found Deceased PA - Linda Stoltzfoos, 18, Bird-in-Hand, Lancaster County, 21 June 2020 *arrest* #2

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Wildthing3 said:
The following is just IMO...
I've read through most of the posts and have been following this for a couple of weeks. Note, this is about 40 minutes from where I live.

The "Harvest Drive" issue keeps coming up, and my thinking is a little different than what I've been reading here, so I thought I'd post how I'm seeing it. What if he initially drove past the Harvest Drive location with the intention of ditching the clothing, but couldn't, because someone was there? What if he simply went back later to do it later when no one was around?

Why did he just bury the bra and stockings? What about the rest of her stuff, or even her? From what I read, she took her stockings and bra off prior to leaving for home. According to her family she knotted them up to keep them together. They were still "knotted up" and it sounds like this was something she habitually did, not something HE did.

Now what if Smoker did what ever he did with her and then later realized that SHE had left her stockings and bra in his car? Maybe she hid them under the seat as "evidence" and he realized it later (possibly when cleaning or vacuuming the car to get rid of evidence?) and had to ditch them somewhere?

Remember, she did not wave back at the Amish that waved at her as is customary, even if they don't know each other. Was that her "signaling" that there was something wrong? To me, it shows she had the presence of mind to communicate in her own way that she was in trouble. So, could she have hidden the bra and stockings to leave evidence?

Again, I want to emphasize this is all IMO.

Smoke seems to be somewhat limited in his travels. He didn't go very far to kidnap his victim. He didn't travel very far to dispose of her bra and stockings. The time frame between abducting Linda and passing Harvest Drive is a very short one, only about 15 minutes, but cell phone records show he was in the "general area" of Harvest Drive on 6/21 between approx 2:30 and 3:30 pm. Just 2-3 hours after abduction LS.
Did he actually have time to drive to Welsh Mountain, do what ever he did to her, drive back, go to vicinity of Harvest Drive all in a time span of a couple of hours? Maybe, but why would he go all of the way up there?

One last thing, the arrest report states that a witness saw JS at Harvest Drive on 6/23. He called the police. He also looked in JS's car AND TOOK PICTURES. What was in there that prompted the witness to take pictures. The police arrived after JS left. The witness showed the police the pictures. Yet the bra and stockings were not actually discovered there until 7/10. IMO...This part does not .make sense at all!
Click to expand...
Linda Stoltzfoos was seen in JS car with him in the Gap area. I think after the abduction, assault took place in Gap. Hope that helps.
 
Wildthing3 said:
The following is just IMO...
I've read through most of the posts and have been following this for a couple of weeks. Note, this is about 40 minutes from where I live.

The "Harvest Drive" issue keeps coming up, and my thinking is a little different than what I've been reading here, so I thought I'd post how I'm seeing it. What if he initially drove past the Harvest Drive location with the intention of ditching the clothing, but couldn't, because someone was there? What if he simply went back later to do it later when no one was around?

Why did he just bury the bra and stockings? What about the rest of her stuff, or even her? From what I read, she took her stockings and bra off prior to leaving for home. According to her family she knotted them up to keep them together. They were still "knotted up" and it sounds like this was something she habitually did, not something HE did.

Now what if Smoker did what ever he did with her and then later realized that SHE had left her stockings and bra in his car? Maybe she hid them under the seat as "evidence" and he realized it later (possibly when cleaning or vacuuming the car to get rid of evidence?) and had to ditch them somewhere?

Remember, she did not wave back at the Amish that waved at her as is customary, even if they don't know each other. Was that her "signaling" that there was something wrong? To me, it shows she had the presence of mind to communicate in her own way that she was in trouble. So, could she have hidden the bra and stockings to leave evidence?

Again, I want to emphasize this is all IMO.

Smoke seems to be somewhat limited in his travels. He didn't go very far to kidnap his victim. He didn't travel very far to dispose of her bra and stockings. The time frame between abducting Linda and passing Harvest Drive is a very short one, only about 15 minutes, but cell phone records show he was in the "general area" of Harvest Drive on 6/21 between approx 2:30 and 3:30 pm. Just 2-3 hours after abduction LS.
Did he actually have time to drive to Welsh Mountain, do what ever he did to her, drive back, go to vicinity of Harvest Drive all in a time span of a couple of hours? Maybe, but why would he go all of the way up there?

One last thing, the arrest report states that a witness saw JS at Harvest Drive on 6/23. He called the police. He also looked in JS's car AND TOOK PICTURES. What was in there that prompted the witness to take pictures. The police arrived after JS left. The witness showed the police the pictures. Yet the bra and stockings were not actually discovered there until 7/10. IMO...This part does not make sense at all!
Click to expand...

Good points, if I remember rightly LS was abducted 12.42? (not too sure now), the drive to Welsh Mountain area (Nature Reserve) would take 20 or so minutes making it roughly 1pm ish? That would give around, at least, 60 mins in Welsh Mountain Area before being in the general area of Harvest Drive for between 2.30pm - 3.30pm - is that a reasonable time frame to either hand LS to someone else, harm her - really do not want to write the other outcome- its unbearable
 
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Wildthing3 said:
The following is just IMO...
I've read through most of the posts and have been following this for a couple of weeks. Note, this is about 40 minutes from where I live.

The "Harvest Drive" issue keeps coming up, and my thinking is a little different than what I've been reading here, so I thought I'd post how I'm seeing it. What if he initially drove past the Harvest Drive location with the intention of ditching the clothing, but couldn't, because someone was there? What if he simply went back later to do it later when no one was around?

Why did he just bury the bra and stockings? What about the rest of her stuff, or even her? <modsnip>

Now what if Smoker did what ever he did with her and then later realized that SHE had left her stockings and bra in his car? Maybe she hid them under the seat as "evidence" and he realized it later (possibly when cleaning or vacuuming the car to get rid of evidence?) and had to ditch them somewhere?

Remember, she did not wave back at the Amish that waved at her as is customary, even if they don't know each other. Was that her "signaling" that there was something wrong? To me, it shows she had the presence of mind to communicate in her own way that she was in trouble. So, could she have hidden the bra and stockings to leave evidence?

Again, I want to emphasize this is all IMO.

Smoke seems to be somewhat limited in his travels. He didn't go very far to kidnap his victim. He didn't travel very far to dispose of her bra and stockings. The time frame between abducting Linda and passing Harvest Drive is a very short one, only about 15 minutes, but cell phone records show he was in the "general area" of Harvest Drive on 6/21 between approx 2:30 and 3:30 pm. Just 2-3 hours after abduction LS.
Did he actually have time to drive to Welsh Mountain, do what ever he did to her, drive back, go to vicinity of Harvest Drive all in a time span of a couple of hours? Maybe, but why would he go all of the way up there?

One last thing, the arrest report states that a witness saw JS at Harvest Drive on 6/23. He called the police. He also looked in JS's car AND TOOK PICTURES. What was in there that prompted the witness to take pictures. The police arrived after JS left. The witness showed the police the pictures. Yet the bra and stockings were not actually discovered there until 7/10. IMO...This part does not make sense at all!
Click to expand...
Good thinking.
<modsnip>
He may very well have gone to the Harvest Drive location and someone was there, so he returned after. But why? I would think there would be many other places to bury the bra and stockings. I mentioned the connection between his work, home and the Harvest Dr. location, being RR tracks where he may have wanted to return for his trophies, if that's what they meant to him, but outside of that, I wonder why he was so bent on burying them there.
 
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wishBones1962 said:
I too thought I had read she was carrying her "shoes & stockings"...not bra and stockings. MOO
Click to expand...
Me too wishBones1962, just carrying shoes and stockings and walking barefoot. Removing bra before she left for church, did I read that right ? It doesn't sound right. Why even wear one ? Maybe after assault, bra and stockings were tied together.
 
Curiosity1234 said:
Me too wishBones1962, just carrying shoes and stockings and walking barefoot. Removing bra before she left for church, did I read that right ? It doesn't sound right. Why even wear one ? Maybe after assault, bra and stockings were tied together.
Click to expand...

That makes sense
 
Curiosity1234 said:
Me too wishBones1962, just carrying shoes and stockings and walking barefoot. Removing bra before she left for church, did I read that right ? It doesn't sound right. Why even wear one ? Maybe after assault, bra and stockings were tied together.
Click to expand...
Okay I misread it. Says she took bra off after church. I only know she was walking with stockings tied in a knot and shoes.
 
realanastasia said:
Where, exactly, is the MSM source that states Linda removed her bra after church? I have read nothing so far that indicates this, nor does it sound in the least like something a very modest young woman would do if she intended to be seen in public afterwards (which she surely would have been, walking home after church).
Click to expand...

I don't think this did happen, but they did find bra and stockings buried together?
 
CuriousQuiet1 said:
Spitballing...a little disturbing so scroll along if that bothers you...
Would the town or the county contract with a medical waste service to dispose of animals? What happens to the deer, cats, dogs, fox, coyote, etc that get hit by cars? The Alpha Bio Med website says they offer veterinary disposal service. Is it possible there is a "drop-off" that the highway department or animal control uses to get rid of dead animals and it happens to be next door to JS at Sharps Compliance? Not officially medical waste so not tracked. He might be able to dispose of... I can't even write it.

If JS didn't do that I want royalties when someone writes a fictional book about it.
Click to expand...

Oh WOW!!! Right next door!!!!
 
Wildthing3 said:
The following is just IMO...
I've read through most of the posts and have been following this for a couple of weeks. Note, this is about 40 minutes from where I live.

The "Harvest Drive" issue keeps coming up, and my thinking is a little different than what I've been reading here, so I thought I'd post how I'm seeing it. What if he initially drove past the Harvest Drive location with the intention of ditching the clothing, but couldn't, because someone was there? What if he simply went back later to do it later when no one was around?

Why did he just bury the bra and stockings? What about the rest of her stuff, or even her? From what I read, she took her stockings and bra off prior to leaving for home. According to her family she knotted them up to keep them together. They were still "knotted up" and it sounds like this was something she habitually did, not something HE did.

Now what if Smoker did what ever he did with her and then later realized that SHE had left her stockings and bra in his car? Maybe she hid them under the seat as "evidence" and he realized it later (possibly when cleaning or vacuuming the car to get rid of evidence?) and had to ditch them somewhere?

Remember, she did not wave back at the Amish that waved at her as is customary, even if they don't know each other. Was that her "signaling" that there was something wrong? To me, it shows she had the presence of mind to communicate in her own way that she was in trouble. So, could she have hidden the bra and stockings to leave evidence?

Again, I want to emphasize this is all IMO.

Smoke seems to be somewhat limited in his travels. He didn't go very far to kidnap his victim. He didn't travel very far to dispose of her bra and stockings. The time frame between abducting Linda and passing Harvest Drive is a very short one, only about 15 minutes, but cell phone records show he was in the "general area" of Harvest Drive on 6/21 between approx 2:30 and 3:30 pm. Just 2-3 hours after abduction LS.
Did he actually have time to drive to Welsh Mountain, do what ever he did to her, drive back, go to vicinity of Harvest Drive all in a time span of a couple of hours? Maybe, but why would he go all of the way up there?

One last thing, the arrest report states that a witness saw JS at Harvest Drive on 6/23. He called the police. He also looked in JS's car AND TOOK PICTURES. What was in there that prompted the witness to take pictures. The police arrived after JS left. The witness showed the police the pictures. Yet the bra and stockings were not actually discovered there until 7/10. IMO...This part does not make sense at all!
Click to expand...

I think she regularly took her stockings off to walk where ever. I haven't heard anything about her taking her bra off. That would be very odd.
 
realanastasia said:
(Respectfully snipped and bolded by me)

Would you please point me to the mainstream media source where you read this? I can't imagine that she would remove her bra before walking home--the emphasis on modesty within the Amish community makes it very difficult to believe that a young woman would do such a thing if she knew she'd be seen by other people while walking home from church!
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing about Amish retaining old traditions, being reserved and modest.
 
Wildthing3 said:
The following is just IMO...
I've read through most of the posts and have been following this for a couple of weeks. Note, this is about 40 minutes from where I live.

The "Harvest Drive" issue keeps coming up, and my thinking is a little different than what I've been reading here, so I thought I'd post how I'm seeing it. What if he initially drove past the Harvest Drive location with the intention of ditching the clothing, but couldn't, because someone was there? What if he simply went back later to do it later when no one was around?

Why did he just bury the bra and stockings? What about the rest of her stuff, or even her? From what I read, she took her stockings and bra off prior to leaving for home. According to her family she knotted them up to keep them together. They were still "knotted up" and it sounds like this was something she habitually did, not something HE did.

Now what if Smoker did what ever he did with her and then later realized that SHE had left her stockings and bra in his car? Maybe she hid them under the seat as "evidence" and he realized it later (possibly when cleaning or vacuuming the car to get rid of evidence?) and had to ditch them somewhere?

Remember, she did not wave back at the Amish that waved at her as is customary, even if they don't know each other. Was that her "signaling" that there was something wrong? To me, it shows she had the presence of mind to communicate in her own way that she was in trouble. So, could she have hidden the bra and stockings to leave evidence?

Again, I want to emphasize this is all IMO.

Smoke seems to be somewhat limited in his travels. He didn't go very far to kidnap his victim. He didn't travel very far to dispose of her bra and stockings. The time frame between abducting Linda and passing Harvest Drive is a very short one, only about 15 minutes, but cell phone records show he was in the "general area" of Harvest Drive on 6/21 between approx 2:30 and 3:30 pm. Just 2-3 hours after abduction LS.
Did he actually have time to drive to Welsh Mountain, do what ever he did to her, drive back, go to vicinity of Harvest Drive all in a time span of a couple of hours? Maybe, but why would he go all of the way up there?

One last thing, the arrest report states that a witness saw JS at Harvest Drive on 6/23. He called the police. He also looked in JS's car AND TOOK PICTURES. What was in there that prompted the witness to take pictures. The police arrived after JS left. The witness showed the police the pictures. Yet the bra and stockings were not actually discovered there until 7/10. IMO...This part does not make sense at all!
Click to expand...
This entire analysis is perfect.
 
Curiosity1234 said:
I can't read it without subscription. Fiddlesticks.:(
Click to expand...
The meat of the article is not much:
"A district court appearance for the man accused of kidnapping missing woman Linda Stoltzfoos that was scheduled for this morning, Tuesday, July 21, has been postponed.

A new date for Justo Smoker's preliminary hearing hadn't been rescheduled as of Monday afternoon; it's not uncommon for the hearings to be rescheduled."

From my very limited experience I think JS got a public defender and the public defender simply asked for more time.

Court hearing postponed for man charged with kidnapping Linda Stoltzfoos, who is still missing
 
sds71 said:
doesn’t say why.
just that it’s been postponed with no new date and it’s not unusual.
Click to expand...
Interesting....
It's not unusual for a preliminary hearing to be postponed, however according to rule 542.(section G subsection C) the new date for the hearing has to be listed.
JS could waive the hearing, but if he does that, it goes to trial.
The prosecutor can't drag his/her feet for too long if it's that side that asked for the postponement, especially if JS has not been released on bail. If this happens, the judge can dismiss the case.

http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinions/Supreme/out/429crim-attach.pdf
 
Wildthing3 said:
It's in the arrest report, which cannot be "copy and pasted". It is not in an MSM report as far as I know.

Justo Smoker Charges
Click to expand...

Also, as a woman, I can tell you that many women do not like wearing bras. At 5'10" and 125 lbs she has very little body fat, so she was probably smallish in the breast area. They said her bra was a B cup. In addition, the Amish church dress has a blouse underneath and an apron-like dress that goes over top of the breasts. So being hot out, being smallish, and being pretty well covered up, I don't see an issue with it. But I don't think it's an issue in reading item # 21 of the police report. It doesn't seem like it is.
 
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