Found Deceased PA - Lindsey Piccone, 21, Tyler State Park, 6 Sept 2016

[ChuckMaureen]

Flores said the area where the body was found had been searched, but due to the high grass, the K-9s likely could not get a scent.

The location is basically an open field with high grass, no trees in field (only surrounding), easily accessed from the Dairy Hill Trail.

It appears LP walked across the bridge over Neshaminy Creek, then along the trail a brief distance to the open field and walked less than a football field's length in to the field.

The search teams failed. Outright failed. This is maddening.

"High grass" with no trees is not a valid excuse to not locate a body. Relying entirely on K-9 scenting is not adequate.

There should have been a fingertip-to-fingertip search of the entire width of the grass field.

This is not Monday-morning quarterbacking. This is realizing outright search failure.

LP's family was left to suffer much longer than necessary.


As far as I can tell, this is the location area in relation to where LP's vehicle was discovered (as based on the news article image included in steelman's post #478):

 

[Gardener1850]

Human Remains Found In Newtown's Tyler State Park


http://patch.com/pennsylvania/newtown-pa/human-remains-found-tyler-state-park

REMAINS BELIEVED TO BE OF MISSING BUCKS CO. WOMAN FOUND

http://6abc.com/news/remains-believed-to-be-of-missing-bucks-co-woman-found/1583903/


Police: Body found in Tyler State Park believed to be missing Bensalem woman

Police rope off the scene Nov.1, 2016



http://www.theintell.com/news/local...cle_30f98694-864c-596f-891a-a074461cc855.html

Sad news, but I always suspected she was in the park all along. Prayers for her family.

 

[steelman]

The location is basically an open field with high grass, no trees in field (only surrounding), easily accessed from the Dairy Hill Trail.

It appears LP walked across the bridge over Neshaminy Creek, then along the trail a brief distance to the open field and walked less than a football field's length in to the field.

The search teams failed. Outright failed. This is maddening.

"High grass" with no trees is not a valid excuse to not locate a body. Relying entirely on K-9 scenting is not adequate.

Should have been a fingertip-to-fingertip search of the entire width of the grass field.

This is not Monday-morning quarterbacking. This is realizing outright search failure.

LP's family was left to suffer much longer than necessary.


As far as I can tell, this is the location area in relation to where LP's vehicle was discovered (as based on the news article image included in steelman's post #478):

BBM

I've been pointing this out now for 3 years here on Websleuths. All I get is attacked when I dare criticize these ridiculous searches that yield no results. I think they have people running these searches that are afraid to get their feet wet, don't want to walk in tall grass because of the snakes, don't want to crawl through thick bushes because their arms will get scratched up, and the second it looks like it might rain, they call off the search and go running to the staging area as if they are all made from sugar. If my suspicions are correct, then why in the hell are they on a search crew ?? Why, because LE thinks they've got it all figured out. Sitting on the back of an $8000 ATV and running up and down dirt roads isn't going to find these suicide victims. They Hide. Learn people, learn.


See that <modsnip> in the picture right above this post ? .............that's who the hell is doing the searching. Any questions ?

 

[LisaWL7TR]

BBM

I've been pointing this out now for 3 years here on Websleuths. All I get is attacked when I dare criticize these ridiculous searches that yield no results. I think they have people running these searches that are afraid to get their feet wet, don't want to walk in tall grass because of the snakes, don't want to crawl through thick bushes because their arms will get scratched up, and the second it looks like it might rain, they call off the search and go running to the staging area as if they are all made from sugar. If my suspicions are correct, then why in the hell are they on a search crew ?? Why, because LE thinks they've got it all figured out. Sitting on the back of an $8000 ATV and running up and down dirt roads isn't going to find these suicide victims. They Hide. Learn people, learn.

I can see someone thinking...that she is a female she wouldn't go in that buggy, snakey, muddy area. Yes she would!!! She is choosing to end her life...she isn't worried about getting bit or dirty.






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[Elainera]

Rest in Peace Lindsey!

 

[steelman]

I can see someone thinking...that she is a female she wouldn't go in that buggy, snakey, muddy area. Yes she would!!! She is choosing to end her life...she isn't worried about getting bit or dirty.

Psst...Steelman...Tubby is still on the paved area.




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Right ..........throw away everything you think you know about searching..........and learn from your mistakes. That's what us laymen do, we learn from our mistakes.

Re-write the training manuals, put people in charge of the searches that plan on actually searching, including getting dirty, and exclude the "searchers" that enjoy walking through a clear field or riding around on an ATV while chit-chatting on a radio.

If that sounds like too much trouble............then ask the public to go out and search. The missing person will be located and recovered in about an hour or less................................but that's too easy and not dramatic enough is it ?.

 

[TMAN2014]

You know, I don't get why people in charge warn, threaten, discourage, and frown upon people who want to volunteer to search. I am perfectly fine with yielding and letting the experts do their job, and then you see something like this, where the person should have been found by an "expert search." It makes me wonder why they discourage people, who would be willing to dig a little bit. I would think they would encourage anyone willing to take part in a search. I never will get the "control thing" that goes on with authorities. Maybe if they were a little more encouraging to the public, LP would have been found earlier.

 

[LisaWL7TR]

Right ..........throw away everything you think you know about searching..........and learn from your mistakes. That's what us laymen do, we learn from our mistakes.

Re-write the training manuals, put people in charge of the searches that plan on actually searching, including getting dirty, and exclude the "searchers" that enjoy walking through a clear fields or riding around on an ATV's while chit-chatting on a radio.

Almost 2 months. Her poor family not knowing and holding out hope.

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[rotary_dial]

You know, I don't get why people in charge warn, threaten, discourage, and frown upon people who want to volunteer to search. I am perfectly fine with yielding and letting the experts do their job, and then you see something like this, where the person should have been found by an "expert search." It makes me wonder why they discourage people, who would be willing to dig a little bit. I would think they would encourage anyone willing to take part in a search. I never will get the "control thing" that goes on with authorities. Maybe if they were a little more encouraging to the public, LP would have been found earlier.

It is because of the litigious society we live in. If the authorities encourage people to search, and the searchers become injured, there's a chance they will sue.

I could go on, but I would break TOS and most likely offend those that walk on eggshells and engage in hero worship on this site.

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[Spider92]

....so very sorry for her family and friends. I'm sure this is doubly painful as many questions probably remain unanswered. It's got to be toughest for those who saw her last and I hope they find peace. Depression and suicide cannot be fully understood or prevented by even the most talented professionals and I hope her loved ones can someday recover from the unbearable pain they must feel.

 

[homefront]

I didn't want to be right, but adamantly felt they could NOT have adequately searched the park. Rest in peace, lovely girl.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

A different perspective of the discovery location in relation to where LP's vehicle was discovered:

 

[TTF14]

It is because of the litigious society we live in. If the authorities encourage people to search, and the searchers become injured, there's a chance they will sue.

I could go on, but I would break TOS and most likely offend those that walk on eggshells and engage in hero worship on this site.

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Hero worship???

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[TMAN2014]

It is because of the litigious society we live in. If the authorities encourage people to search, and the searchers become injured, there's a chance they will sue.

I could go on, but I would break TOS and most likely offend those that walk on eggshells and engage in hero worship on this site.

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Well, that's fine. I guess I was raised with different values and never considered your valid point. There has to be a way for common sense to prevail over lawyers in these cases. I mean really, you could organize a few small groups of well meaning people, sign some waivers, and get to business. The focus needs shift to what's important, finding the person, and the heck with all the self important , ego driven people.

 

[steelman]

Almost 2 months. Her poor family not knowing and holding out hope.

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I might view this differently if I had only seen it once or twice or even 3 times, but in the last 3 years here on Websleuths, I've watched this same scenario play itself out 50-60 times........and that's just the cases I was following. Sometimes it was a lost child, sometimes it was a suicide, sometimes a lost hiker. But it always played out the same.............we searched, we cleared the area, we're convinced the person is not here.

2 months later..........said person is found within 200 yards of where they were last seen or where they parked their car. How in the F does that happen ?

 

[steelman]

Hero worship???

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That would be people sanctioned by LE that are willing to go out and search, have taken ( 3) 4-hour classes at the local community college, have had 12 hours of LE training in a classroom , and are willing to walk in tall grass and risk getting their arms cut up by thorns and bushes. Hero's.

95% of the general public would do the same if asked......... AKA.... volunteers. No "formal" training. See the difference ?

The people running the search have had lots of classroom experience, plus longevity..............and..............um..............well, they just know a lot !

 

[Vail]

I do not belive in a million years that a trained cadaver dog was taken through that field and failed to scent her. Furthermore, I can't believe a trained searcher didn't take one look at that tall grass and think "bodies."because that is what goes through my mind everytime I see a field like that.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

To be fair, let's realize that even non-official, untrained volunteers also searched the park and found nothing.

But that doesn't make me feel any better regarding the "professional" search effort. In fact, it makes me feel worse.

It wasn't until a regular, normal course of business (mowing a field) led to the discovery.

Searchers in-the-field need to drop preconceived notions and view the landscape as a huge canvas made up of an infinite number of points which need to be viewed and / or touched.

Time and money; yes the two typical 'reasons' for defending non-productive searches... but in this, and in many other case: "the remains were discovered in a location previously searched".


Why are such efforts focused only on catastrophic emergencies? ----> http://www.publicsafety.ohio.gov/ohtf1/applicants/pdf/Search Team Manager - long.pdf

SAR drills, i.e." find the (mannequin w/added 'scent') body"?

How many times a year?

Certification renewals, w/retraining sign-offs?

So many solutions... we need a singular, nationally-coordinated association effort (not just FEMA/HLS).

Certainly there are enough missing persons cases every year that could justify such an effort?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I do not belive [sic] in a million years that a trained cadaver dog was taken through that field and failed to scent her. Furthermore, I can't believe a trained searcher didn't take one look at that tall grass and think "bodies."because that is what goes through my mind everytime [sic] I see a field like that.

One possibility is LP was not in that field until after K-9 and / or other searches.

Possible, but is it likely?

 

[LisaWL7TR]

I guess now we wait to hear what those that previous said the park was searched and cleared.

I do hope they will offer an apology to the family of Lindsey.

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