Found Deceased PA - Paul Kochu, 22, Allegheny County, 17 Dec 2014 - #2

[Kittybunny]

I agree that we are likely to hear about identification very quickly, but might not hear about COD any time soon, and if foul play is suspected, for a very long time if it's Paul and he was in the water this long. Given the "how intoxicated was he/could he have taken other things" questions, I can't imagine the Kochu's wouldn't want toxicology tests done, which in my experience following other cases, usually take at least 6-8 weeks. The question is, given the condition of the body, are they even valid at this point?

I just watched the noon news...nothing yet.

 

[Detective Klimpt]

Here's an article about shortage of pathologists in Charleston, W. Va.

http://www.wvgazette.com/article/20140713/GZ01/140719793

 

[Miss Muffet]

I can't imagine the Kochu's wouldn't want toxicology tests done, which in my experience following other cases, usually take at least 6-8 weeks.The question is, given the condition of the body, are they even valid at this point?

That's a good question. I found this article about putrefaction and toxicology.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...ple_storage_on_post-mortem_toxicology_results

Unrelated, I found these interesting UK articles about the difficulties in determining COD from bodies recovered from water.

http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/pathology/bodies-recovered-from-water/

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/forensics-water.html

 

[Miss Muffet]

Here's an article about shortage of pathologists in Charleston, W. Va.

http://www.wvgazette.com/article/20140713/GZ01/140719793

That's pathetic.

I was shocked when I read the Donofrio family couldn't get an explanation why it took a year because the medical examiner was on a leave of absence. I instantly wondered why wouldn't WV hire a temporary medical examiner?!?!

 

[Treelights]

That's pathetic.

I was shocked when I read the Donofrio family couldn't get an explanation why it took a year because the medical examiner was on a leave of absence. I instantly wondered why wouldn't WV hire a temporary medical examiner?!?!

"Does the state require that pathologists perform the autopsies?
Yes. [A]n autopsy shall be conducted by the chief medical examiner or his or her designee, by a member of his or her staff, or by a competent pathologist designated and employed by the chief medical examiner under the provisions of this article. For this purpose, the chief medical examiner may employ any county medical examiner who is a pathologist who holds board certification or board eligibility in forensic pathology or has completed an American Board of Pathology fellowship in forensic pathology to make the autopsies . . . W. Va. Code Ann. § 61-12-10."

http://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/coroner/westvirginia.html

 

[Miss Muffet]

"Does the state require that pathologists perform the autopsies?
Yes. [A]n autopsy shall be conducted by the chief medical examiner or his or her designee, by a member of his or her staff, or by a competent pathologist designated and employed by the chief medical examiner under the provisions of this article. For this purpose, the chief medical examiner may employ any county medical examiner who is a pathologist who holds board certification or board eligibility in forensic pathology or has completed an American Board of Pathology fellowship in forensic pathology to make the autopsies . . . W. Va. Code Ann. § 61-12-10."

http://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/coroner/westvirginia.html

Not sure how this is relevant to my wondering why they didn't hire a temporary to cover a leave of absence competently enough to simply provide an explanation about what happened.

It does validate the prior link I provided that states WV doesn't require autopsies to be performed by doctors. It sounds like WV allows non-doctors to perform autopsies under a doctor's supervision, which could be similar to a nurse anesthetist administering anesthesia without an anesthesiologist to ever be anywhere in the room, but just somewhere on the floor completely uninvolved in the procedures taking place.

 

[Treelights]

Not sure how this is relevant to my wondering why they didn't hire a temporary to cover a leave of absence competently enough to simply provide an explanation about what happened.

It does validate the prior link I provided that states WV doesn't require autopsies to be performed by doctors. It sounds like WV allows non-doctors to perform autopsies under a doctor's supervision, which could be similar to a nurse anesthetist administering anesthesia without an anesthesiologist to ever be anywhere in the room, but just somewhere on the floor completely uninvolved in the procedures taking place.

My post was showing who they could hire.
IMOO.

 

[wendybtn]

I just read that a paternity DNA test takes 2 days from the time the sample arrives at the lab.

Assuming you are willing to pay cash. When it is a third party payor, I'm pretty sure it takes longer.

 

[wendybtn]

I agree that we are likely to hear about identification very quickly, but might not hear about COD any time soon, and if foul play is suspected, for a very long time if it's Paul and he was in the water this long. Given the "how intoxicated was he/could he have taken other things" questions, I can't imagine the Kochu's wouldn't want toxicology tests done, which in my experience following other cases, usually take at least 6-8 weeks. The question is, given the condition of the body, are they even valid at this point?

I just watched the noon news...nothing yet.

If the death is suspicious, unexpected, or unattended, the autopsy is done, barring particular religious exceptions that are handled on a case-by-case basis. I believe what I read was that the Kochu' s are Lutheran. That religion has no particular barriers to autopsy or other medical procedures that I am aware.

 

[carbuff]

"Does the state require that pathologists perform the autopsies?
Yes. [A]n autopsy shall be conducted by the chief medical examiner or his or her designee, by a member of his or her staff, or by a competent pathologist designated and employed by the chief medical examiner under the provisions of this article. For this purpose, the chief medical examiner may employ any county medical examiner who is a pathologist who holds board certification or board eligibility in forensic pathology or has completed an American Board of Pathology fellowship in forensic pathology to make the autopsies . . . W. Va. Code Ann. § 61-12-10."

http://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/coroner/westvirginia.html

I read this as saying that an ME who is not a doctor certified in forensic pathology can't perform an autopsy.

 

[Detective Klimpt]

The Kochu's went to Pittsburgh today and put up more missing person flyers. Therefore, I assume they don't think those bodies are Paul. Do you guys agree?

 

[Treelights]

I read this as saying that an ME who is not a doctor certified in forensic pathology can't perform an autopsy.

And I read this to mean that if a pathologist performed the autopsy, then the pathologist would have to be certified, etc, in forensic pathology.
I read this to mean that the autopsy can be conducted by "the chief medical examiner, or his or her designee, by a member of his or her staff,
OR by a competent pathologist."
IMOO.
http://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/coroner/westvirginia.html

 

[Treelights]

The Kochu's went to Pittsburgh today and put up more missing person flyers. Therefore, I assume they don't think those bodies are Paul. Do you guys agree?

Maybe they feel being pro-active is the best way to be, incase the body is not Paul.
It is better to keep going and put up flyers just incase.
IMOO.

 

[Kittybunny]

The Kochu's went to Pittsburgh today and put up more missing person flyers. Therefore, I assume they don't think those bodies are Paul. Do you guys agree?

Hmmm, I don't know. Was it a stop through on the way to Charleston? If so, then I wouldn't read much into it. But maybe I'm letting my own personal feeling that this is Paul influence my opinion.

 

[Jillybean78]

Great to see you back Kittybunny!!

 

[Cricket99]

Pauls family has been in denial since day 1 so I am not surprised they are putting up flyers while they wait for an answer.

 

[Miss Muffet]

The Kochu's went to Pittsburgh today and put up more missing person flyers. Therefore, I assume they don't think those bodies are Paul. Do you guys agree?

I don't see it as any indication of that whatsoever. The Kochus are doing what I would do: Not stop seeking answers and continue any and all avenues until their son is found.

http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/8032371-74/kochu-body-pittsburgh#axzz3VS2uAIbG

 

[Miss Muffet]

I read this as saying that an ME who is not a doctor certified in forensic pathology can't perform an autopsy.

I disagree. It says OR, which means a member of the staff who isn't a doctor can perform autopsies.

I posted a link to another website that says WV allows non-physicians to perform autopsies.

It's a PBS link, not some random blog.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...gs-to-know/how-qualified-is-your-coroner.html

Here's the CDC's website stating the same thing.

http://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/coroner/death.html

I've discovered PA's requirements are even worse than WV, but there are some highly respected medical examiners in PA who are considered experts among their peers and throughout the country.

 

[Trackergd]

PA requires the prospective Coroner to take and pass a 32 hour class and exam. Most of the classes are provided by PSP. A Coroner, his/her Deputy and assistants must also take and pass yearly continuing education courses.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/037/chapter199/chap199toc.html

 

[OnTheBreeze]

The Kochu's went to Pittsburgh today and put up more missing person flyers. Therefore, I assume they don't think those bodies are Paul. Do you guys agree?

To me it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't think either one is him. I think it means they don't want to waste time. If it turns out neither one is him and they didn't keeping looking or getting the word out that is 2 or 3 days wasted not looking.

My heart aches for this family. I cannot imagine what they are going through. I hope they find peace soon.