PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #5

[J. J. in Phila]

For those following the case, and related issues, the newly sworn in DA, Stacy Parks Miller, has been "cleaning house" at the office.

Out:

ADA Steve Sloane
[RFG's closest friend at the office, often commented on the case, hired by RFG in 1992]

ADA Karen Kuebler
[Hired by RFG in c. 2000]

ADA Carolyn [Fenton] Larrabee
[Hired by Mark Smith after RFG vanished; she is the one that saw him in the metallic colored car behind the Courthouse on the afternoon of 4/15/05.]

Legal Secretary Kristin Ergott

Resigned last week:

Patty Fornicola, to take a job at DUI court.
[W/VA, clerk, and RFG's girlfriend, whom he was living with when he vanished. She is the one that got the call from him on 4/15/05 while he was in the Brush Valley area.]

http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/1708234.html

As far as I know, the only two ADA's that worked for RFG left are Smith and Nathan Boob.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I changed the title of the blog on 1/1/10 to "Sporadic Comments on Ray Gricar."

You can find it here: http://tiny.cc/SCORGCDT

I made some other changes:

1. Under the Blog Roll (on the right) there are links to, among other things:

A. An "Index of Indexes" with includes an index of the known evidence, the theories, and a detailed chronological account of the investigation.

B. A link to the sight photos of Lewisburg from my trip there in late July of 2009.

2. An e-mail address where you can e-mail me. I might even respond if I'm in a good mood.

I have commented on the usefulness of Webslueths for research, especially because it is archived. Often times, I can see public reaction to news stories by looking at the comments.

I will add that while this post is blatant self-promoting, , I do not work for the Centre Daily Times and am not compensated for doing the blog by anyone.

If you are interested, drop by.

 

[txsleuth]

for anyone's who is interested - here is an archived list of posts from the Ray Gricar board at Court TV (which the moderator there has now closed)

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/archive/index.php/f-127.html

and here is my google site on the case

http://sites.google.com/site/raygricar/

 

[webrocket]

I think the dude just wanted to vanish and I'd say he did a good job at it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think the dude just wanted to vanish and I'd say he did a good job at it.

You may be right. I will admit to being skeptical, however.

 

[Decatur Doll]

If he left voluntarily--what has been referred to as "walk-away"-- it would almost seem as if he had assistance. How could he have gotten out of Lewisburg, a small college town in the middle of nowhere, without someone helping him? Public transportation does not exist extensively as in urban areas and it is impossible to rent a car without a credit card. Hitchhiking seems unlikely, because there would be too much of a risk that someone would remember him. Walking, hiking, out of town also bears that same risk. So it seems more likely that he had to have someone meeting him to give him a ride out of town--IF IT WAS A WALK-AWAY! Who could/would possibly give him a ride?

 

[webrocket]

If he left voluntarily--what has been referred to as "walk-away"-- it would almost seem as if he had assistance. How could he have gotten out of Lewisburg, a small college town in the middle of nowhere, without someone helping him? Public transportation does not exist extensively as in urban areas and it is impossible to rent a car without a credit card. Hitchhiking seems unlikely, because there would be too much of a risk that someone would remember him. Walking, hiking, out of town also bears that same risk. So it seems more likely that he had to have someone meeting him to give him a ride out of town--IF IT WAS A WALK-AWAY! Who could/would possibly give him a ride?

He could have paid cash for a used car and had it waiting for him there in Lewisburg as he dumped his real car. Whether he registered the car under someone else's name or put fictitious plate on it, who knows.

In the grand scheme of details in an exit strategy, this one seems simple.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Why would anyone on the verge of retirement just walk away from pension or 401K/403B benefits or from Social Security? He's a grown man; all he had to do was finish his term and move on.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Decatur Doll and Webrocket, your questions are the ones I've been asking.

Pittsburghgirl, there are very serious question on the asset situation. He had, for years, made in excess of $100,000, but had just over $100,000 in his account. Some of that was covered in the fourth part of the Gricar thread.

Mr. Gricar didn't have a 401K, but his daughter will get his pension benefits.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I've done blogs on both Mr. Gricar's assets and pension.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is an early post on RFG's assets and income:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39539&page=13

I think the blogs on it will give you greater insight.

 

[webrocket]

He took off plain and simple.

Prosecutors in places like NYC, DC, Detroit or LA are not murdered by street gangs they put behind bars. NO ONE would rub out Gricar for any case he used to work on.

 

[Mia]

I really don't care what happened to Gricar. He took off plain and simple.

Prosecutors in places like NYC, DC, Detroit or LA are not murdered by street gangs they put behind bars. NO ONE would rub out Gricar for any case he used to work on.

I totally agree. I've just been reading up on this case and my instinct is that he took off too. He left his pension/accounted for money behind so his daughter would have something, clearly. And I know this is a small thing, really, but on the day he was last seen wasn't he seen wearing the same clothes as the night before? What does that tell you? He was up all night...couldn't sleep...excited, perhaps. And took off bright and early the next day. True, that someone would assassinate Gricar for prosecuting them is too farfetched and unrealistic. This guy was a DA for 20 years, very smart, knew exactly what he needed to do to disappear without a trace, and pulled it off without a hitch. Many will continue to question his motivations, and I have no idea what they were, why he would want to disappear. There are countless reasons. Only he knows, really. But I am sure this guy is most definitely alive. IMO, of course.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm undecided, overall.

One theory that I had early on was that RFG was lured to Lewisburg and murdered, because he was a prosecutor. Tony Gricar referred to it as someone doing a "slow burn," someone with a grudge. Now, I think that is very unlikely.

One thing, however, that does keep me up at night was that Mr. Gricar might have met someone, possibly a lover. There was a "Mystery Woman" seen with him at one point in Lewisburg.

On theory that I have is that he went to Lewisburg to meet this "Mystery Woman," which he did. Either there was some argument and this "Mystery Woman" killed him, perhaps in a fit of rage, or that she had a significant other that showed up after she left.

I think it is a real possibility, but so is walk away, or drive away. I have theories and some evidence for both, but not strong evidence for either.

 

[sneezy]

Hi, I've only posted once or twice here, but read a lot.

I've thought a lot about this and came down with this...

1) RFG in the course of his job discovered something and realized that it could "blow up", whether it be political corruption/organized crime/drugs, something that he honestly wanted to investigate on his own...BUT he knew that if the wrong people got wind it could be dangerous for himself and for PF/coworkers. Hence, the need for the "eraser" software. Think of it as the "hidden cyanade pill" if he's "caught."

He is nearing the point of going public with his investigation and contacts an informant who doesn't want to be seen in public with him. They agree to meet in Lewisburg, close enough, but far enough away. The meeting time was changed so he ends up cancelling going in to work in the afternoon, taking the whole day.

He gets to the SoS, informant leans in the car and gives him the needed info. After informant leaves...one of the criminals confronts RFG with a gun and gets RFG in their car without a struggle. Criminal grabs the laptop from the car and drives off with RFG. Either the informant is in on IT/coerced to then wipe down the car or an accomplice does it. They then destroy the laptop and toss it in the river asap. RFG is taken to an undisclosed location and killed.

2) Witness protection. Similar to the above scenario. Instead of the criminals "getting" him, he is in contact with WPP. The night before he is reported missing he is seen taking a walk with PF and both are reported to looking "depressed". Could he be telling her that he's leaving? (nothing specific of course) Could he be discussing with her that he's ill (since nothing was found in his medical records could it be he used this illness as part of the escape plan/set up for suicide scenario). The next morning he lets her leave for work, gets up, grabs the laptop with the needed evidence and heads to Lewisburg. This way, PF will find the car and get it back. He meets with the WPP person, they copy and then destroy the computer and throw it in the river.

My gut just says he didn't kill himself or just walk away, that there is something "more" to it. If I had to pick one of the two above scenarios, I'd take witness protection. I really don't think that even organized crime would be that thorough in cleaning up not only the car, but a body.

I don't think he'd just walk away, not that close to retirement, a decent pension, especially since he knew exactly how many days until he retired...that doesn't sound like a man who wants to just walk out of his life. Even if he didn't want to be with PF there was nothing legally binding them, he could have just left her.

Those are my guesses.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

On the laptop, Mr. Gricar had talked two individuals about destroying it at least a year prior to his disappearance. At least one of the people he asked was not one of his staff, the county IT person, or his nephew, that does computer work. There was something on that computer that he never wanted to see the light of day. The searches were done sometime in the month before he disappeared.

On the WPP, he didn't witness anything. There were no indictments and any grand jury would have expired long ago.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Mr. Gricar's requests were reported in the CDT on 10/1/08, though the story is not online.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ah, yes, I found the original.

http://www.centredaily.com/2008/10/01/v-print/874817/gricar-hard-drive-comes-up-empty.html

 

[txsleuth]

on another note - I've posted it elsewhere but I think it's very interesting....

Gricar's best friend Stephen Sloane told the media and/or police about Gricar's trip to Cleveland (when Gricar didn't tell anyone he was going)

Sloane told the media about Gricar's atlas - with various destinations highlighted

Sloane told the media that Gricar "should have had more money than that" when he vanished (even though Zaccagni said Gricar had a substantial sum untouched in his account)

Sloane told me about Gricar being so interested in historical war sites and how Gricar might have traveled to one of those places & they'd have a good laugh about it someday

Sloane told the media he thought Gricar walked away

*And* I don't doubt that Sloane is probably the one who told law enforcement about the female friend of Gricar's who was a smoker when cigarette ash was found in the car.....even though I've heard *Sloane* was a smoker at that time.

Sounds like a solid walkaway ~promotion~ to me....

I wonder why?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

on another note - I've posted it elsewhere but I think it's very interesting....

Gricar's best friend Stephen Sloane told the media and/or police about Gricar's trip to Cleveland (when Gricar didn't tell anyone he was going)

Since, at that point, they hadn't found the car, it seems prudent to have volunteered that information.

Sloane told the media about Gricar's atlas - with various destinations highlighted

It was known that he liked to travel, including a trip to Slovenia.

Sloane told the media that Gricar "should have had more money than that" when he vanished (even though Zaccagni said Gricar had a substantial sum untouched in his account)

And so have others that looked at his published salary, where since 1997, he was grossing more than $100,000 per year.

Sloane told me about Gricar being so interested in historical war sites and how Gricar might have traveled to one of those places & they'd have a good laugh about it someday

As pointed out, Mr. Gricar liked to travel.

Sloane told the media he thought Gricar walked away

*And* I don't doubt that Sloane is probably the one who told law enforcement about the female friend of Gricar's who was a smoker when cigarette ash was found in the car.....even though I've heard *Sloane* was a smoker at that time.

Sounds like a solid walkaway ~promotion~ to me....

I wonder why?

Sorry, but how does the possibility, discussed on 4/16-17/05, that Mr. Gricar was spending some time with a woman translate into he walked away for five years?