Paris - Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral, Apr 2019

[Hatfield]

Just my opine, it’s too early even now to imply anything, even accidental.

JMO
I totally agree. Yesterday I could not understand why they were so quick to start to imply it was most likely an accident related to the Construction because it was way too early to determine that.

First goal of any response is to put out the fire. There is no way IMO that any real thorough investigative work began until after the fire was under control. And that was not until later that evening.

Not just in France but the politically correct environment these days can have a detrimental effect of not facing reality and it can hurt honesty and getting facts. So many times when a real terrorist commits a crime, the news will not even identify the person's name or release more about the person until it is finally dug out of the media. If its some Joe on the street then its not a problem and facts are released. So lets be fair here. Its common knowledge that certain groups are attacking the public at large and have been for some time now. There is no reason to cover up anything. Find out what happened and release the information. If its really an accident then so be it. But if not, then dont try to hide that from the public or make silly premature assumptions just to be politically correct.

Even if it was a worker involved with the fire then maybe the worker was a disgruntled worker and could have done it on purpose.
Or a worker that happened to take a stance on his own beliefs. So even if a worker was determined to have been involved with starting the fire then a thorough investigation still needs to happen. And that surely didnt happen yesterday while the flames were still shooting up.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Are you suggesting that terrorism is being covered up...because that's what is seems like your implying.

I know. I said is seems like that is what you are implying. So I guess you're not?

You're reading something into what I said.

I thought it went without saying, that I don't believe 50 investigators are conspiring to cover up terrorism. That's preposterous.

By all accounts the fire is still under investigation. I thought it was to soon (just hours) after a historic fire to say it is not arson. IMO

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The attic isn't accessible to the public. The workers had already gone home for the day, I don't know what time but it could have been a couple of hours prior to the fire starting. Nobody was up there. There is likely a locked door to access the roof. Presumably there were no accelerants used, this is ascertained quickly and easily by firefighters. I guess taking all that into consideration is does seem arson is unlikely, same for terrorism. Who knows though... the investigation will be thorough and taken extremely seriously.

It will be really interesting to see whether they can pinpoint the start of the fire. It always amazes me when they say "it was a faulty washing machine" or "it was a candle" when they are looking at a pile ash and rubble. Might have to see if I can find any articles about how they do it!

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

“There was fire proofing everywhere, but it was not enough, after what we saw,” Michel Picaud, head of the non-profit organization Friends of Notre-Dame de Paris, told TIME on Tuesday morning.
We Tried to Save Notre Dame Too Late, Says Champion of Cathedral Restoration

 

[Hatfield]

The attic isn't accessible to the public. The workers had already gone home for the day, I don't know what time but it could have been a couple of hours prior to the fire starting. Nobody was up there. There is likely a locked door to access the roof. Presumably there were no accelerants used, this is ascertained quickly and easily by firefighters. I guess taking all that into consideration is does seem arson is unlikely, same for terrorism. Who knows though... the investigation will be thorough and taken extremely seriously.

It will be really interesting to see whether they can pinpoint the start of the fire. It always amazes me when they say "it was a faulty washing machine" or "it was a candle" when they are looking at a pile ash and rubble. Might have to see if I can find any articles about how they do it!

It is amazing to me too how fire investigators can sometimes determine the exact starting point of a blaze and what caused the ignition.

Especially like in the California wildfires where so many thousands of acres burned. Sometimes the investigators can pinpoint the exact starting spot and what caused the ignition. It can be a difficult analysis depending on each fire's different circumstances.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

Investigators have made a stunning claim about the time it took staff at Notre Dame to find the fire that destroyed the iconic cathedral.

Staff at Notre Dame Cathedral took 23 minutes to find the raging inferno that destroyed the iconic landmark, it has emerged.

Paris prosecutor Remy Heitz said workers were not immediately able to find the rampaging fire after an alarm sounded at 6.20pm yesterday.

It was only until a second alert sounded at 6.43pm that the catastrophic blaze was discovered on the Gothic roof.
Gothic structures destroyed as President vows to make it ‘even more beautiful’

 

[PrairieWind]

It is amazing to me too how fire investigators can sometimes determine the exact starting point of a blaze and what caused the ignition.

Especially like in the California wildfires where so many thousands of acres burned. Sometimes the investigators can pinpoint the exact starting spot and what caused the ignition. It can be a difficult analysis depending on each fire's different circumstances.

It may be more difficult to pin point this ignition source since those areas of the attic/roof where it started could very well be collapsed. Not saying they can still piece it together, but instead of being able to examine that scene in-situ, they are going to have to be examining those pieces with a magnifying glass on the church floor. I really hope an exact cause can be found. I am interested in what equipment/tools were in the attic area due to the restoration. Heaters? Over-loaded electric cords? etc

 

[Cryptic]

I am interested in what equipment/tools were in the attic area due to the restoration. Heaters? Over-loaded electric cords? etc

All possible, so would be rags soaked in a variety of solvents, oils or thinners. These can combust spontaneously under the right conditions.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

If my historic, billion dollar property burned, the next morning I'd be in my attorney's office preparing to sue the contractors.

If lawsuits aren't in progress against the renovation companies, something is extremely suspicious.

 

[Hatfield]

All possible, so would be rags soaked in a variety of solvents, oils or thinners. These can combust spontaneously under the right conditions.

Thats a possibility too.

Or maybe even something so bizarre like a worker leaving a pair of glasses behind or a glass jar sitting just right and the sun reflecting through it like a magnifying glass and started to burn something nearby.

Spontaneous combustion is interesting to learn how it happens and under what conditions. Rags soaked with a flammable liquid like turpentine could possibly self combust into flames if enough heat in the attic space got hot enough from the sun beating down on the roof. Or a reflection of the sunlight from some other shiny metal or something was focused right on the solvent soaked rag.

Could be a possibility.

 

[Cryptic]

If lawsuits aren't in progress against the renovation company, something is extremely suspicious.

Civil liability maybe very different in France than it is in the U.S. This could involve very different burdens of proof. For example, France might require that willful negligence be shown.

The above aside, I need to add that I have no knowledge what so ever of French civil suits. I do know in general terms that not all nations match the US in regards to the ease of suits.

 

[Inthedetails]

Civil liability maybe very different in France than it is in the U.S. This could involve very different burdens of proof. For example, France might require that willful negligence be shown.

The above aside, I need to add that I have no knowledge what so ever of French civil suits. I do know in general terms that not all nations match the US in regards to the ease of suits.

Right. I don't know about French law either, but I'm fairly certain there is no requirement to file suit the day after an incident.

jmo

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm looking forward to a news media organization looking into what type of insurance that the church had.

Nothing nefarious, just wondering if something like Lloyd's of London was covering the church in any way as they do very strange and exceptional coverage that no other Insurance Company does. ( I just Googled, they are technically not an insurance company, just a conglomeration putting up money for often exceptional coverage)

 

[Inthedetails]

"...their vision obscured by fumes and tears, firefighters, priests and municipal workers passed treasures hand-to-hand, hoping the speed of desperation could outrun the flames.

They had 66 minutes."

Shock, sadness, but no panic: Minutes that saved Notre Dame

 

[Inthedetails]

Rooster recovered!

"The metal rooster that once sat atop Notre Dame’s iconic spire was discovered by a worker combing through the rubble of the Gothic cathedral in Paris on Tuesday....

Three relics were stashed inside the rooster, but because the sculpture was smashed in, authorities haven’t yet been able to verify that they are still there, the source added."

https://nypost.com/2019/04/16/spiritual-lightning-rod-atop-iconic-notre-dame-spire-found-in-rubble/

 

[musicaljoke]

It may not be terrorism from non-Christians that have desecrated many other Christian sites in France, but what looks like a duck and quacks like a duck is usually a duck.
Catholic churches have been desecrated across France—and officials don’t know why

It could also be terrorism from citizens hostile to the French government.
Shock at attack on Paris’ Arc de Triomphe during ‘Yellow Vest’ protest

It is extremely offensive to make false insinuations, or attempt to put blame where there is no evidence to support it. It's quite possible that investigators, fire fighters, workers and/or others at the scene had enough preliminary information to make an educated guess how the fire started.

The French press is clearly doing their best to prevent this fire from becoming a political incident and creating unnecessary turmoil. I applaud them for it.

 

[PommyMommy]

Notre-Dame Photos: A Fire and Its Aftermath

In the aftermath of the fire, the interior of Notre-Dame was a scene of debris.CreditCreditPool photo by Christophe Petit Tesson

[...]

It is scorched, battered and missing its spire and much of its roof, but the 800-year-old Gothic masterwork that symbolized both a place and a culture is a monument to be repaired, not mourned.

Indeed, even as firefighters scoured the ashes and debris for any lingering embers, and investigators worked to determine the cause of the blaze, the French authorities were putting in motion an international fund-raising drive to reconstruct the landmark.

The fire may have been linked to renovation work. The scaffolding used for that work clung to the damaged cathedral a day after the blaze.CreditDan Kitwood/Getty Images

Late in the day, the Paris fire service announced that the last remnants of the blaze were extinguished.CreditLudovic Marin/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

The fire started in the late afternoon at Notre-Dame, one of the most visited monuments of the French capital.CreditThierry Mallet/Associated Press

An aerial view of the fire as it was still raging.CreditBenoit Moser/Paris Fire Brigade, via Associated Press

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Pommy, thank you for that photograph. It gives me chills.

Extraordinary. I am awestruck.

 

[otto]

It took 2 hours for fire trucks to arrive on the scene (CNN and FOX news reported this). Before the fire trucks had even arrived, government officials had declared the fire was an accident. That's suspicious.

The rush hour traffic and incredibly dense city made it more difficult for fire trucks to arrive. After they arrived, they had to get the hoses 23 storeys up on the exterior of the building. In the mean time, firefighters and civilians formed a human chain to remove relics from the interior. It was a remarkable achievement.

Because the fire started near the renovation area, it was speculated that the fire was accidental, but an investigation, with interviews of restoration people, was started while the fire burned. Until the investigation produces proof of arson, it seems logical that this was an accident.

 

[otto]

If my historic, billion dollar property burned, the next morning I'd be in my attorney's office preparing to sue the contractors.

If lawsuits aren't in progress against the renovation companies, something is extremely suspicious.

France is a different country that has its own way of doing things. In the USA, everyone sues everyone because they might get rich. Everyone knows this.

Bankrupting a company that restores 800 year old buildings may not be in the best interests of France or the Notre Dame Cathedral.