It wouldn't really take much to have DNA under her fingernails or need to be a big fight that she put up. One small scratch could be enough. It was said to be small amounts wasn't it ?
GUILTY Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #22
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It wouldn't really take much to have DNA under her fingernails or need to be a big fight that she put up. One small scratch could be enough. It was said to be small amounts wasn't it ?
I don't recall it that way at all. The *advertiser censored* movie story wasn't that they were in Florida making them but that they were made in Aruba and the finished movies are what made their way to Florida. And I don't recall Anita ever responding to that specific story by saying they were in Florida to look at schools, I think you are a bit confused on that. Those stories are unconfirmed but because the movies haven't surfaced doesn't mean they exist or don't exist, just another unconfirmed story.
Chain smoking and sleeping are what I remember reading in the news at the time of arrest. If the taxi driver has added taking out and putting away a computer, okay.
I know that Paulus and Natalee were not at the casino at the same time. Paulus had already left when Natalee arrived. The alternative would mean that Natalee was in the casino from 4 until 10:30, and then at the bar for another 2 hours ... having drinks for 6 - 8 hours ... no dinner break. That is not what friends said.
The problem with the drug and rape scenario is that there is no evidence of either. Stephany did not have date rape drugs in her system, there was no evidence of sexual assault. At no time, throughout his life, has Joran been factually connected with date rape drugs and sexual assault. Joran is not a pimp, and there is no factual evidence connecting him with pimping. According to Beth, someone at the casino said that Joran preyed on young women.
I think it's important to separate what we know to be true from what Joran claims and what Beth feared.
Joran gave tennis lessons at the club. Maybe he used the money he earned working at that job.
If we are going to believe what is stated in the statements attributed to Paulus, then we have to believe all of it, not only that which suits our viewpoint. In the statements linked earlier, Paulus went to the bank on May 30 to deposit 400 Aruban Guldens in Joran's account. Joran gave him 500 Aruban Guldens that he won at the tournament, and Paulus was paid 100 for his seat at the table.
Joran said that he and Natalee were fooling around. Joran is a liar. I don't think we should rely on anything he said. Joran said he removed Stphany's pants after he murdered her. Joran said that statement was coerced.
Based on evidence, and 5 years under the magnifying glass, there's no reason to believe Joran used date rape drugs or raped women.
If Stephany ingested ghb, why wasn't it found in her system during autopsy?
Anita and Joran went to Florida to look at a college.
There is no evidence that Joran made *advertiser censored* movies. It was a rumor, like so many others. According to Nancy Grace, Joran murdered two women in Bogota even though he did not leave the airport. Rumor without fact or evidence.
admittedly, i don't know where the report came from, but isn't thailand seeking to press charges against joran related to sex trafficking? isn't that pimping? are you saying they don't have factual evidence for these charges? how do you know what evidence they have?
Lola
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As far as I have seen there has been absolutely nothing confirming this allegation about Thailand pursuing this further in the Thai press. Only CBS has said that someone in the Peruvian ministry confirmed it...like so many stories, it gets thrown out there, grows legs and starts to go around the internet with no basis in fact. I've always thought the Thai sex traficking story was Joran finding a way to set up Peter de Vries and make him look foolish after the Patrick van der Eem tapes.
Joran wasn't pimping in Thailand. A couple of years ago, Pieter de Vries and an acquaintance of Joran exposed Joran's fantasy about hiring Thai women, getting visas for them, and sending them to work in the clubs in the Netherlands. Prostitution is legal in the Netherlands, so even if the women became prostitutes after arriving in the Netherlands, he is not breaking the law.
so it's not documented that he's pimped just that he's fantasized about it...that's better...i get it now...
ETA: that (in red) sounds a lot more like a plan in progress than a fantasy...IMO, of course...
Joran was not breaking any laws in Thailand. Maybe it's not nice for men to approach women and ask them if they want to dance for 10 hours in a club in the Netherlands, but it's certainly not illegal. It's also not illegal for women to be prostitutes in the Netherlands. What could Thai officials charge him with?
i don't know their laws so i don't know what exact charge they could pursue...i'm sure with joran's high moral character he would ensure that all these women would be of legal age to make these decisions...
whether it's legal in the netherlands or not, a pimp is still a pimp...IMOO just a couple of degrees away from being a murderer...after all, these women tend to sell their souls entering this profession and only a truly evil person with no conscience (i.e. psychopath or complete narcissist) would assist with this...so that person would probably not feel badly if someone died- "all in a day's work"...all MOO as I said...
FLNY
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I beg to differ....another alternative would be that Paulus was still in the casino when Natalee arrived later in the evening.
You only 'know' what time Paulus left by his own testimony. Unless you have police confirmation that Paulus left earlier, either alternative could, in fact, be valid. However, Paulus being there later rather than Natalee having arrived earlier is the more rational explanation in my mind.
Thailand has been turning a blind eye to child prostitution for as long as I can remember, and is only now cleaning up their act because of international pressure. Prostitution is not a problem in Thailand. The women in the video were not children, and seemed like they were toying with Joran. They told him they wanted to work in the Netherlands, but then said they were students and needed to finish their studies. None of them was prepared to take a job in the clubs in the Netherlands.
Joran wasn't a pimp. He offered adult women a legal job in another country. None of the women accepted the job, none of them liked the terms of the job or the wage.
Prostitution in the Netherlands is a perfectly legitimate profession. Prostitutes don't sell their souls. They are regularly health checked, pay taxes, and have normal lives like everyone else. What Joran did was neither illegal nor immoral in Thailand or the Netherlands.
hollyblue
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It would be trafficking if he lied about the job in dancing and "forced" them to work prostitution. Sex trafficking is not an option for an occupation.....sort of like extortion/embezzlement don't you think?
I think there would be more believability in the fact that Joran just went bezerk on Natalee now that the homicide of Stephany has come to light. No drugs needed, except his liking of amphetamines and the help they added by him being so jacked.
Joran did not force anyone to work as a prostitute. He offered women in Thailand a job. What might have happened after the women arrived in the Netherlands is completely up for speculation ... but it didn't happen, so no laws were broken.
I agree with what may have happened to Natalee. Given that Joran violently attacked Stephany, no drugs, no sexual assault, I suspect the same thing happened before.
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