POI: Michael Pak

[scandi]

There is way too much evidence that points to there not being a conspiracy by multiple people to murder SG, so I won't even go into it, you should be able to see that on your own. If there are actions by people that resemble a conspiracy, it is a conspiracy to cover up an overdose. I believe that SG's "state" was a result of the LISK intentionally poisoning or maliciously dosing her, and not your run of the mill recreational drug overdose or bad trip, hence SG's reaction was "they are trying to kill me". We don't know who provided her with drugs or drink, and we don't know who was the original source of the contraband. If pak or jb seemed to be the ones who dosed her, she would suspect them, hence "they". But their actions do not indicate they intended her harm, period. The only person within oak beach who was involved in the scenario, whose actions indicate malicious behavior is Charles Peter Hackett. You can believe his lies, but his credibility is well documented, he is not a credible person period. It isn't really that complicated, he is the poisonous member of the community, and his actions were clearly defensive, and that of a guilty party, and if you haven't noticed, SG's possessions were buried behind his house. <Modsnip>

I have been saying this for nearly a year, his resume and actions speak for themselves, he is literally the center, the bulls eye, of a SK venn diagram. They found her possessions right in his back yard, and I know someone had been repeatedly digging up that area where her possessions were since at least 2010. Wake up and smell the cemetery in his back yard already.

Hi Truth, This is O/T for this thread so sorry, but you state "SG's posessions were buried behind his house".

I had never read they were buried, must have missed that. And in fact always thought it odd the helicopter searches didn't spot her belongings. I guess I imagined them laying on the ground tucked in among the brambles.

Do you know what prompted LE to go to that spot behind the Dr's house to do some digging?

Ta

 

[truthspider]

Hi Truth, This is O/T for this thread so sorry, but you state "SG's posessions were buried behind his house".

I had never read they were buried, must have missed that. And in fact always thought it odd the helicopter searches didn't spot her belongings. I guess I imagined them laying on the ground tucked in among the brambles.

Do you know what prompted LE to go to that spot behind the Dr's house to do some digging?

I watched SCPD use shovels, then call in the backhoe (total waste of tax dollars by the way, I just took a few days off and dug holes for days, took out 6 inches of concrete and rebar then 3 feet of soil, sand, and 30 year old dredged and compressed clay, I broke 3 shovels but got myself prepped for summer.) They didn't need the crane, there are no major roots there, shovels would have been better at preserving any evidence, more careful, it was either laziness or theatrics....too soft. Come on now SCPD, you can't tell people it was a quicksand like marsh then roll up in on 20,000 pound backhoe, the people know their physics and can calculate.

And yes scandi, I know the person that prompted that search, what I can't account for is the 7 month delay between them being told and acting on said information... Wishing it was a strategy, sadly believing it wasn't.

I have to admit that I do forget that not everyone on this forum is local, that they are not privy to what actually occurs on the ground, don't have news12, and can't see things for what they are. Also, my pretention and attitude probably results from this information not reaching all of you, and for that I am sorry if I am course (ok am an a$$ho1e) but the truth/reality can make you furious.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Personally, I believe at least one assertion.

P.S.

Make that two assertions.

 

[WINDSOR]

Truth, re post #853,

I did not use the term conspiracy in regards to MP, JB and CPH, but rather collusion. Conspiracy in my mind involves pre-planning, and a specific goal. In the SG incident the events were not pre-planned and more a scenario that went out of control.

Again let me assure you I am not dismissing CPH's role in this event at all. I do have a few questions and comments.

You imply that CPH supplied the drugs that were given to SG. Am I right in assuming that you believe these drugs were given to her when JB and SG went on a 15 minute drive?

I am assuming because JB drove SG to CPH's home that CPH administered the drug as well. If this is true then there was cooperation between JB and CPH and CPH is not working alone.

Do you know the time interval from the return to JB's house and the first 911 call?


Now there is no independent confirmation that CPH ever met SG that night. If JB did not bring SG to CPH then the only other way they could have made contact would have been for CPH to follow her when she was running from MP.

If CPH had met SG previously that night and he finds out that SG is running free and calling 911, CPH could have also gone looking for her, to make sure she did not incriminate him to LE.

MP never mentioned another car or person looking for SG when he was.
This could be because
a) There was nobody else chasing/looking for SG
b) MP did not want to mention somebody(CPH) was looking for SG as well, because they were co-operating
c) MP never saw anybody else looking for SG.

I can see a scenario where both MP and CPH are looking for SG. CPH captures SG and immobilizes her. He then tells MP " I will handle it from here, you can go" MP leaves Oak Beach, but returns later to confer with CPH that everything is under control.This is co-operation.



I will grant you that I can accept two alternative theories regarding SG.

MP caught SG and drove away from Oak Beach with her.

or

CPH caught SG and took her home with him.

The crucial point I have been trying to make is that MP is the key, he knows what happened, he should be the focus.

More questions for MP

1) When you were searching for SG was there anybody else searching as well?

2)If you were concerned with SG's well-being why did you leave before LE arrived, you knew they were on there way? You knew she was many miles from home without transport. Why did you not stay?

WINDSOR

 

[LINative13]

I have a physics degree. Surface area and how you distribute weight (treads and tracks) can off set a 100,000 pound vehicle.

 

[scandi]

I watched SCPD use shovels, then call in the backhoe (total waste of tax dollars by the way, I just took a few days off and dug holes for days, took out 6 inches of concrete and rebar then 3 feet of soil, sand, and 30 year old dredged and compressed clay, I broke 3 shovels but got myself prepped for summer.) They didn't need the crane, there are no major roots there, shovels would have been better at preserving any evidence, more careful, it was either laziness or theatrics....too soft. Come on now SCPD, you can't tell people it was a quicksand like marsh then roll up in on 20,000 pound backhoe, the people know their physics and can calculate.

And yes scandi, I know the person that prompted that search, what I can't account for is the 7 month delay between them being told and acting on said information... Wishing it was a strategy, sadly believing it wasn't.

I have to admit that I do forget that not everyone on this forum is local, that they are not privy to what actually occurs on the ground, don't have news12, and can't see things for what they are. Also, my pretention and attitude probably results from this information not reaching all of you, and for that I am sorry if I am course (ok am an a$$ho1e) but the truth/reality can make you furious.

I appreciate your post TS

The fact that now I realize some person actually buried her effects, especially in THAT location is mind boggling to me. All this time I had not envisioned that to be the case. That alone says her death was no accident. IMO

I don't think it was Michael Pak { staying OT ;} who noticed someone digging but must have been a neighbor or someone with a view from their house of that property. Hmmmm Well, it is food for thought to broaden my perspective of how things happened that early morning.

And TS, every poster is the same as you when the case is in their back yard. With Kyron going missing in Portland I had a much more intense realization about his case as I knew all about the LE, Land layout, type of people in the area where he lived, etc than I do say like this one, all the way across the country in an unfamiliar location. I don't think of you as an ******* but one of few here who have discovered info like locals do. And having that info allows your brain to travel in directions our brains can't. Perfectly understandable.

 

[scandi]

I have a physics degree. Surface area and how you distribute weight (treads and tracks) can off set a 100,000 pound vehicle.

Yes, that could be true. But I think the real point TS was making is that he watched LE dig and they were having a tough time.

Of course, if TS knows who gave a tip to LE about these things being buried there, he also knows when that happened and what the weather was like at the time.

Whoops, MOO

 

[truthspider]

I have a physics degree. Surface area and how you distribute weight (treads and tracks) can off set a 100,000 pound vehicle.

thanks for giving us the z without the x or the y.

so you think that you can drive a 20,000 lb backhoe over a "quicksand" like "marsh"?

please don't show us any math in the answer, I am simply pointing out that the ground where the backhoe was driving around on is hard compact sand.

 

[Seaslug44]

Let's not get back into that groove of twisting the truth to make the facts line up against CPH as evidence (when they do not).

Let's be totally honest here...

Yes they were digging. And yes sometimes they used the backhoe and sometimes they used their sholves. But the only time they were digging through dry ground was when their metal detectors sensed something under the surface (as seen here in this photo);

They must have dug fifty to a hundred random holes throughout that area.

Let's also be honest about the location of where SG's personal items were found and how they were found. Your posts suggests that all of her items were burried in one location directly behind CPH's home. However, that is not true.

This is the report about her purse being found;

The pocketbook was found during a search of a marshy area that had been underwater and inaccessible when it was previously searched, the source said.

-Source

And this is what they had to say when they found her cell phone the next day;

After multiple searches using dive teams, K-9 units and military surveillance, police Wednesday found a cellphone believed to be Gilbert's. On Tuesday, a pocketbook containing Gilbert's ID, and separately, a pair of tattered jeans and ballet-slipper shoes, were uncovered.

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/cops-shannan-gilbert-in-there-someplace-1.3372379

If you don't trust Newsday, I can find you the video of the police news conference where the investigators specifically stated that the items were found SEPARATETLY. If we are going to Sleuth this case properly then we should stick with the facts.

Were the police digging?

YES.

Did they find anything burried underground?

NO.

Unless of course, the theory is now that CPH wondered into an area that was underwater and burried her belongings on the floor of a drainage ditch.

On another note, this is the first time I realized that they described her jeans as being 'tattered'


(tat·tered/&#712;tat&#601;rd/




Adjective:




1.Torn, old, and in generally poor condition; in tatters: "an old woman in tattered clothes".
2.Virtually destroyed; ruined: "the tattered remnants of her dreams".

 

[scandi]

Let's not get back into that groove of twisting the truth to make the facts line up against CPH as evidence (when they do not).

Let's be totally honest here...

Yes they were digging. And yes sometimes they used the backhoe and sometimes they used their sholves. But the only time they were digging through dry ground was when their metal detectors sensed something under the surface (as seen here in this photo);

They must have dug fifty to a hundred random holes throughout that area.

Let's also be honest about the location of where SG's personal items were found and how they were found. Your posts suggests that all of her items were burried in one location directly behind CPH's home. However, that is not true.

This is the report about her purse being found;

-Source

And this is what they had to say when they found her cell phone the next day;

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/cops-shannan-gilbert-in-there-someplace-1.3372379

If you don't trust Newsday, I can find you the video of the police news conference where the investigators specifically stated that the items were found SEPARATETLY. If we are going to Sleuth this case properly then we should stick with the facts.

Were the police digging?

YES.

Did they find anything burried underground?

NO.

Unless of course, the theory is now that CPH wondered into an area that was underwater and burried her belongings on the floor of a drainage ditch.

On another note, this is the first time I realized that they described her jeans as being 'tattered'


(tat·tered/&#712;tat&#601;rd/




Adjective:




1.Torn, old, and in generally poor condition; in tatters: "an old woman in tattered clothes".
2.Virtually destroyed; ruined: "the tattered remnants of her dreams".

'Tattered' jeans are what chicks buy to be right in line with today's style. LOL

I thought the Newsday link said 'uncovered' which implies her things were found under something. Could be dirt, brambles. Found it: ', . . . . a pair of tattered jeans and ballet-slipper shoes, were uncovered.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I took it to mean that the jeans and ballet-slipper shoes were obscured but not buried.

JMO.

 

[MrsPC]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/12/10/unday-marks-1-year-since-discovery-of-remains-on-gilgo-beach/

Earlier this week, investigators went back to Oak Beach where they found Gilbert’s purse, cell phone, jeans, shoes and lip gloss buried in the mud and water.

 

[WINDSOR]

Based on what I have read I do not think any of SG's apparel was purposefully buried in the ground.

Some killers bury the deceased and their items to ensure that no evidence is found. I think in this case the SK wants evidence of his work to be found.

I do not think the location where SG's remains or other of her items were found can be used to point to any particular suspect specifically CPH.

I think it is so important to focus on what happened in Oak Beach, between the time SG left GC's house, and the time MP left Oak Beach.

If a crime (abduction) took place that lead to SG's death, that small window of time is when it happened.

CPH says he was home
JB says he was home
MP says he was in his car chasing and looking for SG but never found her.

Are any of these men lying, two had 'inconclusive' polygraphs, so those two are likely lying to some extent. CPH did not take a polygraph for health reasons but he is known not to be always truthful.

So here we are again, with our theories and no real evidence, no smoking gun. Logistically it would be difficult for either CPH alone to capture SG, but with the assistance of MP he could have been successful at catching SG.

I do not think JB abducted SG that night. he may be involved in other ways though.

So in my mind it is either MP alone or MP and CPH together. That is why MP
(likely being mentally more fragile than CPH) needs to be interrogated by a top LE official.

MOO

 

[Seaslug44]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/12/10/unday-marks-1-year-since-discovery-of-remains-on-gilgo-beach/

Earlier this week, investigators went back to Oak Beach where they found Gilbert’s purse, cell phone, jeans, shoes and lip gloss buried in the mud and water.

Exactly. Thank you for posting that exact quote. It has been argued by Truthspider that there is an area behind CPH's home where there is a patch of dry why sand because someone keeps digging and burying there like a graveyard. Your post supports my point that her belongings were found scattered under the muck where they drained (And not buried under dry land).

 

[LINative13]

thanks for giving us the z without the x or the y.

so you think that you can drive a 20,000 lb backhoe over a "quicksand" like "marsh"?

please don't show us any math in the answer, I am simply pointing out that the ground where the backhoe was driving around on is hard compact sand.

No numbers? OK. Its kind of the like the idea of showshoes. You spread the weight out over a wider surface area (say a tread that a backhoe or a tank uses). So all that weight that the object has is now spread over a larger area. The weight of the object supported by the treads remains constant, so you can either have 100,000 pounds being effect by gravity over the area of 2 square feet or 100 square feet. Pounds per foot is 100000lbs./100 square feet=1000lbs/square foot OR 100000 lbs/2 square feet = 50000lbs/square feet.

Sorry but I had to refer to numbers....for what its worth numbers are only thing close to reliable in this case anyways.

 

[BKS]

Why hasn't Micheal Pak been arrested for sex-trafficking? We all know he crossed state lines when he drove Shannon from New Jersey to New York to see customers. Now that they've prosecuted Akeem Cruz (Megan Waterman's pimp) for sex-trafficking, it seems only logical that Micheal Pak should be arrested. Not good, since it will be his second arrest for sex-trafficking.

 

[truthspider]

Why hasn't Micheal Pak been arrested for sex-trafficking? We all know he crossed state lines when he drove Shannon from New Jersey to New York to see customers. Now that they've prosecuted Akeem Cruz (Megan Waterman's pimp) for sex-trafficking, it seems only logical that Micheal Pak should be arrested. Not good, since it will be his second arrest for sex-trafficking.

LE already told us, they want the help of the escort community in solving this case. MP will not be indicted, btw, he didn't commit a crime unless he was provably aware that SG was taking money in exchange for sexual acts, and not just her time and that he assisted in the crime.

 

[BKS]

Thanks Truthspider, but Micheal Pak has admitted all over the media that they were going there to meet a "john." He was getting a share of the profits and he wasn't going there for the fun of it! They were in the business of prostitution and he's in the business of sex-trafficking. Plain and simple. Also, if LE claims they are not going to prosecute those in the sex-trafficking business because they think someone will come forward with information, well HELLO, it's not working. If they would put some people in jail and prosecute the crimes they already know were committed, I guarantee someone would start talking!!! IMHO

 

[Seaslug44]

Why hasn't Micheal Pak been arrested for sex-trafficking? We all know he crossed state lines when he drove Shannon from New Jersey to New York to see customers. Now that they've prosecuted Akeem Cruz (Megan Waterman's pimp) for sex-trafficking, it seems only logical that Micheal Pak should be arrested. Not good, since it will be his second arrest for sex-trafficking.

The answer is simple;

He never drove across state lines. SG took a train from NJ to Midtown Manhattan. MP picked her up in NYC. I'd suspect that this was done this way purposely to avoid the exposure of crossing state lines.

 

[BKS]

The answer is simple;

He never drove across state lines. SG took a train from NJ to Midtown Manhattan. MP picked her up in NYC. I'd suspect that this was done this way purposely to avoid the exposure of crossing state lines.

Thanks Seaslug, but do you have a link that says she took a bus? Never heard that one before!