Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[Gecko100]

Talking about her countenance in court today specifically. Someone said she looked smug. And I agree she looked smug or rude. Whereas other days she has tried to play this wide eyed/helpless expression she recently had when hearing the victims impact statement and in other times during the case.

I think that comment about her 'rudeness' might have been a little satirical.

 

[molly333]

So--I think I've finally figured Jodi out.

Notice she didn't score high for any of the personality disorders on the tests that flag those disorders.

The young Dr D. tried to cobble together a borderline diagnosis but Dr. G. disagreed because that test is not meant to diagnose, and those characteristics Dr. D. pointed to also flag PTSD and high anxiety.

But characteristics Dr. D. did note were immaturity and instablity.

We also know that Jodi was not great at taking cues from people. People would ask her to leave their house and she would go and sit in the kitchen for an hour watching them.

People would note creepy looks in her eyes--she seemed to stare unendingly. We have seen her do this ourselves.

She is only able to handle low level jobs and cannot hold down jobs unless within a supportive structure like Daryl, in spite of being so smart.

She did very well with Daryl for four years and he noted her sweetness and that she was a loving, caring individual.

But she didn't do well when she stepped into the more complex society of the mormons and ppl. She equated sex with love but was never able to adequately express this, taking on the characteristics of the man she loved.

Jodi is a high functioning autistic, imo.

People miss it because she is so smart. She masks it with her command of language.

But people have commented on her odd use of language and how it is very cerebral, as if she is disconnected from what she is saying.

The State of Arizona is about to execute a mentally disabled girl because she has never been properly diagnosed.

She is an idiot savant, but autistic nevertheless.

She's not evil, she is an autistic girl who got in over her head.

This is the saddest thing I"ve ever seen.

IMO

 

[MeeBee]

So--I think I've finally figured Jodi out.

Notice she didn't score high for any of the personality disorders on the tests that flag those disorders.

The young Dr D. tried to cobble together a borderline diagnosis but Dr. G. disagreed because that test is not meant to diagnose, and those characteristics Dr. D. pointed to also flag PTSD and high anxiety.

But characteristics Dr. D. did note were immaturity and instablity.

We also know that Jodi was not great at taking cues from people. People would ask her to leave their house and she would go and sit in the kitchen for an hour watching them.

People would note creepy looks in her eyes--she seemed to stare unendingly. We have seen her do this ourselves.

She is only able to handle low level jobs and cannot hold down jobs unless within a supportive structure like Daryl, in spite of being so smart.

She did very well with Daryl for four years and he noted her sweetness and that she was a loving, caring individual.

But she didn't do well when she stepped into the more complex society of the mormons and ppl. She equated sex with love but was never able to adequately express this, taking on the characteristics of the man she loved.

Jodi is a high functioning autistic, imo.

People miss it because she is so smart. She masks it with her command of language.

But people have commented on her odd use of language and how it is very cerebral, as if she is disconnected from what she is saying.

The State of Arizona is about to execute a mentally retarded girl because she has never been properly diagnosed.

She is an idiot savant, but autistic nevertheless.

She's not evil, she is an autistic girl who got in over her head.

This is the saddest thing I"ve ever seen.

IMO

...I can't tell if you're serious or not?

 

[molly333]

...I can't tell if you're serious or not?

I'm very serious.

I've been thinking about this a lot in the back of my mind.

The wrong people were sent to diagnose her.

Two psychologists who gave her tests--

RS made a diagnosis of PTSD right off the bat and gave her a test to confirm it. Well, of course she had PTSD, if not before the murder, for sure after it.

Dr. D gave her a barrage of tests that showed a LOT of problems according to Dr. G. They showed a cry for help and anxiety off the scales. But, they didn't show any personality disorders. They also showed she has a genius IQ for language, as high as it scores.

Dr. D., like Dr. S, was looking for her own bias, a personality disorder. But, her diagnosis of BPD was not confirmed by her own tests. So she punted it.

AVL was looking for abuse. And she found it. It's not her job to make a diagnosis of autism or anything else for that matter.

Jodi would be abused if she is in the wrong environment, as would any high functioning autistic.

Watch the movie Rain Man again.

But, Daryl loved her and gave her a kind, supporting, loving environment and she flourished in it.

Everyone agrees something is 'off' with her. Everyone makes fun of her exceptional recall of things.

Some expert needs to test her for autism.

IMO



"Raymond has autism, and one of the manifestations of his condition is his superb recall, albeit usually with little understanding of the subject matter. He is also a mental calculator with the ability to instantly count hundreds of objects at once, far beyond the normal range of human subitizing abilities. He is frightened by change and adheres to strict routines (for example, his continual repetition of the "Who's on First?" sketch). Except when he is in distress, he shows little emotional expression and avoids eye contact. "

--Rain Man, Wikipedia

 

[MeeBee]

I'm very serious.

I've been thinking about this a lot in the back of my mind.

The wrong people were sent to diagnose her.

Two psychologists who gave her tests--

RS made a diagnosis of PTSD right off the bat and gave her a test to confirm it. Well, of course she had PTSD, if not before the murder, for sure after it.

Dr. D gave her a barrage of tests that showed a LOT of problems according to Dr. G. They showed a cry for help and anxiety off the scales. But, they didn't show any personality disorders. They also showed she has a genius IQ for language, as high as it scores.

Dr. D., like Dr. S, was looking for her own bias, a personality disorder. But, her diagnosis of BPD was not confirmed by her own tests. So she punted it.

AVL was looking for abuse. And she found it. It's not her job to make a diagnosis of autism or anything else for that matter.

Jodi would be abused if she is in the wrong environment, as would any high functioning autistic.

Watch the movie Rain Man again.

But, Daryl loved her and gave her a kind, supporting, loving environment and she flourished in it.

Everyone agrees something is 'off' with her. Everyone makes fun of her exceptional recall of things.

Some expert needs to test her for autism.

IMO



"Raymond has autism, and one of the manifestations of his condition is his superb recall, albeit usually with little understanding of the subject matter. He is also a mental calculator with the ability to instantly count hundreds of objects at once, far beyond the normal range of human subitizing abilities. He is frightened by change and adheres to strict routines (for example, his continual repetition of the "Who's on First?" sketch). Except when he is in distress, he shows little emotional expression and avoids eye contact. "

--Rain Man, Wikipedia

Everything you've outlined can be explained by her sociopathy, from her inappropriate use of big words, to the cold stare, to her attempts to make people believe she's a great artist/photographer (her magazine ad tracings point to this). Her "excepional recal" is a result of fantastical storytelling, not that she is actually recalling every little detail of her life (she can remember which direction she was facing in a Starbucks parking lot 5 years ago but can't remember the name of the salon she visited?) She has put forth the image that she is very intelligent, and in some ways she is. But she is not a savant. No way. There is no way Jodi is autistic.

ALV was looking for abuse and found it in even the most mundane of interactions (asking someone to empty their vmail inbox is abusive?) I don't trust any of her "findings" because she is not forthcoming.

 

[molly333]

Everything you've outlined can be explained by her sociopathy, from her inappropriate use of big words, to the cold stare, to her attempts to make people believe she's a great artist/photographer (her magazine ad tracings point to this). Her "excepional recal" is a result of fantastical storytelling, not that she is actually recalling every little detail of her life (she can remember which direction she was facing in a Starbucks parking lot 5 years ago but can't remember the name of the salon she visited?) She has put forth the image that she is very intelligent, and in some ways she is. But she is not a savant. No way. There is no way Jodi is autistic.

Well, I disagree strongly. Sociopath/psychopath never fit her. Plus, she scores very low for psychopathy on the tests that are meant to diagnose that disorder.

The cold stare--low level autistics sit and stare and spin objects and stare and stare.

The artistic talent--this is another idiot savant quality. You might not like her art but I can only draw stick figures even if I'm trying to copy something. But, notice there is no creativity in her art, even though it is well done.

Her exceptional recall is accurate--as pointed out by people who were there. Notice Abe saying, yes she got the drink right from four years ago--that is the drink I would have ordered at that restaurant.

And, everyone says--who notices a drink and remembers it for four years? A high functioning autistic, that's who.

High intelligence--She is not putting forth her high intelligence. Her scores show she is highly intelligent and she is as high as it goes in the area of language. This is how she is able to mask her autism from others. But over time, she doesn't do it very well, does she?

Idiot Savant is a name for autistics who have exceptional abilities in some areas and no ability in just functioning as a normal human being--because they have autism.

Daryl said--What happened to her in the 18 months leading up to the killing? What happened to her? She never lied, she wasn't evil, she was sweet, caring and loving. He knew her for four years. But, it was the environment that he created for her that allowed her to flourish.

The lies are coming from a mentally ill person who doesn't understand what happened to her and is scared out of her wits. Half the time the lies don't even make sense.

IMO

 

[molly333]

Savant syndrome is a condition in which a person with serious mental disabilities, including autistic disorder, demonstrates profound and prodigious capacities and/or abilities far in excess of what would be considered normal.[1][2][3] People with savant syndrome may have neurodevelopmental disorders, notably autism spectrum disorders and/or brain injuries. Although the most dramatic examples are seen in individuals who score very low on IQ tests, they also demonstrate exceptional skills or brilliance in specific areas, such as rapid calculation, art, memory, or musical ability.[4][5][6][7] In spite of the name "syndrome", it is not recognized as a mental disorder nor as part of mental disorder in medical manuals such as the ICD-10[8] or the DSM-IV.[9]

According to psychiatrist Darold Treffert, almost all savants have prodigious memory which he describes as "very deep, but exceedingly narrow". It is narrow in the sense that savants may exhibit exceptional memory but have difficulty putting it to use. Some individuals with savant syndrome also have keen sense of priority, which can involve a broad understanding of politics, law and a conceivably heightened vocabulary. Savant skills are usually found in one or more of five major areas: art, musical abilities, calendar calculation, mathematics and spatial skills.[1] 50% of savants have autism; the other 50% often have psychological disorders, brain injuries, or mental illnesses.[1]


--Wikipedia, Savant Syndrome

"Idiot Savant"

 

[Linda7NJ]

http://www.lovefraud.com/2009/02/06/sociopaths-cluster-b-personality-disorders-and-psychopathy/

It's my opinion autism isn't even a remote possibility.

The link above explains Jodi as well as darn near everyone's opinion on a diagnosis for her. HTH


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[molly333]

Jodi's Savant characteristics are in the area of language and art.

Someone should give her a Monet to copy. I bet she would do it perfectly.

Her language ability is what fools everyone. But, if you listen to her talk long enough, it is clear that she does not have a firm grasp of reality, even if she lies, as would be expected of autism.

It's also unusual for autistics to have savant qualities in language. The average autistic hardly even talks. But, notice Jodi was described as quiet.

IMO

 

[molly333]

http://www.lovefraud.com/2009/02/06/sociopaths-cluster-b-personality-disorders-and-psychopathy/

It's my opinion autism isn't even a remote possibility.

The link above explains Jodi as well as darn near everyone's opinion on a diagnosis for her. HTH


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It doesn't fit. She scored very low in the tests that diagnose psychopathy and these tests had a scale which showed the test was accurate.

One other clue to me was how much people make fun of her. People can be very cruel to those with disabilities and we see this cruelty towards Jodi. Even the media is doing it now, to raise their ratings.

People don't make fun of the cunning psychopaths of the world who are usually not even noticed because they fit in so well.

If a psychopath is not in jail by 20 years old, chances are good he will do well in the world.

IMO

 

[molly333]

A big tip off to her lawyers should have been that crazy story she told of the gun.

They had to have known that story would never withstand scrutiny.

As ALV said, she's not a good liar. But, her lawyers should have seen that and it should have been a red flag to them that something was wrong.

IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

So--I think I've finally figured Jodi out.

Notice she didn't score high for any of the personality disorders on the tests that flag those disorders.

The young Dr D. tried to cobble together a borderline diagnosis but Dr. G. disagreed because that test is not meant to diagnose, and those characteristics Dr. D. pointed to also flag PTSD and high anxiety.

But characteristics Dr. D. did note were immaturity and instablity.

We also know that Jodi was not great at taking cues from people. People would ask her to leave their house and she would go and sit in the kitchen for an hour watching them.

People would note creepy looks in her eyes--she seemed to stare unendingly. We have seen her do this ourselves.

She is only able to handle low level jobs and cannot hold down jobs unless within a supportive structure like Daryl, in spite of being so smart.

She did very well with Daryl for four years and he noted her sweetness and that she was a loving, caring individual.

But she didn't do well when she stepped into the more complex society of the mormons and ppl. She equated sex with love but was never able to adequately express this, taking on the characteristics of the man she loved.

Jodi is a high functioning autistic, imo.

People miss it because she is so smart. She masks it with her command of language.

But people have commented on her odd use of language and how it is very cerebral, as if she is disconnected from what she is saying.

The State of Arizona is about to execute a mentally retarded girl because she has never been properly diagnosed.

She is an idiot savant, but autistic nevertheless.

She's not evil, she is an autistic girl who got in over her head.

This is the saddest thing I"ve ever seen.

IMO

Iirc she needed to meet 5 out 9 of the criteria for borderline ...she exceeded that....Only impulsivity and paranoia were not met.

For you to claim she didn't score high is false.




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[molly333]

Iirc she needed to meet 5 out 9 of the criteria for borderline ...she exceeded that....Only impulsivity and paranoia were not met.

For you to claim she didn't score high is false.




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I am saying that she did not score for borderline on the tests that are meant to diagnose that disorder.

She doesn't have borderline or it would have been seen by the tests.

And, Dr. D should have known that.

What I am claiming may not be right, but it is not false.

Someone needs to test Jodi for autism.

IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

It doesn't fit. She scored very low in the tests that diagnose psychopathy and these tests had a scale which showed the test was accurate.

One other clue to me was how much people make fun of her. People can be very cruel to those with disabilities and we see this cruelty towards Jodi. Even the media is doing it now, to raise their ratings.

People don't make fun of the cunning psychopaths of the world who are usually not even noticed because they fit in so well.

If a psychopath is not in jail by 20 years old, chances are good he will do well in the world.

IMO

The MMPI isn't used to diagnose psychopathy. It's a tool to access personality. Period.

The PCL-r was not administered. It's the Gold Standard.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._factor_structure/file/79e41508e810ce98d9.pdf

http://forensic-centre.com/files/PCL-R Basic workshop - Cardiff 2008.doc




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[BritsKate]

Iirc she needed to meet 5 out 9 of the criteria for borderline ...she exceeded that....Only impulsivity and paranoia were not met.

For you to claim she didn't score high is false.




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ITA. Even Samuels dx'd PD NOS. Dr. Geffner never met with Jodi, obviously a necessary predicate for any diagnosis, in addition to any psychological assessment.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am saying that she did not score for borderline on the tests that are meant to diagnose that disorder.

She doesn't have borderline or it would have been seen by the tests.

And, Dr. D should have known that.

What I am claiming may not be right, but it is not false.

Someone needs to test Jodi for autism.

IMO

Tests don't make a diagnosis. They are a tool. One of many.


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[Gecko100]

It doesn't fit. She scored very low in the tests that diagnose psychopathy and these tests had a scale which showed the test was accurate.

One other clue to me was how much people make fun of her. People can be very cruel to those with disabilities and we see this cruelty towards Jodi. Even the media is doing it now, to raise their ratings.

People don't make fun of the cunning psychopaths of the world who are usually not even noticed because they fit in so well.

If a psychopath is not in jail by 20 years old, chances are good he will do well in the world.

IMO

There is no way on this or any other earth that she is a sexually sadistic Anti Social Personality Disorder. Having worked with them just about all of my career, she is nowhere remotely near it and if she was people would not still be asking questions about it. It's just possible she may be a particular personality TYPE in the Jungian sense of the word, and it is totally misunderstood by the majority type. I can sense a real difference in type on these forums, and clear delineation between intuitive and sensate types. Am I the only one?
To be at the end of a DP trial and still be asking questions suggests that all is not well in the state of Denmark.

 

[Linda7NJ]

ITA. Even Samuels dx'd PD NOS. Dr. Geffner never met with Jodi, obviously a necessary predicate for any diagnosis, in addition to any psychological assessment.

JMO

Samuels stopped exploring that personality disorder because that's not what he was paid to do. That's what defense experts do.

ALV was paid to find something anything that would support Jodi's self defense claim....with very limited information.. Basically in a defense vacuum,

All imo

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[molly333]

The MMPI isn't used to diagnose psychopathy. It's a tool to access personality. Period.

The PCL-r was not administered. It's the Gold Standard.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._factor_structure/file/79e41508e810ce98d9.pdf

http://forensic-centre.com/files/PCL-R Basic workshop - Cardiff 2008.doc




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Right. The MMPI is not used for diagnosing personality disorders as Dr. Geffner said. But that is the test that Dr. Demarte used to diagnose Jodi as a personality disorder.

It is the MCMI that is geared to showing personality disorders and Jodi tested normal on that test for all personality disorders. That's because she doesn't have a personality disorder.





According to Geffner, the MMPI test used by the State psychologist Dr. Janeen DeMarte to diagnose Arias with Borderline Personality Disorder was not geared for detecting personality disorders. Geffner added that the more appropriate test would have been the MILAN MCMI, the test administered by defense expert Dr Richard Samuels.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/05/03/get-caught-week-18-jodi-arias-trial

 

[Linda7NJ]

There is no way on this or any other earth that she is a sexually sadistic Anti Social Personality Disorder. Having worked with them just about all of my career, she is nowhere remotely near it and if she was people would not still be asking questions about it. It's just possible she may be a particular personality TYPE in the Jungian sense of the word, and it is totally misunderstood by the majority type. I can sense a real difference in type on these forums, and clear delineation between intuitive and sensate types. Am I the only one?
To be at the end of a DP trial and still be asking questions suggests that all is not well in the state of Denmark.

Who said she was sexually sadistic and had ASPD? I don't recall reading that here. I could make an argument for ASPD....but sexually sadistic? not IMO. I believe she uses sex as a tool to manipulate.... Nothing more.

Whose asking questions? It's my opinion there is an overwhelming consensus.

I thought you worked in child protection?


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