Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[Linda7NJ]

And Jodi is on live in 15 minutes. She refused to go on w out having make up.

To quote another .. "Waste Huge Waste"




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[molly333]

BBM

Umm......no, it's because she doesn't regret slaughtering TA, nearly decapitating him, nor does she have any shame. She's a psychopath.

You might want to read a book or article written by the foremost authority of psychopathy, Dr. Robert Hare.

I read Hare's book a looong time ago.


Here's an article in psychology today by a clinical psychiatrist. He says Jodi Arias is not a Sociopath and explains why.



Is Jodi Arias a Sociopath?

Is Jodi Arias a battered woman, obsessive woman, a femme fatale or a sociopath?

Published on March 11, 2013 by Dale Archer, M.D. in Reading Between the (Head)Lines
*snip*


Before age 15 and continuing, a history of antisocial behavior: Here is the real problem with labeling Arias as a sociopath. This condition starts in the young teen years, if not before. It is a persistent and consistent behavior over the first three to four decades of the individual- some say for a lifetime. No one has come forward with any prior behavioral issues, legal issues, problems with work, family or friends. She was reportedly a very "good girl" in high school and very “normal”. At this time there are no known problems with previous boyfriends.

Jodi Arias, as you can see, fits the sociopath profile in many, many ways, except for the most important criteria. There is no past history. Based on this, unless there is much we do not know she does not technically meet the DSM IV criteria as a sociopath.

So, now the question is why did she do it? That's the million dollar question.



*snip*

Some experts claim she's a sociopath and it would be easy to bend the rules and say she is close enough to the diagnosis. She lied, disregarded everyone but herself, manipulated, conned, deceived, took a life and refuses to express remorse. But all this occurred after she met Alexander. There was nothing before that.



http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reading-between-the-headlines/201303/is-jodi-arias-sociopath


IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

I read Hare's book a looong time ago.


Here's an article in psychology today by a clinical psychiatrist. He says Jodi Arias is not a Sociopath and explains why.



Is Jodi Arias a Sociopath?

Is Jodi Arias a battered woman, obsessive woman, a femme fatale or a sociopath?

Published on March 11, 2013 by Dale Archer, M.D. in Reading Between the (Head)Lines
*snip*


Before age 15 and continuing, a history of antisocial behavior: Here is the real problem with labeling Arias as a sociopath. This condition starts in the young teen years, if not before. It is a persistent and consistent behavior over the first three to four decades of the individual- some say for a lifetime. No one has come forward with any prior behavioral issues, legal issues, problems with work, family or friends. She was reportedly a very "good girl" in high school and very “normal”. At this time there are no known problems with previous boyfriends.

Jodi Arias, as you can see, fits the sociopath profile in many, many ways, except for the most important criteria. There is no past history. Based on this, unless there is much we do not know she does not technically meet the DSM IV criteria as a sociopath.

So, now the question is why did she do it? That's the million dollar question.



*snip*

Some experts claim she's a sociopath and it would be easy to bend the rules and say she is close enough to the diagnosis. She lied, disregarded everyone but herself, manipulated, conned, deceived, took a life and refuses to express remorse. But all this occurred after she met Alexander. There was nothing before that.



http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reading-between-the-headlines/201303/is-jodi-arias-sociopath


IMO

"Hares book" ? A book? lol

He is the WORLDS LEADING expert on the topic of psychopathy.
Please start here

http://www.hare.org/






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[molly333]

I've seen some interesting rationalizations for Jodi, but idiot savant takes the cake.

I also never questioned that Jodi is intelligent. Of course she is. But her 119 IQ isn't highly intelligent. My husband's IQ falls into the highly intelligent range at 137. Jodi wouldn't even qualify for the T and G classes at most schools. It is above average, bright. But most college students have an IQ around the same range. Fortunately, her high IQ means she will never be able to claim "retardation."

Demarte didn't use the tests as the sole diagnostic tool. She said this. She also said it's not wise to rely on the tests alone because Jodi may have been, and seemed to be manipulating them. She used a set of criteria to diagnose Jodi and needed anecdotal evidence from her life, her journals, the people she knew, etc. Demarte seems to be the only expert who got closest to the heart of Jodi's pathology. She said her IQ test was interesting because while all the other scores were average, the verbal score was very high, which is unusual. I read that such a thing signals a disconnect which could point to, among other things, ASPD.

There was a score that was very high on the test, like in the hundreds. The initial was PD. Willmott asked what that was and Demarte said it meant psychopathic deviance. Willmott moved on without inquiring further. I don't know what exactly psychopathic deviance means, but there is a reason why Willmott did not implore about it and moved on quickly, when every other part of the test was picked apart by her.

This girl is a sociopath. No doubt about it.

The IQ score and its rating refers to the test. One can't just throw around IQ scores. One has to relate it to the specific IQ test.

Dr. D told us that for the IQ test that she gave Jodi, her overall score of 119 is in the highly intelligent range, and her specific score in verbal in the high 130's is as high as it gets.

So, yes, Jodi is very smart. But, she does not have the ability to relate to people except in a contrived way, and I think this is best described by autism.

Dr. Geffner explained that you have to see a consistency of behavior over years. You can't take one behavior from ten years ago, and another behavior from five years ago, and another from two years ago, and lump them together to create a personality disorder. You will see all the behaviors manifesting altogether consistently from middle school to the present. That's what Dr. D. did not see.

He said what you are calling "the PD score" related to empathy, not psychopathy, that it was poorly named.

IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

The IQ score and its rating refers to the test. One can't just throw around IQ scores. One has to relate it to the specific IQ test.

Dr. D told us that for the IQ test that she gave Jodi, her overall score of 119 is in the highly intelligent range, and her specific score in verbal in the high 130's is as high as it gets.

So, yes, Jodi is very smart. But, she does not have the ability to relate to people except in a contrived way, and I think this is best described by autism.

IMO

119 is high average

Far from super genius.... No where near Einstein


I don't understand your reply about IQ score when the original poster was discussing her psychopathic deviance scores from the MMPI

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[Linda7NJ]

I read Hare's book a looong time ago.


Here's an article in psychology today by a clinical psychiatrist. He says Jodi Arias is not a Sociopath and explains why.



Is Jodi Arias a Sociopath?

Is Jodi Arias a battered woman, obsessive woman, a femme fatale or a sociopath?

Published on March 11, 2013 by Dale Archer, M.D. in Reading Between the (Head)Lines
*snip*


Before age 15 and continuing, a history of antisocial behavior: Here is the real problem with labeling Arias as a sociopath. This condition starts in the young teen years, if not before. It is a persistent and consistent behavior over the first three to four decades of the individual- some say for a lifetime. No one has come forward with any prior behavioral issues, legal issues, problems with work, family or friends. She was reportedly a very "good girl" in high school and very “normal”. At this time there are no known problems with previous boyfriends.

Jodi Arias, as you can see, fits the sociopath profile in many, many ways, except for the most important criteria. There is no past history. Based on this, unless there is much we do not know she does not technically meet the DSM IV criteria as a sociopath.

So, now the question is why did she do it? That's the million dollar question.



*snip*

Some experts claim she's a sociopath and it would be easy to bend the rules and say she is close enough to the diagnosis. She lied, disregarded everyone but herself, manipulated, conned, deceived, took a life and refuses to express remorse. But all this occurred after she met Alexander. There was nothing before that.



http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reading-between-the-headlines/201303/is-jodi-arias-sociopath


IMO

We have all learned much since March

Growing weed in the 8th grade
Kicking family dog
In constant trouble at home for not following rules
Stealing the car after her father disabled it
Cutting school
Invasion of privacy and boundary issues with at least two prior men.

Oh and Willmont was kind enough today to inform us one of her friends when she was even younger..4-6 grade IIRC said she was manipulative and liked to play the victim.

That's a life long pattern.

That's psychopathy!!!

And that's just we know about...



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[molly333]

"Hares book" ? A book? lol

He is the worlds for most expert on the topic of psychopathy.

Please start here

http://www.hare.org/






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Like I said, I know all about Hare.

But, Jodi scored very low on psychopath personality disorder on the tests she took, so that is pretty much ruled out for me.

Also, like the clinical psychiatrist in the article said she did not manifest these types of symptoms until recently, and this disorder shows up consistently from early adolescence and before--probably because it has to do with the faulty structure of the brain.

You know, things like burning things down, killing animals, bed wetting, and an array of other symptoms.

IMO

 

[molly333]

We have all learned much since March

Growing weed in the 8th grade
Kicking family dog
In constant trouble at home for not following rules
Stealing the car after her father disabled it
Cutting school
Invasion of privacy and boundary issues with at least two prior men.

Oh and Willmont was kind enough today to inform us one of her friends when she was even younger..4-6 grade IIRC said she was manipulative and liked to play the victim.

That's a life long pattern.

That's psychopathy!!!

And that's just we know about...



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That's all normal adolescent behavior. Did she spend any time in prison before the age of 27? Nope. Did she show the full spectrum of behaviors in Hare's list in a consistent way? Nope.

According to Daryl, she didn't show one symptom over the four years she was with him.

IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Like I said, I know all about Hare.

But, Jodi scored very low on psychopath personality disorder on the tests she took, so that is pretty much ruled out for me.

Also, like the clinical psychiatrist in the article said she did not manifest these types of symptoms until recently, and this disorder shows up consistently from early adolescence and before--probably because it has to do with the faulty structure of the brain.

You know, things like burning things down, killing animals, bed wetting, and an array of other symptoms.

IMO

By your own admission you read ONE book by Hare, years ago. I hardly think that qualifies as knowing "all about Hare"

THE Dr. Robert Hares massive body of work isn't reduced to a single book.

You said:
"But, Jodi scored very low on psychopath personality disorder on the tests she took, so that is pretty much ruled out for me."

That is absolutely false on more levels than I care to explain.

The previous link provided the psychology today article by some "clinical psychologist" that based his opinion on THE INFORMATION in the MEDIA AT TIME just isn't up to snuff no matter how you cut it.






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[Linda7NJ]

That's all normal adolescent behavior. Did she spend any time in prison before the age of 27? Nope. Did she show the full spectrum of behaviors in Hare's list in a consistent way? Nope.

According to Daryl, she didn't show one symptom over the four years she was with him.

IMO

Daryl's opinion means little to me. He's a man old enough to be her father...IMO he could over look a lot. Who knows what line of BS she was spoon feeding him... She certainly kept her parents far away from him. It's my opinion she triangulated and puts wedges between people to manipulate. Examples of that are found in abundance.

Her parents on the other hand, in their unguarded raw interview with Dect Flores spoke volumes to me. They knew something was seriously wrong with her. IMO they knew for a long time.






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[molly333]

By your own admission you read ONE book by Hare, years ago. I hardly think that qualifies as knowing "all about Hare"

THE Dr. Robert Hares massive body of work isn't reduced to a single book.

You said:
"But, Jodi scored very low on psychopath personality disorder on the tests she took, so that is pretty much ruled out for me."

That is absolutely false on more levels than I care to explain.

The previous link provided the psychology today article by some "clinical psychologist" that based his opinion on THE INFORMATION in the MEDIA AT TIME just isn't up to snuff no matter how you cut it.






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Geffner testified Wednesday that Arias psychological test results support a diagnosis of post-traumatic stress disorder instead of a personality disorder.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/05/01/live-blog-will-last-witness-be-arias-lifeline

I never said I just read one book by Hare. Hare is the granddaddy of the study of psychopaths. He is like ALV to DV and Geffner to testing. These people are all the best in their fields and pioneers. I have great respect for Hare.

IMO

 

[molly333]

Daryl's opinion means little to me. He's a man old enough to be her father...IMO he could over look a lot. Who knows what line of BS she was spoon feeding him... She certainly kept her parents far away from him. It's my opinion she triangulated and puts wedges between people to manipulate. Examples of that are found in abundance.

Her parents on the other hand, in their unguarded raw interview with Dect Flores spoke volumes to me. They knew something was seriously wrong with her. IMO they knew for a long time.






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Something is seriously wrong with her. It's just not ASPD. She scored low in the tests for that. She scored high for passivity, low for dominance, too and low for self esteem. She scored very high for anxiety issues.

She also scored low for empathy. This doesn't make her a psychopath all by itself although it might make her look like one to people.

IMO

 

[Beaglemania]

Like I said, I know all about Hare.

But, Jodi scored very low on psychopath personality disorder on the tests she took, so that is pretty much ruled out for me.

Also, like the clinical psychiatrist in the article said she did not manifest these types of symptoms until recently, and this disorder shows up consistently from early adolescence and before--probably because it has to do with the faulty structure of the brain.

You know, things like burning things down, killing animals, bed wetting, and an array of other symptoms.

IMO

The clinical psychiatrist in the Psychology Today article did not evaluate Jodi nor did he treat her. That entire article as it relates to his assessment of Jodi Ann Arias is nothing more than speculation. It was a headline grabber for that rag of a pop-culture magazine.

In the same vein, Dr. Geffner also did not evaluate Jodi. Most of what he proffered, concerning Jodi, was gleaned from his review of the Dr. Demarte's notes... all of which he wholly misinterpreted.

 

[Beaglemania]

That's all normal adolescent behavior. Did she spend any time in prison before the age of 27? Nope. Did she show the full spectrum of behaviors in Hare's list in a consistent way? Nope.

According to Daryl, she didn't show one symptom over the four years she was with him.

IMO

These are not normal adolescent behaviors. Daryl Brewer is not a clinician. I would liken him to more of a "broken individual" who fell hard and fast in love with a manipulative, self-absorbed harlett. In otherwords he was p-whipped.

 

[molly333]

The clinicalpsychiatrist in the Psychology Today article did not evaluate Jodi nor did he treat her. That entire article as it relates to his assessment of Jodi Ann Arias is nothing more than speculation. It was a headline grabber for that rag of a pop-culture magazine.

In the same vein, Dr. Geffner also did not evaluate Jodi. Most of what he proffered, concerning Jodi, was gleaned from his review of the Dr. Demarte's notes... all of which he wholly misinterpreted.

I disagree regarding Dr. Geffner. He knows how to interpret those tests. He helped develop them. Dr. D was 3 years out of school compared to Dr. G's 30 years experience.

As far as the article is concerned, it shows why people might think she is a sociopath and why the known data about her says she isn't. I thought it was instructive and interesting, which was all it was meant to be.

IMO

 

[molly333]

These are not normal adolescent behaviors. Daryl Brewer is not a clinician. I would liken him to more of a "broken individual" who fell hard and fast in love with a manipulative, self-absorbed harlett. In otherwords he was p-whipped.

You mean adolescents are known for their good behavior?

Oh, ok. lol

IMO

 

[Beaglemania]

Geffner testified Wednesday that Arias psychological test results support a diagnosis of post-traumatic stress disorder instead of a personality disorder.http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/05/01/live-blog-will-last-witness-be-arias-lifeline

I never said I just read one book by Hare. Hare is the granddaddy of the study of psychopaths. He is like ALV to DV and Geffner to testing. These people are all the best in their fields and pioneers. I have great respect for Hare.

IMO

BBM: Of course Dr. Geffner would spew that BS....he had to make it fit with that other charleton, Dr. Samuels' diagnosis. Together with Alice LaViolette, the three of them served only to make ONE huge mockery of the mental health professions. They are an embarrassment to the field.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I read Hare's book a looong time ago.


Here's an article in psychology today by a clinical psychiatrist. He says Jodi Arias is not a Sociopath and explains why.



Is Jodi Arias a Sociopath?

Is Jodi Arias a battered woman, obsessive woman, a femme fatale or a sociopath?

Published on March 11, 2013 by Dale Archer, M.D. in Reading Between the (Head)Lines
*snip*


Before age 15 and continuing, a history of antisocial behavior: Here is the real problem with labeling Arias as a sociopath. This condition starts in the young teen years, if not before. It is a persistent and consistent behavior over the first three to four decades of the individual- some say for a lifetime. No one has come forward with any prior behavioral issues, legal issues, problems with work, family or friends. She was reportedly a very "good girl" in high school and very “normal”. At this time there are no known problems with previous boyfriends.

Jodi Arias, as you can see, fits the sociopath profile in many, many ways, except for the most important criteria. There is no past history. Based on this, unless there is much we do not know she does not technically meet the DSM IV criteria as a sociopath.

So, now the question is why did she do it? That's the million dollar question.



*snip*

Some experts claim she's a sociopath and it would be easy to bend the rules and say she is close enough to the diagnosis. She lied, disregarded everyone but herself, manipulated, conned, deceived, took a life and refuses to express remorse. But all this occurred after she met Alexander. There was nothing before that.



http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reading-between-the-headlines/201303/is-jodi-arias-sociopath


IMO

Perhaps I'm confused, I pulled your post up to read it again. It appears to me you may have read a book long time ago....

Then it appears to me you used the article from Psychology Today ....made sure to bold what I would suspect you believed would trump Dr Hares body of work. ( which I believe at the time of the above post you were unaware of)

Now you seem to be claiming something else entirely. Not buying it.

I'm too tired to continue with whatever it is you're up to. I'm gonna pull a Nurmi and withdraw ...




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[Beaglemania]

You mean adolescents are known for their good behavior?

Oh, ok. lol

IMO

Cutting school occasionally is normal. Stealing cars, growing pot and willfully abusing family pets is not normal by any twist of one's imagination. Jodi Ann Arias not autistic. She never was autistic and she never will be autistic. Jodi Ann Arias is a narcissitic, sociopathic murderer who is completely incapable of experiencing and expressing any semblence of normal emotions.

 

[molly333]

Cutting school occasionally is normal. Stealing cars, growing pot and willfully abusing family pets is not normal by any twist of one's imagination. Jodi Ann Arias not autistic. She never was autistic and she never will be autistic. Jodi Ann Arias is a narcissitic, sociopathic murderer who is completely incapable of experiencing and expressing any semblence of normal emotions.

She was looked at by 6 or 7 people in the field of psychology.

Did any one of them call her a psychopath?