Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[Gecko100]

It's some online test a few people here took and shared the results of. If ya scroll up and read through posts by Gecko100 she explains it.

*i* don't really understand it

Are you meaning the theory or the meaning and difference between iNtuition and sensate. Don't be 'pushy' lol.

 

[molly333]

Are you seriously going to NOW argue she's NORMAL ?
Her ONLY issue is ANXIETY?

tHUD

Makes you scratch your head, doesn't it?

But that's what the summation of her test scores indicated.

Dr. D. took a leap into borderline using a test that is not to be used for diagnosis of that disorder, especially when the test that is to be used for the diagnosis of that disorder says she's not.



I could only find one study on MMPI and Autism. It's a small study and by no means the final word on anything but it's interesting .



Abstract
The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory-Second Edition was administered to 20 adults with autism spectrum disorders (ASD) who fell in the average to above average range of intelligence and 24 age-, intelligence-, and gender-matched college students. Large group differences, with the ASD group scoring higher, were found on the L validity scale, Clinical Scales 2 (D) and 0 (Is), Content scale Social Discomfort (SOD), Supplementary scale Repression (R), and Personality Psychopathology Five (PSY-5) scale INTR (Introversion). The proportion of ASD adults scoring in the clinical range on these scales was between 25% and 35%. High scores on these scales are consistent with the clinical picture of Asperger syndrome and high-functioning autism in adulthood. Future directions and implications for identifying adults in need of a specialized autism assessment are discussed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15695746





A grad student describes the results of the study, and the results sound a lot like Jodi's test results.

High on depression. High on anxiety. High on PTSD indicators. High on social discomfort scale.

High on low self esteem scale. High on stress scale. Low on ego strength scale.



http://aspieperspective.blogspot.com/2009/03/autistic-personality-disorder.html

:seeya:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Are you meaning the theory or the meaning and difference between iNtuition and sensate. Don't be 'pushy' lol.

Any of it...or it's purpose or what my goal for improvement would be....how to tell, etc...

 

[Gecko100]

All the strides we thought we've made in women's movement and then the reality hits just how much more work is needed.

It's interesting to me because the dialectic of meta-modernism or the opposites like man/woman hard/soft etc. is coming into focus.
The world is undergoing a paradigm shift from post-post modernism to meta-modernism.
It's taking place now in cyberspace so the old arguments are due for revival. Have faith, there are bunches of feminist theorist pursuing the feminist digital age, and it has to happen because it has become a concern universally, in cyberspace. Opposites are going to be a feature of this age.
We can see it happening in this forum as dialogue taking place in what is effectively in 'space'.
Where might the 'space' begin and end? It's out there in the universe.
Apologies to anyone who finds my theoretical stuff annoying.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Makes you scratch your head, doesn't it?

But that's what the summation of her test scores indicated.

Dr. D. took a leap into borderline using a test that is not to be used for diagnosis of that disorder, especially when the test that is to be used for the diagnosis of that disorder says she's not.



I could only find one study on MMPI and Autism. It's a small study and by no means the final word on anything but it's interesting .



Abstract
The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory-Second Edition was administered to 20 adults with autism spectrum disorders (ASD) who fell in the average to above average range of intelligence and 24 age-, intelligence-, and gender-matched college students. Large group differences, with the ASD group scoring higher, were found on the L validity scale, Clinical Scales 2 (D) and 0 (Is), Content scale Social Discomfort (SOD), Supplementary scale Repression (R), and Personality Psychopathology Five (PSY-5) scale INTR (Introversion). The proportion of ASD adults scoring in the clinical range on these scales was between 25% and 35%. High scores on these scales are consistent with the clinical picture of Asperger syndrome and high-functioning autism in adulthood. Future directions and implications for identifying adults in need of a specialized autism assessment are discussed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15695746





A grad student describes the results of the study, and the results sound a lot like Jodi's test results.

High on depression. High on anxiety. High on PTSD indicators. High on social discomfort scale.

High on low self esteem scale. High on stress scale. Low on ego strength scale.



http://aspieperspective.blogspot.com/2009/03/autistic-personality-disorder.html

:seeya:

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, I just don't share it.:seeya:

 

[Gecko100]

Any of it...or it's purpose or what my goal for improvement would be....how to tell, etc...

Oh ok, the purpose is firstly identify your gifts which you already know to be ENFJ.
Secondly it is to help you identifying parts you may need to strengthen to make you more whole.
Thirdly it identifies people for you who may not speak your 'language' and aids in moderating issues which might come between you and others.
Fourthly it enriches and confirms ourself beliefs, as you were able to identify.
Fifthly if we don't do it, we become one dimensional beings.

Your 'shadow type' is ISTP, and if we were to lack attention to our shadows, under stress we will exhibit an immature form of ISTP, if you read about that type it may make you feel a little uncomfortable, because that type will rub you up the wrong way like you might to them. They would be less offensive to me, because we share the traits ITP.
It is very useful in many ways but blending both sides as equally as possible contains a form of alchemical magic like finding the holy grail, and the inner peace of understanding self and others.
We share one traits on the Inituition, so you may not follow me and my language because I am a strongly intuitive thinker who values deep thinking.
Reading each others type can help identify their gifts.
Only around 30% of the community are intuitive naturally, although we all possess each other's qualities, some prefer it more than others.
So you prefer to be ENFJ, as much as ISTP's do, but communication between you could be troublesome.
Not recognising other gifts can make people feel misunderstood.
Your goal, is to be alone more by yourself, appreciate the concrete and real, to be more logical and wait a bit before making conclusions and to exercise spontaneous non-planned adventure and fun. Relax a little because you are very driven. Turn up late sometimes, challenge your 'rules' etc.
As I said your personality type is a charismatic leader but could go even further by the recognition and strengthening of less preferred elements.
It's not natural and is hard work, but work and ongoing individuations from parental programming is very achievable. If you you look into this further, you will find yourself doing typology on kids pets countries etc. There is current research to suggest that kids will self choose careers, but the ones who may be less common might be completely mismatched their schools.
I was born in a family nest of sensate's dropped by a cuckoo bird. We did not understand each other at all.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Oh ok, the purpose is firstly identify your gifts which you already know to be ENFJ.
Secondly it is to help you identifying parts you may need to strengthen to make you more whole.
Thirdly it identifies people for you who may not speak your 'language' and aids in moderating issues which might come between you and others.
Fourthly it enriches and confirms ourself beliefs, as you were able to identify.
Fifthly if we don't do it, we become one dimensional beings.

Your 'shadow type' is ISTP, and if we were to lack attention to our shadows, under stress we will exhibit an immature form of ISTP, if you read about that type it may make you feel a little uncomfortable, because that type will rub you up the wrong way like you might to them. They would be less offensive to me, because we share the traits ITP.
It is very useful in many ways but blending both sides as equally as possible contains a form of alchemic magic like finding the holy grail, and the inner peace of understanding self and others.

So which parts do I need to strengthen ...that score of mine that's 75%? How do I do that? The rest seem pretty close to equally balanced.

How can it help me to moderate with my opposites?

Please explain this Shadow thingy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nancy_Drew]

Something else is going on with Jodi. If it's not a personality disorder, what is it?

Demons!

 

[Nancy_Drew]

Probably more than half of the items in this list have nothing concrete to back them up. We'd have to be gods to know another's unspoken, private thoughts, such as "I'm smarter than everyone" and "every guy wants me." This is, I think, putting the cart before the horse, by deciding on the diagnosis first, and then presenting the symptoms to fit it.

What is a pathological seducer? Someone who has had more than 2 partners? How does dating and sexual activity differ from seduction? I understand that seduction is manipulation, but, again, if you decide someone is a manipulator first, then every date/relationship they've had can be defined as seduction.

I say this not just about Jodi, but anyone we think we can "know" with scant, real evidence.

And everyone, I would have to say, has a "motive" for everything they say and do. Their motives may be good or bad or neutral, but just having motives is not pathological.

I'm not saying, of course, that Jodi's psychology is not abnormal. But I don't see the value of an inflated list of flimsy or insupportable proofs, particularly when the items rely on circular arguments or confirmation bias.

Not everything Jodi does is abnormal. Some "psychologist" on HLN today was yelling about Jodi's plan to appeal the sentence, if it's the death sentence. She said that was "typical" for Jodi, that weirdo Jodi was always out for herself, by dragging things out. I found that so funny! Even standard, normal legal procedures are a sign of her personality disorder? I mean, why is this slant, which flies in the face of common sense, necessary?

It was a list (in layman's terms) of behaviors I have observed... I wanted to make a list so it would help me see everything I have observed about her personality and then decided which disorder all the traits fell into...

It was hard to decide for the poll, so I decided to list symptoms/traits that I have observed so I could then come up with my layman, armchair diagnosis...

I don't know actual clinical terms, so for example where I listed "pathological liar", the next thing that came to mind was that, to me, she always seems to be flirting and very seductive almost as if it is something she does pathologically so I listed it as "pathological seducer"...

But you are right, many of these traits/symptoms apart from the others would be considered normal... But in the context of trying to figure out the personality disorders of a murderer, and when put all together they paint a picture as to what her disorder could possibly be... She's definitely a hard one to figure out...

Personality drives behavior so I still think that most everything Jodi does, she does with a motive that may or may not be obvious to those around her. To me this has been apparent during the trial and especially during her press junket...

 

[Gecko100]

So which parts do I need to strengthen ...that score of mine that's 75%? How do I do that? The rest seem pretty close to equally balanced.

How can it help me to moderate with my opposites?

Please explain this Shadow thingy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The shadow is what we project on to others when under stress, it would look for you like a very immature ISTP. Your behaviour if unguarded could look very odd.
It's the same for all of us. You like to keep very very busy being around people so being alone might present a challenge. I think that score for 75 was for intuition, so you may need a bit more grounding and concreteness to your imagination of multiple possibilities, and implementations of ideas which you are good at. You keep to schedules and like to finish things quickly. People who are less interested in schedules and finishing might annoy and frustrate you enormously.
I don't know you so I can only speak in general terms,
I added a bit to the stuff above

 

[Archaea]

Wouldn't it be possible to beat the test? Wouldn't a psychopath/sociopath be able to test within a normal range? Maybe someone else could explain it better. Wasn't there an issue with Samuels and the PTSD test results?

 

[shelley921]

The shadow is what we project on to others when under stress, it would look for you like a very immature ISTP. Your behaviour if unguarded could look very odd.
It's the same for all of us. You like to keep very very busy being around people so being alone might present a challenge. I think that score for 75 was for intuition, so you may need a bit more grounding and concreteness to your imagination of multiple possibilities, and implementations of ideas which you are good at. You keep to schedules and like to finish things quickly. People who are less interested in schedules and finishing might annoy and frustrate you enormously.
I don't know you so I can only speak in general terms,
I added a bit to the stuff above

I thought the shadow is all the negative aspects of ourselves that we don't want to look at .. . . ???

 

[Gecko100]

Wouldn't it be possible to beat the test? Wouldn't a psychopath/sociopath be able to test within a normal range? Maybe someone else could explain it better. Wasn't there an issue with Samuels and the PTSD test results?

No, it's not a test like that, it only measures the strength of your preferred choices/strengths in dealing with the world, and there is no right or wrong or any reason to beat the test. It does not test for pathologies

 

[Linda7NJ]

The shadow is what we project on to others when under stress, it would look for you like a very immature ISTP. Your behaviour if unguarded could look very odd.
It's the same for all of us. You like to keep very very busy being around people so being alone might present a challenge. I think that score for 75 was for intuition, so you may need a bit more grounding and concreteness to your imagination of multiple possibilities, and implementations of ideas which you are good at. You keep to schedules and like to finish things quickly. People who are less interested in schedules and finishing might annoy and frustrate you enormously.
I don't know you so I can only speak in general terms,
I added a bit to the stuff above

See, that's where the whole thing falls apart for me. I am an only child and always make sure I get to spend alone time, i enjoy my time out and about and interacting with people as well. I am always on time and complete obligations on time. I don't like to rush or finish quickly. I don't care what other people do, if they are late or fail to complete tasks on time. What I care about is consideration. If you're gonna be late, call...can't finish, let me know.
Regarding comments later added to the prior post....I'm an atheist...so..I fail to see how I am not concrete, logical and don't believe in dreams, psychics, etc.
previously you mentioned the lateness and the more recent post contradicts what was stated in this one.

This seems a tad like a tarot card reading to me. IMO. (Another example of my logical and concrete thinking)

 

[Linda7NJ]

Wouldn't it be possible to beat the test? Wouldn't a psychopath/sociopath be able to test within a normal range? Maybe someone else could explain it better. Wasn't there an issue with Samuels and the PTSD test results?

Which test?

 

[molly333]

Wouldn't it be possible to beat the test? Wouldn't a psychopath/sociopath be able to test within a normal range? Maybe someone else could explain it better. Wasn't there an issue with Samuels and the PTSD test results?

No.

These tests have validity scales which tell the tester if the test taker is being truthful. It is a series of questions within the test that check and crosscheck by asking questions in different ways. It makes sure the person is not distorting their answers--checks for lying, distortion, or trying to look good or bad. This built in scale validates the test. Also, at 567 questions, they will not be able to remember how they answered a type of question an hour ago if they are lying. Finally, she was given the same test by different psychologists a year or two apart, so this really precludes remembering how she might have lied on the previous test. It's just not possible.

Plus different tests corroborate each other.


Dr. Geffner part 1
Jodi Arias Trial - Day 54 - Part 1 - YouTube

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Dr. D. is Dr. Demarte, the state psych.

I would think she would have loved to call Jodi a psychopath if she felt she could because all sympathy for jodi would fly out the window.

It is also something you would naturally be looking for in a murderer.

I can see where one might think that, myself, because she has some of the characteristics like low/no empathy. But, other key characteristics are missing.

High functioning autism is such an out of the blue diagnosis, I'm not sure anyone would think of it, and I doubt the tests would reveal it.

And, Jodi's verbal ability would mask it.

But, for me, it answers every question I have, all the symptoms she exhibits, but also including why the friends considered her weird and closed ranks on her, and why she could not handle the mixed signals being given to her by the man she thought she would marry one day.

Even the tv interviewer said tonight, something is "off." Nobody knows what they are looking at, but they can sense it.

Psychopaths, on the other hand, are masters at fitting in when they want to and nobody would notice.

But, the biggest giveaway is the stare.



IMO

I do not believe in high functioning autism (w exception of aspbergers). You don't need to try to convince me bc my views will not waver on this subject. So many awkward/socially destructive ppl come into practice saying "oh i believe I have some rare form of autism..." bc they are too lazy/narcissistic to admit that just maybe they are just a normal person who needs to buck up and learn proper social behavior through behavioral therapy. Most of them walk out the door to find another doc who will buy their "rare form of autism" story.

Some psychs believe rare forms of autism exist beyond aspbergers and some don't. I'm one of the psychs that believe a diagnosis of a highly functional autistic is not a diagnosis of Autism at all. But to each his own. All opinions.

I don't think she has some Rare form of autism.

 

[molly333]

I do not believe in high functioning autism (w exception of aspbergers). You don't need to try to convince me bc my views will not waver on this subject. So many awkward/socially destructive ppl come into practice saying "oh i believe I have some rare form of autism..." bc they are too lazy/narcissistic to admit that just maybe they are just a normal person who needs to buck up and learn proper social behavior through behavioral therapy. Most of them walk out the door to find another doc who will buy their "rare form of autism" story.

Some psychs believe rare forms of autism exist beyond aspbergers and some don't. I'm one of the psychs that believe a diagnosis of a highly functional autistic is not a diagnosis of Autism at all. But to each his own. All opinions.

I don't think she has some Rare form of autism.

You think she's a psychopath, right? Or borderline?

Then how do you explain her test scores?

This is an evolving area of study, so more will be known about it in future years than is known now, obviously. It is a type of brain damage which cannot yet be easily measured. But, it can be behaviorally observed.

"rare form of autism"--you have to admit, Jodi is one of a kind.

IMO

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

No.

These tests have validity scales which tell the tester if the test taker is being truthful. It is a series of questions within the test that check and crosscheck by asking questions in different ways. It makes sure the person is not distorting their answers--checks for lying, distortion, or trying to look good or bad. This built in scale validates the test. Also, at 567 questions, they will not be able to remember how they answered a type of question an hour ago if they are lying. Finally, she was given the same test by different psychologists a year or two apart, so this really precludes remembering how she might have lied on the previous test. It's just not possible.

Plus different tests corroborate each other.


Dr. Geffner part 1
Jodi Arias Trial - Day 54 - Part 1 - YouTube

And Gefner is full of it. He was cornered and held accountable for the multiple cases he was a hired gun in. JM pointed out even where judges had said is past trials that G had no credibility. If judges have deemed the man not credible, then so do I. So I assume his tests or what he chooses to expand upon on her tests are not credible.

 

[Linda7NJ]

No.

These tests have validity scales which tell the tester if the test taker is being truthful. It is a series of questions within the test that check and crosscheck by asking questions in different ways. It makes sure the person is not distorting their answers--checks for lying, distortion, or trying to look good or bad. This built in scale validates the test. Also, at 567 questions, they will not be able to remember how they answered a type of question an hour ago if they are lying. Finally, she was given the same test by different psychologists a year or two apart, so this really precludes remembering how she might have lied on the previous test. It's just not possible.

Plus different tests corroborate each other.


Dr. Geffner part 1
Jodi Arias Trial - Day 54 - Part 1 - YouTube

Validity scores are helpful and your right to a point.

However, if a person knows the symptoms of a particular desired diagnoses for example and remains consistent in their answers without going overboard the desired outcome can be achieved.

An example like...questions "are you truthful?"...sometimes, never, always.... and a person fills in the bubble for "always"....that shows the subject perhaps wants to present in a positive light and isn't being truthful. If the subject fills in the bubble "never" that would raise suspicions the subject again wasn't being honest and trying to manipulate the test.