Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[ATasteOfHoney]

Histrionics have Rage! Where did you read that they don't?
And trust me I am diagnosed borderline so I would know the difference.

Again histrionic PD is many times confused with borderline PD (they are right next to eachother on the B cluster)

and many psychs are beginning to believe that HPD and BPD are manifested from the same dysfunction - and that HPD is just the more Narcissistic form.

Histrionic personality involves conspicuous attention seeking. (MIL + BIL)

Affected people are also overly conscious of appearance and are dramatic. (MIL + BIL)

Their expression of emotions often seems exaggerated, childish, and superficial.* (MIL + BIL)

Still, they frequently evoke sympathetic or erotic attention from others.* (MIL + BIL)

Relationships are often easily established and overly sexualized but tend to be superficial and transient.*
*
Behind their seductive behaviors and their tendency to exaggerate somatic problems (ie, hypochondriasis [see Table 1: Personality Disorders: Coping Mechanisms]) often lie more basic wishes for dependency and protection.* (BIL)

BBM: 2 HIP----->rage is not on your own list of symptoms of HPD that you posted (post #377). About the BPD; sorry to hear that but I bet you are high-functioning and have had treatment unlike our profoundly affected JA.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Add these two names to your list:
1) V65.2 Malingering
Wiki says: In medicine, malingering is fabricating or exaggerating the symptoms of mental or physical disorders for a variety of "secondary gain" motives, which may include financial compensation (often tied to fraud); avoiding school, work or military service; obtaining drugs; getting lighter criminal sentences; or simply to attract attention or sympathy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malingering

2) Schizoid Personality Disorder or Secret Schizoid
People with SPD are often aloof, cold and indifferent, which causes interpersonal difficulty. Most individuals diagnosed with SPD have trouble establishing personal relationships or expressing their feelings in a meaningful way. They may remain passive in the face of unfavorable situations. Their communication with other people may be indifferent and concise at times. Because of their lack of meaningful communication with other people, those who are diagnosed with SPD are not able to develop accurate images of how well they get along with others.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder blushing:

Do you believe someone is so narcissistic and in denial of their own poor actions that they become a "secret schizoid" and creates false memories that she actually believes as a coping mechanism to assuage her own grandiose sense of self?

 

[dhunter]

Do you believe someone is so narcissistic and in denial of their own poor actions that they become a "secret schizoid" and creates false memories that she actually believes as a coping mechanism to assuage her own grandiose sense of self?

I was mainly referring to her ability to present a seemingly engaged communication style when in reality, she is anything but. Her 'poised' interviews are little more than an act.

additionally wiki lists this rather fitting description of this disorder:
Harry Guntrip[24] describes the "secret sexual affair" entered into by some schizoid individuals as an attempt to reduce the quantity of emotional intimacy focused within a single relationship, a sentiment echoed by Karen Horney's "resigned personality" who may exclude sex as "too intimate for a permanent relationship, and instead satisfy his sexual needs with a stranger. Conversely he may more or less restrict a relationship to merely sexual contacts and not share other experiences with the partner."[25] Jeffrey Seinfeld, professor of social work at New York University, has published a volume on SPD[26] that details examples of "schizoid hunger" which may manifest as sexual promiscuity. Seinfeld provides an example of a schizoid woman who would covertly attend various bars to meet men for the purposes of gaining impersonal sexual gratification, an act which alleviated her feelings of hunger and emptiness.

Schizoid personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Travis writes about her using him sexually but impersonally, like a ___________with a heartbeat. They also maintained this long distance relationship and only saw each other once or twice a month before she moved to AZ. I am no expert but these descriptions seemed to match some of her behavioral traits.

 

[Emmi]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beaglemania
These are not normal adolescent behaviors. Daryl Brewer is not a clinician. I would liken him to more of a "broken individual" who fell hard and fast in love with a manipulative, self-absorbed harlett. In otherwords he was p-whipped.

[/I]

There was no sexist-double standards implied or otherwise in my post. It could have easily applied conversely to a female falling "hard and fast in love etc". I didn't say anything about Jodi's promiscuity or other sexual behavior at all. If you gleaned some sort of sexist undertone in my post, then I can only assume that it is your personal bias coming through. I hope this is crystal clear.

I didn't think there was any sexism implied; I though it was blatant. And I'm quite clear--crystal clear--that "harlot" means a sexually promiscuous woman, that it's pejorative, and from days long past, and that it does not ever apply to a man, "p-whipped" or otherwise. Of course, you may have meant something very different by "harlett," but I don't know that word, and assumed it was simply a spelling error.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

BBM: 2 HIP----->rage is not on your own list of symptoms of HPD that you posted. About the BPD; sorry to hear that but I bet you are high-functioning and have had treatment unlike our profoundly affected JA.

I should phrase it this way. The Borferline has sudden outbursts of rage. Jodi never showed issues of this problem around Travis's friends. If anything they said she was trying to act like a robot or "stepford wife".

As a borderline, I couldn't put up with being someone's whipping girl for one second. I would get pissed and everyone would know it and I'd make sure everyone knew he expected to "victimize me".

I think she does have borderline tendencies, but I think her narcissism is her prime malfunction (lol I always loved the phrase "whats your malfunction?!")

She is a Sociopath wrapped in a blanket of BPD and HPD (probably the whole damn B cluster, too!)

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I was mainly referring to her ability to present a seemingly engaged communication style when in reality, she is anything but. Her 'poised' interviews are little more than an act.

additionally wiki lists this rather fitting description of this disorder:
Harry Guntrip[24] describes the "secret sexual affair" entered into by some schizoid individuals as an attempt to reduce the quantity of emotional intimacy focused within a single relationship, a sentiment echoed by Karen Horney's "resigned personality" who may exclude sex as "too intimate for a permanent relationship, and instead satisfy his sexual needs with a stranger. Conversely he may more or less restrict a relationship to merely sexual contacts and not share other experiences with the partner."[25] Jeffrey Seinfeld, professor of social work at New York University, has published a volume on SPD[26] that details examples of "schizoid hunger" which may manifest as sexual promiscuity. Seinfeld provides an example of a schizoid woman who would covertly attend various bars to meet men for the purposes of gaining impersonal sexual gratification, an act which alleviated her feelings of hunger and emptiness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder

Travis writes about her using him sexually but impersonally, like a ___________with a heartbeat. They also maintained this long distance relationship and only saw each other once or twice a month before she moved to AZ. I am no expert but these descriptions seemed to match some of her behavioral traits.

No I mean I completely agree with you! I do think she developed schizotypal elements as a result of her mental illness. It's part of the whole "imagining you are closer to someone than you really are"... That delusion.

 

[SMK]

This makes complete sense now as the number one way of knowing your being baited by a narcissist is they agree and like all the same things you do... To an exaggerated extent. Everything you like, they say "OMG me too!". At first it seems a match made in heaven, and then the narcissists mask starts to crack and you realize they faked their interests/personality just to get your trust/affection.

ugh.....all too true....I have experienced this first hand, and it is a dreadful, rude awakening when it finally dawns on you that none of it was ever real. Frightening, indeed.

 

[molly333]

So far we know of the many masks of Jodi in order from most recent to last.

The Nerdy Abuse "Victim"
The Wannabe Mormon Madonna
The blonde bombshell and trophy/stepford wife
The little sexualized bad girl with pigtails
The sexy "bubbly" promo girl for a car company
The Artist and Legend in her own mind

In other words, an extreme example of no core sense of self, which would dovetail with the low self esteem and passivity she scores. What disorders have such an extreme? The self is an external construct which depends on the context for its sense of life because it is created for the context. Take away the context and there is nothing inside. Might be a terrifying feeling. Or maybe not--can you miss something you never had?

The words cut off from emotion is what everyone is complaining about tonight on HLN. And, trying to make sense of the words is like trying to grab at air--it looks like something is there until your hand comes up empty. There's nothing there.

A therapist on Nancy Grace tonight called her mentally ill. Anyone notice she is getting younger by the day? Last night she looked ten years younger and today in court she looked like a girl in highschool.



Members of the Jury must have noticed these things, too, and for that very reason be reluctant to impose the DP on someone so obviously impaired..


"Hyperscanning" Study Reveals Impaired Sense of Self in Autism


Scientists last week reported an exciting innovation for autism research in a study that scanned the brains of people with autism during social interactions. The study, funded in part by Autism Speaks, revealed a reduced brain signal in people with autism that might be related to their sense of self. The study appeared as the cover article in the high-profile journal Neuron, and heralds a new tool for understanding why individuals with autism have difficulty in social interactions.

http://www.autismspeaks.org/science...ning-study-reveals-impaired-sense-self-autism

 

[Gecko100]

Aren't I an "N" type?

I'm very closed off.

Yes you might be, but the J part makes you close off too early if it is not tempered with a developed P.
J=decision making and organisation, but decision making might need more information before closing off too early.
P=deferring decision making sometimes closing off too late if not tempered with developed J.

These areas are guided by our middle letters of thinking or feeling = T/F
and sensing and intuition = S/iN
Because you are a J type, your decisions are made by extraverted feeling and then intuition.
As a P, my decision making is introverted thinking but extraverted intuition. Not the different spelling of extroversion.

I might look very silly to the average person who can open doors and do practical things, that's my intuition showing, because I am very involved in the inner world of systems and theories, and more information to me builds better theories.
So closing off is very natural to you, like using your right hand if you are right handed. Waiting for more information is like using your left hand until you get used to it. You are involved in an extraverted world of feeling and judging or decision making. (not being pejoratively judging in the classical sense)
My opposite type is ESFJ, which makes me 'write' left handed until I exercise it fully.
Our job in life is to appreciate the gifts and strengths of the opposite, to make us whole people via our gifts to each other.
It's a beautiful metaphor whatever type you are because it strengthens all of our gifts.
Neither is right or wrong, just different in approaches, and varying levels of how we make sense of the the world from our own unique perspectives.
Your type is dynamic and charismatic, but can be a bit pushy. (not being critical it's in the literature) They often make good leaders in humanitarian fields, based on firmly held values.

 

[Nancy_Drew]

I thought I would make a list of the personality disorder "symptoms" that Jodi has since she really has a blend of a few different personality disorders. If you want, please add to it so we can put all of our observations together for a cumulative armchair diagnoses:

Everything Jodi does is carefully schemed and has a motive and/or ulterior motive.
Everything she says is carefully schemed and motive and/or ulterior motive.
She does not have normal emotions, and is incapable of feeling emotions for others.
The emotions she does feel are only for herself and are random and completely out of context, (i.e feeling "betrayed" by the jury, or "abused" because a boyfriend wants to break up with you).
She has selective and distorted memory.
She has a distorted perception of reality.
She has a distorted perception of past events.
She has a distorted perception of the motives and actions of others.
She is a pathological liar.
She a pathological seducer.
She uses big words and forced poise to help conceal the real Jodi.
She has a false front, and will go to any extreme to make sure that the true Jodi isn't exposed.
If someone exposes the real Jodi, or if she feels threatened that someone might reveal the real Jodi she will sabotage and character assassinate (or murder) them so no one will believe them if they reveal the true Jodi.
She is unable to maintain long term relationships.
She is irresponsible with money and belongings.
She thinks she is smarter than everyone.
She thinks every guy "wants" her.
She is extremely envious and jealous.
She is extremely concerned about the way others perceive her, and this is why she is doing all the interviews. She wants to clear up the way she appeared during the trial while she was "exposing Travis for who he really was", which she was forced to do by Juan Martinez... Of course Jodi didn't want to go to trial.
She is unable to accept responsibility for anything, everything is someone else's fault.
She is always the victim.
Everything she does can be explained away by a series of totally random coincidences.
Everybody is out to get her.
She is capable of extreme rage when threatened to be exposed.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

In other words, an extreme example of no core sense of self, which would dovetail with the low self esteem and passivity she scores. What disorders have such an extreme? The self is an external construct which depends on the context for its sense of life because it is created for the context. Take away the context and there is nothing inside. Might be a terrifying feeling. Or maybe not--can you miss something you never had?

The words cut off from emotion is what everyone is complaining about tonight on HLN. And, trying to make sense of the words is like trying to grab at air--it looks like something is there until your hand comes up empty. There's nothing there.

A therapist on Nancy Grace tonight called her mentally ill. Anyone notice she is getting younger by the day? Last night she looked ten years younger and today in court she looked like a girl in highschool.



Members of the Jury must have noticed these things, too, and for that very reason be reluctant to impose the DP on someone so obviously impaired..


"Hyperscanning" Study Reveals Impaired Sense of Self in Autism


Scientists last week reported an exciting innovation for autism research in a study that scanned the brains of people with autism during social interactions. The study, funded in part by Autism Speaks, revealed a reduced brain signal in people with autism that might be related to their sense of self. The study appeared as the cover article in the high-profile journal Neuron, and heralds a new tool for understanding why individuals with autism have difficulty in social interactions.

http://www.autismspeaks.org/science...ning-study-reveals-impaired-sense-self-autism

No, she has no sense of self or emotions or empathy because she is a sociopath.

And she wears masks because they are her way of manipulating people socially to her benefit. This is a prime symptom of sociopaths. What autistic individual can turn on/off emotions and mannerisms and personalities at will?

 

[Nancy_Drew]

I should phrase it this way. The Borferline has sudden outbursts of rage. Jodi never showed issues of this problem around Travis's friends. If anything they said she was trying to act like a robot or "stepford wife".

As a borderline, I couldn't put up with being someone's whipping girl for one second. I would get pissed and everyone would know it and I'd make sure everyone knew he expected to "victimize me".

I think she does have borderline tendencies, but I think her narcissism is her prime malfunction (lol I always loved the phrase "whats your malfunction?!")

She is a Sociopath wrapped in a blanket of BPD and HPD (probably the whole damn B cluster, too!)

You are right... I don't think she has sudden outburst either...however, I think she is capable of EXtREME rage when she feels threatend by someone that she is going to be exposed...

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I thought I would make a list of the personality disorder "symptoms" that Jodi has since she really has a blend of a few different personality disorders. Please add to it so we can put all of our observations together for a cumulative armchair diagnoses:

Everything Jodi does is carefully schemed and has a motive and/or ulterior motive.
Everything she says is carefully schemed and motive and/or ulterior motive.
She does not have normal emotions, and is incapable of feeling emotions for others.
The emotions she does feel are only for herself and are random and completely out of context, (i.e feeling "betrayed" by the jury, or "abused" because a boyfriend wants to break up with you).
She has selective and distorted memory.
She has a distorted perception of reality.
She has a distorted perception of past events.
She has a distorted perception of the motives and actions of others.
She is a pathological liar.
She a pathological seducer.
She uses big words and forced poise to help conceal the real Jodi.
She has a false front, and will go to any extreme to make sure that the true Jodi isn't exposed.
If someone exposes the real Jodi, or if she feels threatened that someone might reveal the real Jodi she will sabotage and character assassinate (or murder) them so no one will believe them if they reveal the true Jodi.
She is unable to maintain long term relationships.
She is irresponsible with money and belongings.
She thinks she is smarter than everyone.
She thinks every guy "wants" her.
She is extremely envious and jealous.
She is extremely concerned about the way others perceive her, and this is why she is doing all the interviews. She wants to clear up the way she appeared during the trial while she was "exposing Travis for who he really was", which she was forced to do by Juan Martinez... Of course Jodi didn't want to go to trial.
She is unable to accept responsibility for anything, everything is someone else's fault.
She is always the victim.
Everything she does can be explained away by a series of totally random coincidences.
Everybody is out to get her.
She is capable of extreme rage when threatened to be exposed.

I think Travis was speaking to us from the dead when he said in his text to Jodi one month before she murdered him:

05/26/08 0914 Outgoing: You are a sociopath. You only cry for yourself (Narcissist). You have never cared about me (sociopath) and you have betrayed me (sociopath) worse than any example I could conjour you are sick and you have scamed me.

 

[molly333]

No, she has no sense of self or emotions or empathy because she is a sociopath.

And she wears masks because they are her way of manipulating people socially to her benefit. This is a prime symptom of sociopaths. What autistic individual can turn on/off emotions and mannerisms and personalities at will?

Not one of the 6 or 7 professionals who looked at her and/or her test scores called her a sociopath. NOT ONE.

Don't you think the young Dr. D. would have called her a sociopath if she could? She would have jumped at the diagnosis with both feet. She didn't because she couldn't.

Normal--Normal--Normal--that's what her test scores said, except on issues of anxiety where they were off the charts.

IMO

 

[Nancy_Drew]

I think Travis was speaking to us from the dead when he said in his text to Jodi one month before she murdered him:

05/26/08 0914 Outgoing: You are a sociopath. You only cry for yourself (Narcissist). You have never cared about me (sociopath) and you have betrayed me (sociopath) worse than any example I could conjour you are sick and you have scamed me.

Totally!! That for me was so telling... And now everyone else is seeing what Travis saw... and feeling the severe FRUSTRATION that she provokes... Poor Travis.. We've only had a small dose of Jodi...imagine how he must have felt!!!

It was actually one of the first interviews that Jodi did before the trial that very clearly alerted me to the fact that she was a sociopath and totally LOOPIE!! ...ever since then I have been glued to the case... I was so worried that no one was going to figure it out that she was a sociopath... So I watched and prayed...

Then when the text messages came into evidence I was so glad and it all made sense to me. I really believe Jodi's motive for murder was fear of being exposed.

I believe this because I have experienced this personaly from a sociopath I had in my life for a short while. I simply tried to pull away from the friendship because I didn't like some of the things that this person was involved with, and that was enough to send them into a rage, and a full sabotage on my character...etc...the things this person did to try and destroy me were horrific but thankfully she wasn't able to really do any damage... But they did threaten our lives at one point if we ever said anything... I am still afraid of this person sometimes...I get the feeling they are watching me and even driving by my house sometimes... It's so creepy...

 

[Nancy_Drew]

Not one of the 6 or 7 professionals who looked at her and/or her test scores called her a sociopath. NOT ONE.

Don't you think the young Dr. D. would have called her a sociopath if she could? She would have jumped at the diagnosis with both feet. She didn't because she couldn't.

Normal--Normal--Normal--that's what her test scores said, except on issues of anxiety where they were off the charts.

IMO

I think Jodi knew how to answer to throw off the test scores...

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

She customizes who she is to match whatever the surroundings (environment) are or who she wants to make people think she is. (I think I learned that from Dr. DeMarte...)

 

[karenz]

Sometimes I think "just plain evil" should be a category in the DSMiv

That being said, in my field of work, I worked with many people w/mh disorders. I have worked w/antisocials and schizo and psychotics who told me they were wondering what my head would look cut off BUT the absolute hardest ppl are the borderlines bec they are so good at being on the "edge" of normalcy and their manipulations are so meandering and conniving... They get under your skin before you even know it. So Scary that I would take any other mh disorder over bpd 's

 

[molly333]

I think Jodi knew how to answer to throw off the test scores...

Dr. Geffner said that was virtually impossible. These tests have up to 500 questions, some were given to her twice over a period of years, the same question is asked in different ways to keep track of people trying to cheat.

It's just not possible.

IMO

 

[karenz]

BTW-great book a called the "The Sociopath Next Door" - all about the CMja's of the world