Post Any Dateline Discussions Here!

[Tadpole12]

In case anyone wants to read Lin Wood's tweets from last night without having to scroll through all of his political commentary:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/p8x7884mul8bmya/Lin_Wood.rar
The pictures are ordered oldest to newest.

Here are some of Lin Wood's claims re: Dateline
- Says "other suspects had lower scores" with their handwriting than Patsy "on a scale of 1-5 with 5 being elimination" where she scored "4 - 4.5".
- No voices on tape, "Patsy clearly hung up wall phone."
- "no definitive finding of pineapple from autopsy," "it could not be determined to be pineapple", "said 'pineapple like' substance", "The 'pineapple like' substance found in autopsy was never identified" (man, he hates this pineapple)
- "I have sworn court testimony that totally contradicts this statement by Jane Harmer & exposes her as a liar."
- "ZERO pathology" in Ramsey family, "just loving parents."
- Pitt is "incompetent" because she died by strangulation, not blow to the head. (I don't even remember him disputing that.)
- "Alleged grand jury testimony just broadcast attributed to Burke about 911 call is totally fraudulent. He NEVER said it."
- "Your show relies on biased sources like Brennan, Pitt, Harmer & Walker" and didn't spend enough time on the DNA.
- Repeatedly calls Steve Thomas "incompetent."
- "She fell asleep in car on way home & was carried to bedroom by her father"
- Chris Wolf was a male stripper and his case against the Ramseys was frivolous (lol)
- "NO evidence of bedwetting that night"
- Linda Arndt suggested the search and "Friend* suggested start in basement." He doesn't say Fleet but obviously that's who he means.
- "Charlie Brennan anti-Ramsey from Day 1. Knowingly published numerous police lies. No credibility."
- "Tabloid TV for ratings. I saw it coming & declined interview request."
- "I declined to participate when producer suggested Burke would be discussed as suspect."
- "No member of Ramsey Family had Hi-Tec boots. Nor did police."
- "Mistake was relying on Brennan, Harmer, Pitt & Walker. 3 of which had NO direct involvement in investigation. Speculation."
- "The DNA that exonerated Ramseys was certified as not contaminated or artifact."
- "It is false and offensive to describe the Ramseys as nonchalant."
- "Patsy heavily medicated at time of CNN interview in 1996. Friends urged them to do it. John rarely shows emotion publicly." "At the time, others advised them to do interview as they were trying to get police to do proper investigation."
- Kolar is a "whack job."
- "I have some ideas on possible suspects but will not publicly discuss."
- "The grand jury finding was nonsensical. And uninformed by DNA. Boulder PD wanted murder charge. Grand jury said no." "Plus after 18 months, GJ likely felt pressured to give PD something as compromise to go home. But not murder."
- Pageant stuff was normal, "JonBenet video enhanced by tabloids."

I also included a few tweets from the producer Lin Wood was tweeting at all night. He makes sure to mention that none of the investigators they talked to thought Burke was responsible.

Thanks for compiling that info, DFF
- "I have sworn court testimony that totally contradicts this statement by Jane Harmer & exposes her as a liar."
- "Alleged grand jury testimony just broadcast attributed to Burke about 911 call is totally fraudulent. He NEVER said it."

 

[IndianPaintbrush]

It was disappointing how Dateline never mentioned Kolar's theory about Burke's train track, and how it matched JBR's abrasions more than than a stun gun. This is a significant piece of evidence I wish more people knew about.

 

[Yvettea]

I was struck by how little the parents seemed to care who hurt and killed Jon Benet.

 

[BOESP]

What if by the time JonBenet was found it was extremely obvious that she was dead? That's what I assume must be the case for these parents not to seek medical help.

That's a good question. I tend to think even if they thought she was dead they would still call 911 hoping something could be done to resuscitate JonBenet. I really don't understand it.

 

[IndianPaintbrush]

That's a good question. I tend to think even if they thought she was dead they would still call 911 hoping something could be done to resuscitate JonBenet. I really don't understand it.

I buy it when I look at PR. A mother who had a lot invested in this image of the perfect, photogenic family. One that did not include an "abnormal" son who may have caused his sister's death. But I also think PR loved her children fiercely and made a decision she really believed at the time was in BR's best interest.

 

[InstantProof]

The thing that strikes me, is that JR voluntarily gave the detective (Patterson) both his and PR's writing tablets. He specifically told the cop that one is his and one is PR's. A massive blunder for a man described as being nervous but in control that morning. I am becoming more firm in the belief that PR accidentally killed her daughter, staged the scene (including actually killing her with the garrot in the process), and that JR took charge in true alpha-male,CEO fashion. That he continued with the fabrications to protect themselves and their son. Self preservation is natural.

Sadly, I also believe he'd been molesting JBR and that, in the sometimes strange way of a marriage, the two of them made a silent deal - most likely never even spoken aloud between the two. John had molested and Patsy had killed. They were both guilty, but neither crime could be definitively proven. To prevent further catastrophic damage to their lives, they defended themselves the only way they knew how - through high priced/powered attorneys and a public campaign of denials, minimizations and distractions via surrogates and the media.

I'm always suspicious of people who are so outspoken about their faith, and they used that to their full advantage. Because God forgives, even if you don't ask for forgiveness until the moment right before your death.

I agree with everything. This is the conclusion I came to after watching Dateline. I think misdirected anger was taken out on JB. John had to go along with what he must have thought was a ridiculous scheme.

 

[Madeleine74]

That's a good question. I tend to think even if they thought she was dead they would still call 911 hoping something could be done to resuscitate JonBenet. I really don't understand it.

Because with calling 911 would come police investigation. A little girl (or anyone) can't be bashed in the head without some 'splainin to do. The Ramsey's obviously didn't want anyone to know what happened, who did it, why, and then have to be held (or have their son held) accountable. They went into self-protection mode. The fear of what would come, the arrest(s), the prosecution, the very possibility of jail time had to be something they thought about. Why else would anyone go to such trouble to stage a crime scene to try and make it look like someone else did this? Simple: to avoid the consequences, which would surely rain down.

JBR's head injury was fatal in and of itself (or would be). Could she have possibly been saved? Possibly and then been a vegetable. It was a very serious life-threatening/life ending injury. That's not a justification, it's just the level of head injury she sustained. She was pretty much a goner (or would be within an hour).

 

[passionflower]

That's a good question. I tend to think even if they thought she was dead they would still call 911 hoping something could be done to resuscitate JonBenet. I really don't understand it.

forgive me, but a disabled, brain damaged beauty queen...............with signs of molestation would not fit into the lifestyle...............or a family disgrace............JMOO

 

[johnjay]

Patsy was dead by age 50, so she got some kind of Karmic justice for her part.

JR is looked at with great disdain (and he knows it), and isn't the respected businessman he once was.

BR is either a puppet by his parents or he did something really heinous that night and has been buffered from legal/criminal channels. Either way he's forever tied to a story that hasn't lost much steam in 20 years and he'll always be 'that kid who probably knows more than he's saying.'

So I suppose some measure of justice has occurred, although not the kind people wanted, which was a perp walk and criminal prosecution and being thrown in prison for life.

Burke was too young to be held criminally responsible. It's unclear what would have happened if he admitted to doing it and no cover-up was attempted. Perhaps the parents would have faced a reckless endangerment charge as per the non signed indictment.

Perhaps that would make an interesting new thread question. If Kolar is right, what would have been appropriate justice if A) there was no cover-up and B) the situation that unfolded?

 

[Madeleine74]

I doubt the Ramsey parents knew at the time of the head bash that their son (if he was the one who did it) was too young to be held criminally accountable or perhaps they had a valid fear he'd be removed from their home and put into some kind of juvenile detention system or psychiatric hospital. And, they'd have to have asked an attorney to find out, which they didn't, because they went ahead and staged the crime scene right then and there, throughout the night.

And if it wasn't BR who did it, if it was PR, well... she would have landed in prison.

 

[cattlekate]

link =

http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/video/burke-s-version-of-the-story-761687107687

This link also allows one to watch the Dateline show without commercials or a cable subscription. Just click on the JBR Dateline photo and download the nbc app.

It was a pretty good documentary, given the limited program time. It was great they interviewed the 911 operator and mentioned LE still refuses to release the enhanced audio.

 

[Madeleine74]

I agree Dateline did a good job. They had limited air time (about 84 minutes, after taking out commercial breaks), so they weren't going to be able to get in every item of evidence or every nugget of insight. They hit the highlights as best they could. For those who want to dig deep(er) there are many good books available that detail the investigation, the evidence, etc, etc.

 

[BBB167893]

Yeah, it depends on whether you believe Patsy was involved in the strangling. JonBenet appeared dead after the head strike, but presumably she still had a pulse and why wouldn't Patsy make sure of that? But Kolar implies that the person who hit her over the head was the same person who strangled her. That would suggest that Patsy didn't discover JonBenet until she was in fact dead.

The big mystery for me is how much JR knew and when. I think it's possible he knew nothing until he saw the ransom note.

Maybe she did check for a pulse, IndianPaintbrush, but JonBenet was in shock to the point where she couldn't detect it. Add to that Patsy's mind would not have been completely calm while doing it.

 

[BBB167893]

Yikes, given the state of our justice system a lot of the time I don't even want to consider that. Did Colorado have the death penalty at the time?

Yes, it did.

 

[midwest mama]

I know Smit's theory, and I agree with you...it's hogwash. But were fibers from the duvet cover found on the body? I've never read that anywhere that I can recall. I think I would have remember that.

I recall there was reference made to duvet fibers being found on JBs shirt. Cannot provide info source....have read so much over the years that sources have become a blur. Do not ever recall fibers reported on "body", just SHIRT.

BTW, does anyone know when and where the still shot of JR getting into the white van, which was shown during the Dateline show, was taken? He had on tan pants and a light colored Oxford shirt, and wasn't that what he was reported to be wearing when law enforcement showed up the morning of Dec 26th? Could that have been the van used to take him to the Ferries, or was it to take him somewhere at another place and time?

The reason I ask, is because it looks like he has a medal around his neck. He has told the story of Pam P going in and miraculously picking up JBs medal, which JB had given him after a pageant, then returning it to him. He says he always carries it on him. He couldn't have had it around his neck, then, if that's a photo of him getting in the transport van on the 26th, so it must be of another time and place. Unless JR is mistaken about Pam finding it during her trip to the house?

 

[BBB167893]

Hi SD, excellent post, much to ponder there. I do need to ask a quick Q: in the part I highlighted above - what do you mean by "patsy's slings taken apart"? That is not ringing a bell to me at all. Slings? TIA

Oh, that's a subject that pops up every now and then around here. The idea is that Patsy had slings to carry her paintings around. To quote my friend BOESP: It is very common to use "duct" tape and a slick-type cord (such as parachute cord) to wrap, roll, and/or bind and back paintings for travel or protection, particularly oil paintings. They are a part of most every painter's kit I've seen, along with masking tape or draftsman's tape. They are used at the time you carry them or for temporarily mounting paintings, or for carrying heavy canvas. It's not something necessarily prepared ahead of time. Oil paintings, in particular, can be temporarily mounted using the duct tape and brown paper and a simple display frame.

So, my thinking goes, if she had one laying around with her art supplies, all they'd have to do was take it apart and they'd have cord for use.

p.s. when I first read your post, I sent you a few slices of Chicago pizza via WS remote.

DEE-licious!

 

[BBB167893]

In case anyone wants to read Lin Wood's tweets from last night without having to scroll through all of his political commentary:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/p8x7884mul8bmya/Lin_Wood.rar
The pictures are ordered oldest to newest.

Here are some of Lin Wood's claims re: Dateline
- Says "other suspects had lower scores" with their handwriting than Patsy "on a scale of 1-5 with 5 being elimination" where she scored "4 - 4.5".
- No voices on tape, "Patsy clearly hung up wall phone."
- "no definitive finding of pineapple from autopsy," "it could not be determined to be pineapple", "said 'pineapple like' substance", "The 'pineapple like' substance found in autopsy was never identified" (man, he hates this pineapple)
- "I have sworn court testimony that totally contradicts this statement by Jane Harmer & exposes her as a liar."
- "ZERO pathology" in Ramsey family, "just loving parents."
- Pitt is "incompetent" because she died by strangulation, not blow to the head. (I don't even remember him disputing that.)
- "Alleged grand jury testimony just broadcast attributed to Burke about 911 call is totally fraudulent. He NEVER said it."
- "Your show relies on biased sources like Brennan, Pitt, Harmer & Walker" and didn't spend enough time on the DNA.
- Repeatedly calls Steve Thomas "incompetent."
- "She fell asleep in car on way home & was carried to bedroom by her father"
- Chris Wolf was a male stripper and his case against the Ramseys was frivolous (lol)
- "NO evidence of bedwetting that night"
- Linda Arndt suggested the search and "Friend* suggested start in basement." He doesn't say Fleet but obviously that's who he means.
- "Charlie Brennan anti-Ramsey from Day 1. Knowingly published numerous police lies. No credibility."
- "Tabloid TV for ratings. I saw it coming & declined interview request."
- "I declined to participate when producer suggested Burke would be discussed as suspect."
- "No member of Ramsey Family had Hi-Tec boots. Nor did police."
- "Mistake was relying on Brennan, Harmer, Pitt & Walker. 3 of which had NO direct involvement in investigation. Speculation."
- "The DNA that exonerated Ramseys was certified as not contaminated or artifact."
- "It is false and offensive to describe the Ramseys as nonchalant."
- "Patsy heavily medicated at time of CNN interview in 1996. Friends urged them to do it. John rarely shows emotion publicly." "At the time, others advised them to do interview as they were trying to get police to do proper investigation."
- Kolar is a "whack job."
- "I have some ideas on possible suspects but will not publicly discuss."
- "The grand jury finding was nonsensical. And uninformed by DNA. Boulder PD wanted murder charge. Grand jury said no." "Plus after 18 months, GJ likely felt pressured to give PD something as compromise to go home. But not murder."
- Pageant stuff was normal, "JonBenet video enhanced by tabloids."

I also included a few tweets from the producer Lin Wood was tweeting at all night. He makes sure to mention that none of the investigators they talked to thought Burke was responsible.

I'd be quite happy not giving this...SCUM any more publicity.

 

[BBB167893]

The thing that strikes me, is that JR voluntarily gave the detective (Patterson) both his and PR's writing tablets. He specifically told the cop that one is his and one is PR's. A massive blunder for a man described as being nervous but in control that morning. I am becoming more firm in the belief that PR accidentally killed her daughter, staged the scene (including actually killing her with the garrot in the process), and that JR took charge in true alpha-male,CEO fashion. That he continued with the fabrications to protect themselves and their son. Self preservation is natural.

Sadly, I also believe he'd been molesting JBR and that, in the sometimes strange way of a marriage, the two of them made a silent deal - most likely never even spoken aloud between the two. John had molested and Patsy had killed. They were both guilty, but neither crime could be definitively proven. To prevent further catastrophic damage to their lives, they defended themselves the only way they knew how - through high priced/powered attorneys and a public campaign of denials, minimizations and distractions via surrogates and the media.

I'm always suspicious of people who are so outspoken about their faith, and they used that to their full advantage. Because God forgives, even if you don't ask for forgiveness until the moment right before your death.

That's exactly my take on it, YouWho. Killing someone together isn't like taking a bus ride: you can't get off at different stops. You have to ride all the way to the end of the line, and it's a one-way trip, and the last stop is the cemetery.

 

[BBB167893]

I was struck by how little the parents seemed to care who hurt and killed Jon Benet.

Join the club, Han. instead of talking about all the things she'd never be able to enjoy now, they were talking about how she was better off dead!

 

[BBB167893]

There was something else I wanted to mention. near the end of the show, Ron Walker questioned Alex Hunter's decision to quash the indictment. His exact words were, "what was alex hunter trying to hide here?" Well, I've had the idea on and off that Hunter was hiding more than mere incompetence. I'm thinking he had something in back of him he was terrified would come out if this case went to trial. What that might be, I have no idea. Maybe something involving one of his other cases, a deal or the like. What are everyone else's ideas?